Spot on. The idea this thread was started for is ludicrous.
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
- Thread starter Name Changed
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I noticed everyone commenting on his speed, he seems to keep up with that counter attack involving Obertan and Owen quite well.
only really in principle. If he ends up proving people wrong, I doubt anyone would lose any sleep with that.
The thing is this is a kid who was reserve player of the year awhile back. Now, when you watch him what the hell has gone wrong?
I don't believe for a second he's progressed or a better player. Someone must have seen him during that research season - what happened???
What was he like?
We get these threads every day with nani with fletcher with whoever you can think of. However when it comes to Nani logic flys out the window and apparently time and taking your opportunites is important else he'll be gone at the end of the season
So it's a fair enough question. It probably wasn't a fair time to ask it since he's not been featuring but this comes on the back of what he 'showed' last season and obviously some people felt he'd kick on.
He has been injured but not since August...
Striker 10 Gibson played well enough last season to earn a new contract. If that isn't progress then not much else is. I have little doubt people are just looking for the next scape goat now that O'shea and Fletcher have well and truly disappointed them in terms of being easy targets.
gibson...good enough.
the question is are we poor enough to give him games.
this isn't the same side that allowed fletch to have growing pains for 100+ games.
the question is are we poor enough to give him games.
this isn't the same side that allowed fletch to have growing pains for 100+ games.
He's clearly progressed and he's obviously a better player now than he was then. Which is why he got a fair bit of first team football last season.
Well said.
What are you on about? Scapegoat? That can only be used when certain players are playing and are blamed when the team are doing badly. Gibson hasn't come close to the amount of games Fletcher and O'Shea had played at 22. If you were going to try and make a scapegoat out of one of the players for us being second in the league now, you wouldn't be picking Gibson, because he hasn't played. Making him a scapegoat would be completely ridiculous. And for the record, I have always supported Fletcher and O'Shea from the very start so I don't know where scapegoating has come in to it. Gibson will never play regularly enough for United to be labelled a scapegoat.
Obviously, by reading your other post, you don't understand the reason why the thread was started Chief.
My instinct is that he isn't good enough due to lack of literal and mental speed on the pitch rather than any issues with technique. Having said that I used to curse the name darren fletcher and I'd now happily rim him if he asked nicely.
Well enlighten me then. Because I'm yet to see anything fair or really valid on Gibson connected to the beginning of this thread. The lad has been given short shrift and written off the exact same way Fletch was. With all the excuses in the book used to justify in a similar way.
I have watched Gibson for Ireland everytime he has played. I have watched him for the u21s. I've seen him in person many times and that is why I gave an opinion on him. I did not give an opinion on him after only seeing him once or twice.
Fletcher was completely different. He was actually playing and good enough to play. How many matches had Fletcher played at Gibson's age? Far more. There is a huge difference between Fletcher and Gibson, Fletcher always had far more attributes.
You, Chief, are one who gives his opinion every week on certain players. I don't see why Gibson is any different. If you haven't seen him enough, then fair enough, you might not be able to form an opinion.
But for those of us who have seen him in enough matches, then they can give their opinion on his whether it's positive or negative.
Scapegoating it is not. He doesn't play enough.
Another thing I might add to this point: Fletcher played often and very well for Scotland even back when he was pretty dire for us.
I remember watching him play against Italy and I couldn't for the life of me believe it was the same player that used to turn in those rubbish performances against us. Lippi singled him out, in fact, as a key player.
I remember that too. It's odd the way his Scotland performances seem to have disimproved in direct correlation with the improvement in his performances for United. Scotland must be the football equivalent of his painting in the attic.
TBF I haven't accused you of not seeing him enough. I'm instead accusing you of being quick to write him off. As I've said many times before midfielder take long to mature than any other player in a football team. Gibson is now at a good enough level to be at United. That is how he got a new contract. I have little doubt if given games he will make a step up in performance.
No way. At the same age Fletcher played far more because United was far weaker. That much is obvious. He had a passed it Keane, and off form Scholes, Alan Smith, Djemba Djemba and Giggs + Os'hea as midfield competition. Compare that to Gibson who has Anderson, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Carrick and a still very useful Giuggs and Scholes to get past.
