David Raya
- Thread starter Samid
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Interesting video. "..doesnt have world class reflexes.." that sums up why he wont be a utd keeper.
As the summary said not a potential world class keeper for the top sides.
I like him but can't help but feel Robert Sanchez of Brighton would be the better buy but wouldn't be against Raya coming in.
For those even contemplating swapping DDG with this guy (yes apparently there are a few)....he is 27 years old, has never played football for even a remotely big side, and then he is to take over the arguably most difficult position in world football 
One thing is that he probably isn't good enough, another thing is - we have no way of knowing he is mentally up to the task as he has never been under real scrutiny and pressure as a goalkeeper before.
One thing is that he probably isn't good enough, another thing is - we have no way of knowing he is mentally up to the task as he has never been under real scrutiny and pressure as a goalkeeper before.
Nah, Raya has made more than twice the amount of saves that Sanchez has made this season, and kept two more clean sheets playing for a worse team, and is better with his feet.
I guess Raya and Sanchez could lace one boot of De Gea's each.
That 1st minute or so of his distribution reminded me so much of Schmeichel.
Completely agree, not just on Raya but several of the keepers people are touting, its almost as if people are forgetting the goalkeepers use there hands and are there to save shots, being a sweeper is a small part of what we need and forget some of these stupid stats people are throwing about, DeGea is better than most out thereFor those even contemplating swapping DDG with this guy (yes apparently there are a few)....he is 27 years old, has never played football for even a remotely big side, and then he is to take over the arguably most difficult position in world football
One thing is that he probably isn't good enough, another thing is - we have no way of knowing he is mentally up to the task as he has never been under real scrutiny and pressure as a goalkeeper before.
He’s a bloody good keeper easily one of the best in the league and clearly going to be leaving - you’d be foolish to not attempt to buy him. Although he has only played for Brentford and Blackburn plus YouTube scouting hasn’t impressed some so probably best to steer clear….
I think it cant be understated how important it is for a new goalkeeper knowing the league when replacing a long term goalkeeper. He'd be absolutely perfect if we want a different type of keeper.
For those even contemplating swapping DDG with this guy (yes apparently there are a few)....he is 27 years old, has never played football for even a remotely big side, and then he is to take over the arguably most difficult position in world football
One thing is that he probably isn't good enough, another thing is - we have no way of knowing he is mentally up to the task as he has never been under real scrutiny and pressure as a goalkeeper before.
The Man Utd goalkeeper job is no different to any other. The most difficult position in world football idea is a load of bollicks.
Schmeichel came from Brondby
VDS came from Fulham
It's about finding the right keeper to suit the team. Right now DDG is the antithesis of what Utd need in a keeper.
Raya may not be the guy, but it's a step in the right direction.
Different as in not as good as an actual goalkeeper
I mean, not really an apt comparison as Schmeichel had won the Euros and VDS played for Juventus and Ajax winning the Champions league in the process. VDS in particular being at a team like Fulham is an absolute outlier as far as goalkeepers are concerned, generally any good ones get to and stay at top clubs for their careers.
Pretty certain David Will stay….
Looks like he is seen as a leader by ETH
Rumours of him agreeing a lower salary contract (still 250k, down from 350k which was a stupid contract to give in first place)….and he is very keen to stay, so I don’t see us bringing another 27 year old to replace a guy with a big contract…
Looks like he is seen as a leader by ETH
Rumours of him agreeing a lower salary contract (still 250k, down from 350k which was a stupid contract to give in first place)….and he is very keen to stay, so I don’t see us bringing another 27 year old to replace a guy with a big contract…
I don't think we'll view replacing De Gea as a priority at the moment. He's in the best form he's been in for a couple of years IMO.
His stats for this season are average at best
Different as in, if the manager wants a high line and a keeper who can cover space behind our back four, he's ideal.
A keeper under a head coach with a clear and defined attacking play style, must contribute towards helping the team in more ways than one. Shot stopping is of course important against the opponent's transition but the keeper must also show the ability to help in the build up phase (long and short) at a high level. And imo, a keeper must also be able to utilise the advantage of using his hands in his area when it comes to claiming crosses, and exerting dominance in his box. Contrary to what was posted above, our keeper is not good enough at making use of the advantage he has of using his hands within his area. The stats below are damning in that regard.
If one looks at things holistically and with a broader mindset, then it's clear to see that not having a keeper with the ability to provide the first superiority at a high level on the ball, along with not being able to use the advantage of their hands against high balls/crosses, will have a effect on how the head coach wants to play. Some people are too tunnel visioned to see the benefits of having a well rounded keeper, like some were too tunnel visioned to accept that Ronaldo's 18 goals (in the league) were being scored at the detriment of the collective. How are we going to replace his goals was the cry, the answer was by focusing on improving the team as a collective.
