Day 17: England vs Germany | Sweden vs Ukraine (Ro16 7&8)

roonster09 said:
Formation doesn't matter. If England switch to 4-3-3, all of a sudden they won't be attacking team and very pleasing to watch team. They don't have good CMs and they are not well oiled machine like Spain who plays such a game that all their players are in sync, as that's how they are coached from younger days.

England are sort of unbalanced team, I think Germany will win the game. They will control the game and the way they attacked vs Portugal, it was hard to cope for most defenses.
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This is also what I think will happen yeah, but will be interesting for sure. You are right that formation doesn't matter but player selection does - I'd be a lot more excited if I saw Rice - Mount - Grealish as a midfield trio or even Rice - Henderson - Grealish than Rice - Philips (even though he's been one of the better players so far). You're just not gonna see a lot of chances or attacking play with only Foden, an out of form Kane and a (imo) struggling Sterling as your only players with some sort of attacking contribution.

I have low expectations even though it's a big game on paper, but I also had low expectations for both of yesterday's games so what do I know :lol:
 
Rudiger, Gosens and Gundogan all doubts. Combine that with playing 6 of the 7 games at home in a tournament where most other teams are traveling nonstop all across Europe between every game + facing Sweden/Ukraine and Denmark/Czech to get to the final and it’s getting rather ridiculous. Never seen a NT as lucky as England, they’ve been handed a clear path to the final in consecutive tournaments.
 
RobinLFC said:
This is also what I think will happen yeah, but will be interesting for sure. You are right that formation doesn't matter but player selection does - I'd be a lot more excited if I saw Rice - Mount - Grealish as a midfield trio or even Rice - Henderson - Grealish than Rice - Philips (even though he's been one of the better players so far). I have low expectations even though it's a big game on paper, but I also had low expectations for both of yesterday's games so what do I know :lol:
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Yeah, Grealish should be one of the first player on the team sheet. Players like him should play, he brings so much composure to the team and also creates plenty of chances.
 
It should be something along those lines:
—————————-Henderson—————————-
Walker———-Stones———Maguire———Shaw
————-Henderson————Rice————————
Sancho—————-Grealish—————Rashford
——————————Kane————————————
 
Has there been a rumoured starting XI? The leaks seem to have been on the money so far.
 
Samid said:
Rudiger, Gosens and Gundogan all doubts. Combine that with playing 6 of the 7 games at home in a tournament where most other teams are traveling nonstop all across Europe between every game + facing Sweden/Ukraine and Denmark/Czech to get to the final and it’s getting rather ridiculous. Never seen a NT as lucky as England, they’ve been handed a clear path to the final in consecutive tournaments.
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I just hope they feck it all up, everything is put on a platter for England.
 
kouroux said:
I just hope they feck it all up, everything is put on a platter for England.
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Maybe we can get a Brazil type of situation, with a host nation and all that "justified" hype . It would only be fair.
 
Samid said:
Rudiger, Gosens and Gundogan all doubts. Combine that with playing 6 of the 7 games at home in a tournament where most other teams are traveling nonstop all across Europe between every game + facing Sweden/Ukraine and Denmark/Czech to get to the final and it’s getting rather ridiculous. Never seen a NT as lucky as England, they’ve been handed a clear path to the final in consecutive tournaments.
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Denmark, and they aren't even top-seeded. An easy group where they finished second on three (!) points, still managed to get a last 16 against the worst team, Wales, and will now face the Cech Republic in the quarter-final. Incredibly. England won their relative tough group and then meet Germany in the last 16, and even if they are lucky in an eventual quarter-final, it's not that easy so far.
 
kouroux said:
I just hope they feck it all up, everything is put on a platter for England.
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I don't dislike anyone in particular in this England team but I still would prefer them not winning it, purely due to the mass mysteria that will follow and the hype that will follow this lot of English players. It's why I'd rather have seen France go through.
 
TheGame said:
France changed their system and matched against Switzerland and it failed. Portugal went with a defensive line up and it didn't work. While we have looked ok defensively, we have hardly created many attacking chances. Playing 7 defensive players which its looking like isn't going to help.
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You playing three at the back is actually a very good choice, I believe. We dominated Portugal because we could always count on Gosens getting space on the left. We were very uninspired whenever the opponent closed down that option. It was crosses, chip passes and long shots gallore then. If England plays three at the back, we might be well advised to switch to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 IMO. Negative teams have actually been more threatening to us than those who tried to attack themselves.
 
Mickson said:
Denmark, and they aren't even top-seeded. An easy group where they finished second on three (!) points, still managed to get a last 16 against the worst team, Wales, and will now face the Cech Republic in the quarter-final. Incredibly. England won their relative tough group and then meet Germany in the last 16, and even if they are lucky in an eventual quarter-final, it's not that easy so far.
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Their best player almost died though so there's that.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I don't dislike anyone in particular in this England team but I still would prefer them not winning it, purely due to the mass mysteria that will follow and the hype that will follow this lot of English players. It's why I'd rather have seen France go through.
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I dislike a lot of the players in the England and also a lot of their ex pros and pundits. I live for their failure :lol:

do.ob said:
Maybe we can get a Brazil type of situation, with a host nation and all that "justified" hype . It would only be fair.
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You mean another spanking :drool: ?
 