Trust me I've seen him enough to have an opinion. I just don't buy this his not good enough line. For my money he is better on the ball than Fletcher was at his age. Has also performed consistently better for us than Fletcher did at that age. The main difference is he is slower than Fletcher. Like Fletcher did back then he doesn't impose himself physically like he probably should. A thing I expect him to improve on. He is so similar to a Lampard in his earlier day it's untrue.
From where I sit it looks just the same as what was said about Fletcher. Being justified in similar fashion. Having the reserves that look more talented him at a lower level being fronted as candidate to make him get shipped out. Even Fletcher back then was some times really atrocious for his national side and better for us and vice versa for example. It's happening again.
& almost everyone thought he was mad.
Didn't Lippi tip Nani to be a great player?
Nani can still become a great player.
He'd be stand out in a mid table premiership side. Never ever going to be good enough for united.
I think Gibson is an amazing talent. I mean, look at the goals he's scored for us so far. Those kind of goals don't come often, not even for Lee Carsley 
We are so fecking spoiled it's unreal. If Gibson had played for a club like Aston Villa there would definitely be talks about signing him up. Now we already got him, so it's not that interesting anymore. Same goes for Nani and Anderson. They were supposed to be playing every game when the CM-caftards made their pre-game line-ups. Now there's hardly any talks at all about that issue.
Look at this 20 year old and search the rest of the league to find where the other midfielders are in their careers. Gibson is looking quite soild to me. I mean, he's got great physics, good ball handling, passing the ball with the maturity of a 28 year old, more than capable in the air, looking very solid overall on the pitch. It's just that he look a bit uninterested at times, but who knows - that might just be his style? It's good to have a cool type of player as well, eventhough I wish he would be more like Rooney/Keano.
Anderson is absolutely the better player looking at where they are now, but I don't see any reason why Gibson wouldn't be able to catch up and become just as good, overall. I mean, Anderson is not exactly everything we ever wanted in a player either.
Just the fact that SAF is holding on to him is a kind of guarantee that he's better than most 20 year olds. Could be that he's just here for a short time like many other players, but most of these youngsters who leave are excluded from playing games the way Gibson is. I don't see the same pathern going for "Gibs".
We are so fecking spoiled it's unreal. If Gibson had played for a club like Aston Villa there would definitely be talks about signing him up. Now we already got him, so it's not that interesting anymore. Same goes for Nani and Anderson. They were supposed to be playing every game when the CM-caftards made their pre-game line-ups. Now there's hardly any talks at all about that issue.
Look at this 20 year old and search the rest of the league to find where the other midfielders are in their careers. Gibson is looking quite soild to me. I mean, he's got great physics, good ball handling, passing the ball with the maturity of a 28 year old, more than capable in the air, looking very solid overall on the pitch. It's just that he look a bit uninterested at times, but who knows - that might just be his style? It's good to have a cool type of player as well, eventhough I wish he would be more like Rooney/Keano.
Anderson is absolutely the better player looking at where they are now, but I don't see any reason why Gibson wouldn't be able to catch up and become just as good, overall. I mean, Anderson is not exactly everything we ever wanted in a player either.
Just the fact that SAF is holding on to him is a kind of guarantee that he's better than most 20 year olds. Could be that he's just here for a short time like many other players, but most of these youngsters who leave are excluded from playing games the way Gibson is. I don't see the same pathern going for "Gibs".
I don't think he will catch up, mainly because he isn't as talented, and doesnt have the well rounded of a game, nice shot on him thoughI think Gibson is an amazing talent. I mean, look at the goals he's scored for us so far. Those kind of goals don't come often, not even for Lee Carsley
We are so fecking spoiled it's unreal. If Gibson had played for a club like Aston Villa there would definitely be talks about signing him up. Now we already got him, so it's not that interesting anymore. Same goes for Nani and Anderson. They were supposed to be playing every game when the CM-caftards made their pre-game line-ups. Now there's hardly any talks at all about that issue.
Look at this 20 year old and search the rest of the league to find where the other midfielders are in their careers. Gibson is looking quite soild to me. I mean, he's got great physics, good ball handling, passing the ball with the maturity of a 28 year old, more than capable in the air, looking very solid overall on the pitch. It's just that he look a bit uninterested at times, but who knows - that might just be his style? It's good to have a cool type of player as well, eventhough I wish he would be more like Rooney/Keano.
