Cristiano Ronaldo

[Snake Plissken]

Compare his team to the team of the only other player scoring anywhere near the same amount, Messi. Barcelona certainly has better team than Madrid which is built around Messi to the same or greater extent than Madrid is Ronaldo. I don't think anyone's said Ronaldos team mates 'aren't that good' but they definitely aren't as good as Messi's or Ribery's. I think it was a small observation in the face of some strange Ronaldo criticisms which you seemed to have jumped on.

Fact is, Ronaldo doesn't play in an especially great team in relative terms, this Madrid team isn't on the level of Barcelona, Bayern or his previous Utd team, but he still scores and produces an awful lot. The Madrid team is good, but is it any better than some of the teams that the other football greats have played in? Probably not. Yet you seem to be intent on telling us that Madrid has a great team and are great team mates for Ronaldo which obviously benefits him, but this is true of so many players, past and present that it's makes it seem really odd for you to keep going on about it in relation to Ronaldo.

totally disagree with the bolded bit. You've basically get Iniesta who hasn't kicked his own arse in months. After that you're struggling, at various points in the last couple of years Ronaldo's had Benzema, Ozil, Higuain and Di Maria all on red hot form. It's hard to remember another player really stepping up for Barca other than Iniesta on the odd occasion, they've by and large been pretty guff when it's came to the crunch games, particularly because of that dreadful defence.

When you look at the number of goals Ronaldo gets laid on a plate for him I think it's hard to suggest his supporting act is anything other than brilliant, it's not as if he's digging his team out with individual goals on a regular basis.

 

[Skorenzy]

We had that discussion before in the Ballon d'Or thread, Sneijder wasn't even the best player in Inter's treble winning side, Milito was and Milito actually won the UEFA player of the year award just like Ribery did this season. Sneijder only came into the Ballon d'Or discussion because he scored crucial goals for the Netherlands on their way to the world cup final, not because he was the standout player for club and country throughout the year. He also had an incredibly bad start to the new season with Inter loosing the European Supercup and being shit in the league, while Ribery is brilliant this season and actually scored the very important equaliser in the European Supercup and helped Bayern win it. I don't think Sneijder not winning it is comparable with Ribery this year, whether he wins it or not. Back then I said, all of Sneijder, Messi and Xavi would have been deserved winner, I would have given it Xavi personally, he deserved a Ballon d'Or, most people in the discussions on the Caf thought Sneijder deserved it, if I remember correctly. I didn't mind Messi winning it though. Same as this year, I don't mind if Messi or Ronaldo win it, or even Ibra, that would be funny as well (though I'd call him an undeserved winner, but well, still funny).

I agree. There is ample evidence to suggest that Sneijder was not the sole/most outstanding performer in 2010... starting with his own team, Milito indeed won the UEFA Footballer of the Year award, as well as both Serie A's Footballer of the Year and Foreign Footballer of the Year awards. He was also named UEFA's Man of the Match for his performance in the final (Sneijder was voted Fans' MotM). He also literally scored the goals that clinched Inter the league title (the only goal of the game on the final matchday away to Siena), the CL (the only 2 goals in the final v Bayern, 1 assisted by Sneijder) and the Coppa Italia (the only goal in the final against Roma; Sneijder had to forfeit the game due to injury after only 5'). He scored 5 of his 6 CL goals that season in the knock-out stages (v Chelsea, CSKA Moscow, Barça and Bayern), also providing 2 assists in that epic 3-1 win over Barça. Sneijder collected an equally impressive 2 goals and 4 assists in the knock-out stages.

Everything considered I could make a case for (and would've been happy to accept) Sneijder, Milito, Xavi, Messi and even Forlán as worthy BdO winners that year. And while all of them encounter factors that might detract from their achievements that year, IMO the only real "mistake" for that BdO was Iniesta's inclusion in the top-3 (runner-up even!), who apart from an okay WC campaign did very little to merit such high standing, esp. given that Milito wasn't even among the 23-player shortlist. (On that note, I also struggle to see how Cristiano ended up ahead of Xavi in 2009, who arguably had an almost equal claim as Messi to that BdO.)

 

[Fergus' son]

I think outside of Europe the Copa America is seen as important as the UEFA Euro and international tournaments always have a huge influence. I think even a performance like Neymar's at the confed cup this summer would easily be enough for Messi or Ronaldo to finish first, but none of the 3 favorites played in the confed cup, so it doesn't really matter. Barca also won their league in 99 and were a bit unlucky to be in the CL group with the 2 best teams in Europe that season, that was one true group of death, arguably the 3 best teams in Europe in the same group, still can't believe we went through after loosing the first game to Brondby .