Samid said:
Rudiger, Gosens and Gundogan all doubts. Combine that with playing 6 of the 7 games at home in a tournament where most other teams are traveling nonstop all across Europe between every game + facing Sweden/Ukraine and Denmark/Czech to get to the final and it’s getting rather ridiculous. Never seen a NT as lucky as England, they’ve been handed a clear path to the final in consecutive tournaments.
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Rüdiger & Gosens been having a slight cold, they're both very likely to play tonight. And Gündogan not playing means Goretzka taking his place, which is actually a good thing for us.
 
TheGame said:
France changed their system and matched against Switzerland and it failed. Portugal went with a defensive line up and it didn't work. While we have looked ok defensively, we have hardly created many attacking chances. Playing 7 defensive players which its looking like isn't going to help.
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France changed their system to one they never play because they didn’t have a LB. very different to England changing To a system they have played before and know well.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
France changed their system to one they never play because they didn’t have a LB. very different to England changing To a system they have played before and know well.
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They could have easily played Pavard there. He didn't want to play Pogba and Kante in a 2. They have started defensively in the other matches and have had to change and have looked whether when they have changed to their attacking shape.
 
Zehner said:
You playing three at the back is actually a very good choice, I believe. We dominated Portugal because we could always count on Gosens getting space on the left. We were very uninspired whenever the opponent closed down that option. It was crosses, chip passes and long shots gallore then. If England plays three at the back, we might be well advised to switch to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 IMO. Negative teams have actually been more threatening to us than those who tried to attack themselves.
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3 at the back is great when you have some creative midfielders. Rice and Phillips are not those players.
 
Interested to see how much Gosens can exploit the space between Trippier and Walker. Dude has been so good.
 
TheGame said:
3 at the back is great when you have some creative midfielders. Rice and Phillips are not those players.
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Depends. Our creative midfield doesn't help us much because in the 3-4-3 neither Gündogan nor Kroos have much freedom to push forward. They're very restricted to recycle possession, distribute the ball and stay in position. Especially Gündogan is robbed of his biggest strength of the last season through by this formation.
 
PoTMS said:
Pickford; Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw; Phillips, Rice; Foden, Kane, Sterling.
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Cheers, the Germany Hungary game seems to lend weight to going with the 3 at the back system despite the unappealing look of that XI.

I’ve disagreed with most of Southgate’s decisions so far and here we are so it’s probably better to have some faith and let the Stella do my thinking anyways.
 
TheGame said:
They could have easily played Pavard there. He didn't want to play Pogba and Kante in a 2. They have started defensively in the other matches and have had to change and have looked whether when they have changed to their attacking shape.
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my point is France played a system that was unusual for them. England often play a 3 at the back. So not the same, and not a big deal.
 
I can just envision it now... Germany get an early lead & England's game plan is unstuck, the game turns into a slog fest and we crash out after Southgate waits far too long to make subs.
 
Would be interesting to see if Goretzka starts today, he had a massive impact on the last game but I think Low will continue with Gundogan and Kroos to keep dominance of the ball. The issue to be the counter attacking strengths of the English front three.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
my point is France played a system that was unusual for them. England often play a 3 at the back. So not the same, and not a big deal.
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Yes they have but back in 2018, it was to get the best out of the then squad. That system although used before is not designed to get the best out of this squad. My fear is that the negative approach will cost us.
 
Zehner said:
Depends. Our creative midfield doesn't help us much because in the 3-4-3 neither Gündogan nor Kroos have much freedom to push forward. They're very restricted to recycle possession, distribute the ball and stay in position. Especially Gündogan is robbed of his biggest strength of the last season through by this formation.
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Kroos has been very good dictating from deep. I have been very impressed with how Germany have kept the ball.
 
TheGame said:
Kroos has been very good dictating from deep. I have been very impressed with how Germany have kept the ball.
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Don't let @do.ob read that ;)

In general, I agree. But Germany has also been very vulnerable against teams who counter quickly. England so far has been very solid defensively and have very pacey plays for counter attacks. Generally that's a recipe for disaster for us, so I have mixed feelings about the game tonight - part of me is optimistic because we're much better in possession, I believe, and I don't rate Southgate at all right now, but the other part expects us to be exposed by England on the break.
 
The rumoured XI doesn’t really lend itself to it a back 3 at all, so whilst the formation might be good to match, not quite sure about personnel…
 
Zehner said:
Don't let @do.ob read that ;)

In general, I agree. But Germany has also been very vulnerable against teams who counter quickly. England so far has been very solid defensively and have very pacey plays for counter attacks. Generally that's a recipe for disaster for us, so I have mixed feelings about the game tonight - part of me is optimistic because we're much better in possession, I believe, and I don't rate Southgate at all right now, but the other part expects us to be exposed by England on the break.
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I don't dispute Kroos' ability on the ball. I just think die Mannschaft should actually have a midfield defensively.

hasanejaz88 said:
Would be interesting to see if Goretzka starts today, he had a massive impact on the last game but I think Low will continue with Gundogan and Kroos to keep dominance of the ball. The issue to be the counter attacking strengths of the English front three.
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I think the best chance of seeing Goretzka is having him play for Gnabry. Löw should watch the Spain games to show him how far away he is from the idea of football he has in his head.
 
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