Anderson is absolutely the better player looking at where they are now, but I don't see any reason why Gibson wouldn't be able to catch up and become just as good, overall. I mean, Anderson is not exactly everything we ever wanted in a player either.
Just the fact that SAF is holding on to him is a kind of guarantee that he's better than most 20 year olds. Could be that he's just here for a short time like many other players, but most of these youngsters who leave are excluded from playing games the way Gibson is. I don't see the same pathern going for "Gibs".
I think you compare Carrick with the rest of his "pals" playing in West Ham - Joe Cole and Frank Lampard. Am I not forgetting someone here now? Anyway, looking back both Cole and Lampard took off quite early and were seen as superstars in their early 20's while Carrick was off the radar and went down the league system with the hammers. He didn't look much with his weak physics, but he still played the same way he's doing today but much deeper. It took some good time for him to get to Tottenham, and from there we all know what happened.
Today he's a composed midfielder eventhough he's not capable of doing any of the tricks Anderson is doing. Now, I don't think anyone would claim Carrick is a shit player though?
Many claim Carrick is shit. So it's no surprise many don't rate Gibson at this age. Too many just don't understand that central midfielders take more time to mature.
What gets me is that people no longer give players the time, some players don't become great until they're in their mid 20's i don't expect anything from any of our midfield youth until they get to about 24 onwards.
That's been annoying me of late too, people seem to either want to write players off for not being world class by the age of 20, or they think we can't risk bringing youngsters through and should just buy world class players for every position.
With all due respect we gave phil neville a five year contract and then sold him to Everton the following year. To be cynical it protects the fee somewhat. I know pogue says he's progressed but the problem for me, is even last season, I don't see a player that's so good he'd win reserve player of the year. So all I can assume is he's gone backwards somewhat in his development.
The player we see now may have shown something last season but because of injuries - nothing this and therefore games like tonight are vital as he's missed a lot of games and in the new year, it's difficult to see him get many.
If your including me in easy targets, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I said it's not about being wrong or right here. In an earlier post. However I do watch our reserves and can honestly say Gibson is not irreplaceable because of the talent coming through. You can't turn a blind eye to it. You have to measure talent against talent.
Fergie wouldn't agree that he's "gone backwards". In fact, he seems to be convinced he's improving.
SAF said:
This comes from the man who wanted us to hold on to Dong and give him time
Remember that "Dongs time to shine" thread?
How is Gibson not any different from Dong?
Dong is a player I had NO patience with, and that was based on knowledge. You seem to have learned the wrong way Striker10. Come back again next year
SAF encouraging a player shocker! If he really thinks he's turned a corner, then why the hell has Gibson only got 1 start all season or has he turned a corner but still well down the pecking order?
This comes from the man who wanted us to hold on to Dong and give him time
Remember that "Dongs time to shine" thread?
How is Gibson not any different from Dong?
Dong is a player I had NO patience with, and that was based on knowledge. You seem to have learned the wrong way Striker10. Come back again next year
Trying to compare Dong with Gibson is really pushing it. I'm not saying Gibson will make it at Utd, but he's leagues ahead of where Dong ever was
Erm.... I think you'll find he's been injured.
That's beside the point anyway. He's clearly still well down the pecking order so would probably not have started many league games anyway. He would have played in the CC though and the reason I posted the quote was to highlight that SAF doesn't think he's going "backwards" which is a ludicrous claim to make after he's only just had his best season for United by far.
A very ignorant statement or extremely biased. I doubt most of the people who don't rate him knew that he was injured. Gibson reminds me of Lampard in his West Ham days
I'd like to see him in a more advanced attacking midfield role tonight. He has a good eye for goal and if he can start banging them in then he would be perfect for us.
-----Fletch-----------Anderson/Carrick------
---------------Gibson---------------------
----Obertan-------------------Welbeck/Nani-
-----------Rooney/Berba/Owen/Kiko
for tonight
-----Fletch-----------Anderson/Carrick------
---------------Gibson---------------------
----Obertan-------------------Welbeck/Nani-
-----------Rooney/Berba/Owen/Kiko
for tonight
If he doesnt score tonight from at least 34 yards out I want him sold straight away after the match.