I really don't want to start the Ribery/Ronaldo discussion again . I said it quite a few times, I think you can make a case for all three and call all of them deserved winners, Messi being the best player in the world, Ronaldo scoring the most goals and Ribery being the best player in a treble winning team that played arguably the most dominant knockout stages of all time, setting some seriously impressive records in 2013 in Europe (highest semifinal goal difference, most consecutive CL games won (9 right now and we're not finished yet), 5 consecutive away wins (also not finished yet) and in the league (I won't even start to mention all the records we broke this year). It's not just a successful team, it's really record breaking, legendary stuff. Calling the best player of that team an undeserved winner is mind-boggling really and I really think you're confusing general ability of both players with actual influence in the teams winning games this year, but yeah, if you think the gap is that big, fair enough.

Fair point about the Copa America.

Yeah there were some fine margins in '99, I'm pretty sure we drew all four group games vs Bayern/Barca and just smashed loads vs Brondby to get through on goal difference!

I wouldn't think Ribery winning it would be undeserved per se, he definitely should be one of the top 5 contenders, and has the trophies to strengthen his case, but he wouldn't be my first choice. The team around him was really really strong IMO, and thats the factor that really separates the differeing seasons accolades of Ribery and Ronaldo. And once you weaken the trophies factor, and just compare the players and thier performance, there's only one winner, IMO of course.

 

[Balu]

I wouldn't think Ribery winning it would be undeserved per se, he definitely should be one of the top 5 contenders, and has the trophies to strengthen his case, but he wouldn't be my first choice. The team around him was really really strong IMO, and thats the factor that really separates the differeing seasons accolades of Ribery and Ronaldo. And once you weaken the trophies factor, and just compare the players and thier performance, there's only one winner, IMO of course.

You really don't give enough credit to Ribery's influence on this team. It's no coincidence that Bayern didn't loose a single game so far in 2013 with him playing, he missed both games we lost, the home game against Arsenal (which is also the only game we didn't score in and the only CL game this year we didn't win) and the super cup against Dortmund. He's really individually one of the main reasons, why our team never looses the balance between defense and attack and always finds solutions to unlock the opponent's defense. You can't measure that with stats. It's not only about the trophies, it's the level of play he elevates this team on, a level that we simply don't reach when he isn't playing. With Götze, who brings comparable abilities to the team, now starting to get fit, we might be less dependent on him, but we really were last season.

Bayern played 46 competitive games (league, cup, CL, supercups) in 2013.

With him: 36 wins 2 draws

Without him: 5 wins 1 draw 2 losses

See the difference? It's even crazier than I thought. You can't be much more influential than that.

 

[Moby]

It's no coincidence that Bayern didn't loose a single game so far in 2013 with him playing, he missed both games we lost,

Not sure if completely related to this debate, but Bayern lost two games in 12/13 CL campaign and one player was a common absentee in both game, and it was not Franck Ribery, it was Bastian Schweinsteiger.

 

[Balu]

Not sure if completely related to this debate, but Bayern lost two games in 12/13 CL campaign and one player was a common absentee in both game, and it was not Franck Ribery, it was Bastian Schweinsteiger.

True, he played in the loss against Leverkusen though, those were the three games Bayern lost last season. Missing Schweinsteiger and Ribery was worst case. I was talking about 2013 though, which is what's mainly relevant for the Ballon d'Or.

 

[Gio]

I agree about Ribery and Kroos, theres a resemblance between our '99 team and this Bayern team IMO, in the sense that there was no one truly head and shoulders above the rest in those teams, lots and lots of consistent performances from great players and a fantastic collective.

No one from our '99 team was anywhere near winning the ballon dor that year (rightly or wrongly) and that's without the presence of extraordinary seasons from freaks of nature like Messi and Ronaldo.

If Ribery wins it this year I'll be pissed that one of Keane, Yorke or Beckham didn't in '99!!

This comes up quite regularly on here but Rivaldo had a sensational year. It was a different and more competitive era so nobody (not even peak Ronaldo) was racking up massive goal hauls. He was outstanding in a fairly disjointed Barcelona side, leading them to the title and almost dragging them through the toughest Champions League group ever. And he ran the show in the Copa America, dismantling Argentina and Uruguay with relative ease. That he won the award so convincingly despite United grabbing a treble is testament to the level of performance he provided.

 

[Randall Flagg]

What is often said about that year is that utd players split the vote in the pfa.

I don't recall who from our side was up for the world or balon d'or

 

[Theon]

The Ballon d'Or just doesn't seem to go to English teams. In '99 it hadn't been won in England for 31 years.