I think a well rounded keeper will result in improving the collective and hence we'll function better as a team going forward. And over the course of the season, I feel we'll see us improve due to the potential a keeper with good box command, good distribution and good shot stopping will offer. DdG is seen as a positive influence in the dressing room, so I can see why ten Hag would want to hold on to him like how it was reported that he wanted to hold on to Nemanja Matic for the same reasons.
But we should really look to evolve as a team going forward imo. And the stats below display the great job ten Hag has done by compromising on his principles of play.
And I'm not saying Raya is the answer long term, but the stats below show that he wipes the floor with De Gea when it comes to crosses/high claims. That's what I would call taking advantage of using your hands as a keeper.
If one looks at things holistically and with a broader mindset, then it's clear to see that not having a keeper with the ability to provide the first superiority at a high level on the ball, along with not being able to use the advantage of their hands against high balls/crosses, will have a effect on how the head coach wants to play. Some people are too tunnel visioned to see the benefits of having a well rounded keeper, like some were too tunnel visioned to accept that Ronaldo's 18 goals (in the league) were being scored at the detriment of the collective. How are we going to replace his goals was the cry, the answer was by focusing on improving the team as a collective.
I think a well rounded keeper will result in improving the collective and hence we'll function better as a team going forward. And over the course of the season, I feel we'll see us improve due to the potential a keeper with good box command, good distribution and good shot stopping will offer. DdG is seen as a positive influence in the dressing room, so I can see why ten Hag would want to hold on to him like how it was reported that he wanted to hold on to Nemanja Matic for the same reasons.
But we should really look to evolve as a team going forward imo. And the stats below display the great job ten Hag has done by compromising on his principles of play.
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And I'm not saying Raya is the answer long term, but the stats below show that he wipes the floor with De Gea when it comes to crosses/high claims. That's what I would call taking advantage of using your hands as a keeper.
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But what do you think when watching him? Is he "average at best"?
Schmeichel and VDS keepers were what the team needed, they were identified and brought in and the flourished along with the rest of the team.
In between you had a world cup winner, several stop gaps and quite frankly a few few weird selections. None of which were comfortable with playing in the style Utd needed during that period. None of them were good enough.
Someone like Raya is what this team needs now, a guy who'll sweep, claim crosses, makes saves and is good with the ball at his feet. He may not be the long term solution but he is a step in the right direction.
If ETH indeed wants a different type of goalkeeper then we will certainly be in the market for one, budget notwithstanding. If De Gea accepts competition for his spot (which he thrives on, IMO) and a wage reduction, I don't see why it has to be one or the other. Assuming they perform equally well, we can use 1 for the cup games and the other for the league.
We once had Romero and De Gea (Argentina's and Spain's number 1) competing for a starting position, after all.
Nooo... How dare you bring stats into it?
Don't you know my eye test is all that matters, even though I know absolutely nothing about football? When I see stats I get ANGRY! Stats! Numbers! Game's gone. And add to that these:
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Finally, for all who want to read more on Raya and how he compares with other potential GK targets: https://thedevilsdna.com/?p=273815Here's the comparison with Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal keepers + Unai Simon:
Average at clean sheets and saves percentage. And again his longevity is obviously helping him. Only Mendy is ahead from the younger keepers.
Here's a deeper look into the stats:
Launched (40 yards or more) balls are De Gea's default way of playing the ball out and he is really not good at it.
Notice also the penultimate column (#OPA/90 = Number of actions outside of penalty area per 90 minute). De Gea is dead last, by a distance. This is the 'sweeper-keeper' metric.
Notice also the Stp% one. This is Crosses Stopped Percentage. Again, dead last, by a country mile.
I've highlighted medium distance passes (15-30 yards) as those are the diagonals towards fullbacks which are an absolute must for modern goalkeepers.
So, what is the summary?
De Gea is average at shot stopping. He is quite poor in long balls. He is very poor at medium distance balls. He is incredibly poor at sweeping and stopping crosses.
And he is the highest paid goalkeeper in the world.
Do you see where the problem is?
Tbh with you, just the eye test alone is enough to see that De Gea isn't good enough when it comes to shot prevention against the opponent's transition or his inability to provide the first superiority in possession in the build up phase. We've had over a decade of seeing that, and his weaknesses have started to become even more pronounced now that the focus is on building up play against teams who want to defend high up the pitch rather than fall back into their defensive shape.Nooo... How dare you bring stats into it?