To be fair to Gibson is that regard, he has Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Scholes and Giggs ahead of him in the pecking order and he was injured. Plus Hargreaves if he comes back will be ahead of him. That's 6th choice now and hopefully 7th choice when Hargreaves comes back. If he stays at United, it'll be a fair while before he starts playing games. At the moment, I doubt if Giggs and Scholes have any intention to retire until at least the end of next season. And the thing is, when they do, most will want us to sign another midfielder or two and we probably will. Some people are already calling for us to sign players like Gourcouff and Hamsik, saying our midfield isn't good enough as it is. I don't envisage how Gibson will ever get that much game time to prove he can be a top player.
With all due respect that doesn't fly. Phizza asked to move. In a bid to go to a place that would get him a world cup ticket in the England team. IIRC. Thus you really can't compare his situation to Gibson's in any shape or form.
Well your assumptions are baseless. To put it mildly.
He will get games. The season is long. Besides Hargreaves return will make it easier for him to get games. For a fit Hargreaves will mean more rotation in a midfield in which the only untouchable is Fletcher ATM.
Rather I'm sorry to disappoint you
. You've never been Fletcher or O'shea. The two players I was referring to as former scape goat an the favorite easy targets of the cafe until recently. No one is saying his irreplaceable. We are just saying talk of those seemingly more natural talents in the reserves suddenly forcing him out in the near future is silly. Just like talk that he isn't good enough when SAF is clearly saying other wise. The same stuff was said about Fletcher. Yet Gibson is a more consistent player than Fletcher was at his age.
People forget that Reserve level for a midfielder is not even close to EPL level. The likes of Petrucci, James, Eikrem have some way to go before the even get to Gibson's current level, in the first team squad. Just remember Possebon. Who looked truly special at times in the reserves. Yet he is finding it tricky to step up from that level, just like Gibson initially did. Yet I have no doubt he has more talent than even Gibson.
Bottom line Young midfielders have to learn loads of things before they are ready for first team action proper at senior level. They also mature later than most other positions unless they are uber special ala a Fabregas. Anyone really expecting so much more from Gibson at his current age with the type of competition he faces to get first team football, is simply not realistic.
AS usual the cafe is sure he is talking bollocks.
There's always one. People wrote dong off before he even played. You see people making a fuss about his chelsea debut and write him off. It's crazy. This kid was chinese. He weren't local...This comes from the man who wanted us to hold on to Dong and give him time
Remember that "Dongs time to shine" thread?
How is Gibson not any different from Dong?
Dong is a player I had NO patience with, and that was based on knowledge. You seem to have learned the wrong way Striker10. Come back again next year
I never said he'd make it. If we've kids here you might as well accept they have a chance and not put it down to a gimmick. That said Gibsons situation is different to Dongs..
Gibsons been at United a number of years. Dong was in belgium for over 2 years prior to coming here. So you have to get used to the country, make friends, learn the language etc
I just assumed Darron was good for all that. So Darrons 22, been here about 4 or so years. What has he proven? Lets make one thing clear. Sir Alex will never say anything bad about a kid coming through. For a start, it devalues the player....
There are differences but look I cannot make it more simple for simple folk. We're not in competition here. I said in this thread. It don't matter who's right or wrong...what part of that do you not understand? This ain't one man upship. Being half irish, I wouldn't mind Gibson coming through but not at the expence of better players
But that is just my opinion.
With Dong, he was no world beater but give him a shot and then judge (notice past tense). Gibsons already played a number of games .....
God, you sound like a gimp. If I said James, Eikrem, norwood, cleverly, petrucci etc it'd probably whiz over your head...As soon as you mention that, people say well they've not made it yet or they're kids - the problem with that is Gibson hasn't made it either so why have a preference over one or the other?
It comes down to who's developing better and who has the managers trust. In addition we might not be able to give the player what he wants. He has to be good enough to get in the first 11 and that means upping his game because where we stand, he has not shown he is better then the lads we have out there most weeks.
Chief you are surely the king of multi-quote.