 

[Moby]

I agree with Theon, it may sound conspiracy theory-ish but the South American bias gets a bit annoying at times. Kaka winning in 07 really riled me up.

 

[Balu]

What is often said about that year is that utd players split the vote in the pfa.

I don't recall who from our side was up for the world or balon d'or

I posted a link to the results on the previous page, anyway here again:
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy99.html

Don't think splitting the votes between United players was really a problem, Beckham got most of them anyway. I agree with Gio's post above, Rivaldo's year in 99 was sensational and he had trophies to back it up.

 

[Gio]

I agree with Theon, it may sound conspiracy theory-ish but the South American bias gets a bit annoying at times. Kaka winning in 07 really riled me up.

The Ballon d'Or just doesn't seem to go to English teams. In '99 it hadn't been won in England for 31 years.

But then Liverpool's Owen won it in 2001 when the likes of Figo, Raul and Rivaldo had pretty strong campaigns. Henry's the one who has come closest from the Premiership and perhaps deserves one as much for his contribution over a number of years, rather than necessarily a particular campaign when he was head and shoulders above anybody else, given his best years coincided with huge performances from Nedved, Shevchenko and Ronaldinho.

 

[Theon]

Henry should have won it at some stage. Owen is definitely the odd one out, but we all know that. He is a poor winner of the Ballon d'Or.

In terms of English teams though Dalglish should have won it at Liverpool when they were dominating Europe. Even when Keegan was at Liverpool winning the European Cup he didn't win it, then he moves to Hamburg and wins it twice in three years. Daliglish could have won it then, given the achievements of the side.

 

[Balu]

The Keegan wins were really a bit strange, especially the first one. If I remember correctly the Bundesliga had 6 consecutive Ballon d'Or winners back then (Beckenbauer, Simonsen for Gladbach, Keegan and Rummenigge twice). It arguably was the strongest league in Europe at that time, even though England dominated the European Cup. At its peak we had 4 German teams in the UEFA Cup semifinals in 1980. But I really was surprised that its reputation was that good that it lead to players from the league regularly winning the Ballon d'Or. I think we've had only one Ballon d'Or winner since, Sammer in 96.

 

[Moby]

Probably because Serie A went to a different level in the 80s and stayed there till around mid 00s.

 

[Fergus' son]

This comes up quite regularly on here but Rivaldo had a sensational year. It was a different and more competitive era so nobody (not even peak Ronaldo) was racking up massive goal hauls. He was outstanding in a fairly disjointed Barcelona side, leading them to the title and almost dragging them through the toughest Champions League group ever. And he ran the show in the Copa America, dismantling Argentina and Uruguay with relative ease. That he won the award so convincingly despite United grabbing a treble is testament to the level of performance he provided.

I did say he deserved it.

 

[Hellboy]

The king scores again

 

[JaffyJoe]

Another goal, back post volley from a Benzema cross. He has already hit the cross bar from about 20-25 yards. He is now the 15th highest scorer in la liga history.

 

[Hellboy]

Assist from Ronaldo, Benzema scores.

 

[Fergus' son]

Assist from Ronaldo, Benzema scores.

Nah mate, Ronaldo doesn't do assists, everyone must assist him.

 

[Hellboy]

And an other one. What a man.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Just a poacher, Robben could do this with ease.

white

 

[kouroux]

I've watched the first half and Ronaldo has been just perfect. Well we could/should have scored a hat trick but it's truly amazing to watch a player at a peak of his game, being so good.

 

[Buchan]

He's a phenom.

 

[Moby]

What.A.Monster.

 

[SATA]

Has this been posted yet?

 

[Melvyn]

I believe the context of that is that he was pissed that none of the Madrid players were pressing Barca rather than Ronaldo being frustrated at chasing the ball.

 

[SATA]

Obviously

 

[Fergus' son]

Obviously

It has been posted before, about 18 months back.

 

[MoneyMay]

Has this been posted yet?

He was pissed off because of the tactics. Mourinho went all negative in that game.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Has this been posted yet?

the most late post ever?

 

[SATA]

I've just seen this

 

[Moby]

Hat trick!

 

[Baxter]

12 goals in his last 5.

 

[Red Shorts]

Nahhh Messi is much more deserving..

 

[MoneyMay]

What a start to the season.

 

[The Man Himself]

Just

 

[Fergus' son]

12 goals in his last 5.

Bloody hell.

 

[Red Shorts]

16 goals in La Liga, 8 goals in the CL. He has had an incredible start so far. He has failed to score in only 4 games .

 

[bosnian_red]

24 goals in 17 games
He's set up quite a few goals as well this season I think, could have had another 1 or 2 assists today if Morata put away the chance at the end.