So before the criticism was mainly around shot prevention due to his lack of command when it came to stopping crosses/high balls into the box. And that was enough for me to want to see him replaced, but currently against teams who defend high up the pitch and cut off passing lanes, his other weaknesses have also been exposed.
A keeper who isn't good enough at shot prevention and lacks sufficient ability on the ball, will hinder the progress of the collective going forward, especially under a head coach who wants to implement a attacking brand of football with pressing and counter pressing capabilites.
So what's happening right now is that due to about 3 positions (including DdG), ten Hag has compromised on his principles in the first phase of the build up whilst implementing his ideals starting from the second phase. He obviously doesn't trust the players collectively in the first phase (GK, CBs, Fullbacks, deeper midfielders) to provide a high level of technical security hence we're not taking the risk of turning over possession in our defensive phase, which suits certain players. And our defensive line suffers due to the lack of technical security in certain positions, which is then exacerbated by a lack of proactiveness by the keeper who is not comfortable when it comes to sweeping up.
I don't think it's sustainable to carry on playing the way we're in the mid to long-term. We have to attempt to become a more dominant team, starting from the first phase of the build up, and I'm sure a new keeper, RB and deep roaming midfielder with a good off the ball defensive game, will be brought in at some point in the next year or two.
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Yes he has a quality that is his shot stopping but even that is in the middle of the park these days, his distribution sucks, his sweeping is lacking and his command of the area is non existent. Our Dave is sadly not close to being a top keeper and his lack of game time for the Spanish national team shows how much we Utd fans overrate him.
Nooo... How dare you bring stats into it?
Omg, it was so painful to watch against Barcelona's Ter Stegen... His distribution, offering a passing option to the CBs, and claiming crosses, so contrasting.
We’ll struggle to dominate with a GK who can’t build attacks
Of course he isn't. I love De Gea, one of my favorite players, and he will go down in the history books of the club. I wouldn't mind keeping him on as a second keeper, but now we need someone who offers more as first choice.
Raya isn‘t good enough, he is not that great with the ball at his feet. He is weak 1v1. His saving percentage is inflated because of Brentford packing the box.
He is a good sweeper and pro-active with high balls, in that respect he would be a clear upgrade.
He is not composed enough on the ball, not what we need.
I didn't say he was the answer, and I quite frankly don't know enough about him to present a informed personal assessment.
The fact that both of these quotes are correct simultaneously is the reason why DDG needs to be shown the door.
He has pieces of what we need, not the whole picture.
We definitely need to find the right fit going forward imo. Raya seems like a short term solution, but I could be wrong because I very rarely watch Brentford.
What makes you say he is not great with the ball at his feet?
Also, his saves have been quite good and is definitely better than most PL keepers
Overall, his actions are quite positive:
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I am sorry, but you are so wrong - and your logic is flawed. To say that being the goalkeeper at United is no different - sorry, but it's not. Ben Foster who knows better than most what it feels like admitted it was too big for him. As for using Schmeichel and VDS as examples is not really good examples. Schmeichel played regularly for one of the best countries in Europe and had close to 40 caps for Denmark. And VDS coming from Fulham ? Jeez - the guy had played for Ajax and Juventus and had tons of caps for the Dutch team - you can't really compare that to Raya who has played for a mid-table team in the P.L with 2 caps for Spain.
Not that it matters anyway, because Raya isn't good enough
The problem is - we need a goalkeeper who is arguably better than ALL P.L keepers if we are to replace DDG. Not someone who is better than most. Raya isn't a bad keeper, but is he top-3 in the P.L ? Not in my opinion. So why should we even have a debate about DDG and Raya ? I can imagine 2-3 goalkeepers in the world who MIGHT be available and who is at the same level or maybe marginally better than DDG - Raya isn't one of themWhat makes you say he is not great with the ball at his feet?
Also, his saves have been quite good and is definitely better than most PL keepers
Overall, his actions are quite positive:
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Yeah, no...
Nothing to do with yesterday's game, but some interesting charts made by a user by the name of themfeelswhen on Reddit about GK performance across Europa and how De Gea compares (decidedly below average):
This can’t be updated, surely? I know we’re a team who excels in counter and transitions, but I really doubt we’re still this low in the table for our defensive line. Replies seem to suggest the same:
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Yes.
Infact, apart from his shot stopping, he’s below average in every other department.
It isn’t 2018 anymore.
It really depends on who we're playing and how high they decide to defend imo. Our first phase play (defensive third) is pretty poor and we usually look to bypass it all together which obviously suits certain players.