The Germans should, and must win this.
Day 22: Brazil vs. Germany
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
About Reus vs Müller
Reus had a mediocre year but a world class April and May. In the preparations for the World Cup Müller looked slightly better.
Müller is a competition player who really thrives in difficult situations and in cup competitions. Not only the World Cup - look into the CL run of 2012/13 where he really participated in all important situations and he only lacked the CL winning goal in the final. His record in the German Cup is very impressive, too. In two or three years when he is 27 and will still have a lot of his career to go he will be second in history and only beaten by the bomber who has a very impressive record there, too. He is a special player who scores about 60% or even more in away matches - contrary to the usual player. He rarely scores against easy opponents. He was Mr. Chance dead in Bundesliga matches on homeground - but is Europe's best scorer away from home - only Suarez has more assists and goals as he does but with more match time. His chance conversion is bad at home in the league - and poacher like away and in CL matches.
Reus is a great player - I just do not know if he has the mentality to pack out in this matches.
The difference between Reus and Müller is that at Müller we know out of experience that he performs in that matches - with Reus we just do not know and it is more hope than knowledge. The abilities he for sure has. But if he just would perform somewhere near to normal it would be a big upgrade to that what Özil and Götze deliver. And Schürrle just plays his usual self. Much speed, good shot but often a chance dead, not equal to the others in playing intelligence.
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I have to say I'm still rooting for Brazil, more so really as they'll be underdogs without Neymar and Silva.
Brazil are favourites to win
This last 4 is lose-lose for Italy.
Either Brazil go yet another WC ahead of us or Germany catch up with us or Argentina gets closer to us or yet another team joins the list of winners.
Either Brazil go yet another WC ahead of us or Germany catch up with us or Argentina gets closer to us or yet another team joins the list of winners.
Well that's just silly.
We will do it this time.
I said it from the beginning and I will stick by my words.
It doesn't ever matter if Neymar is out or not, I just sensed some kind of determination in the squad for the tournament.
For most of the "Sommermärchen"-Generation (that's the 2006 generation) it's the last genuine shot they have to get the highest honour of world football.
Actually, there's not much left of this generation, but the ones left are the ones who changed the perception of german football worldwide.
Löw, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Podolski, Mertesacker and Klose all were part of the team in 2006 and since then, they all established in the highest divisions of football. But still, there is - at least at home - a lot of doubt left. Löw is constantly criticized since 2012, Schweinsteiger and Lahm are both confronting ongoing doubts about there quality as leaders, Podolski may haven't made enough of his talent. Mertesacker is perceived as slow alot, Klose is liked and honoured, but never won anything truly great.
Not all of them will play tonight, but they are (Löw obviously
) the backspine of this team, at least when it comes to the spirit of the squad.
Lahm and Schweinsteiger got some relief when they won the Champions League last year, but this is their chance to establish themselves as two of the greatest footballer Germany ever had. If they make it, both will be remembered not only as the greatest german footballers of their generations but as two of the greatest footballers Germany ever had.
You may argue that this is also some kind of pressure and Brazil also has some kind of determination around them.
But for me, there is an important difference.
This strong will, this determination is developed by the players alone in that Germanys case. Actually, they don't need to prove anything to anybody if you are completely honest.
Brazils determination comes from the pressure they experience from outside, their country, their people. It's something that's able to break you.
All this rememebers me of the 2013 Champions League campaign of Munich. The don't give a shit about the BS that's written by the media, they are focused on their goal: "We will do it our way or die with pride".
In Brazil, on the other side, I sense a lot of despair, something like "We don't really believe in it ourselves but we have to because we're expected to do it."
Besides everything else, this will make the difference tonight.
Edit: Just some thought that occured to me while doing the dishes:
For Germany, it's more about GAINING something: Ultimate honour. For Brazil, it's about probably failing to archieve something everybody expected you to do.
I said it from the beginning and I will stick by my words.
It doesn't ever matter if Neymar is out or not, I just sensed some kind of determination in the squad for the tournament.
For most of the "Sommermärchen"-Generation (that's the 2006 generation) it's the last genuine shot they have to get the highest honour of world football.
Actually, there's not much left of this generation, but the ones left are the ones who changed the perception of german football worldwide.
Löw, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Podolski, Mertesacker and Klose all were part of the team in 2006 and since then, they all established in the highest divisions of football. But still, there is - at least at home - a lot of doubt left. Löw is constantly criticized since 2012, Schweinsteiger and Lahm are both confronting ongoing doubts about there quality as leaders, Podolski may haven't made enough of his talent. Mertesacker is perceived as slow alot, Klose is liked and honoured, but never won anything truly great.
Not all of them will play tonight, but they are (Löw obviously
) the backspine of this team, at least when it comes to the spirit of the squad.Lahm and Schweinsteiger got some relief when they won the Champions League last year, but this is their chance to establish themselves as two of the greatest footballer Germany ever had. If they make it, both will be remembered not only as the greatest german footballers of their generations but as two of the greatest footballers Germany ever had.
You may argue that this is also some kind of pressure and Brazil also has some kind of determination around them.
But for me, there is an important difference.
This strong will, this determination is developed by the players alone in that Germanys case. Actually, they don't need to prove anything to anybody if you are completely honest.
Brazils determination comes from the pressure they experience from outside, their country, their people. It's something that's able to break you.
All this rememebers me of the 2013 Champions League campaign of Munich. The don't give a shit about the BS that's written by the media, they are focused on their goal: "We will do it our way or die with pride".
In Brazil, on the other side, I sense a lot of despair, something like "We don't really believe in it ourselves but we have to because we're expected to do it."
Besides everything else, this will make the difference tonight.
Edit: Just some thought that occured to me while doing the dishes:
For Germany, it's more about GAINING something: Ultimate honour. For Brazil, it's about probably failing to archieve something everybody expected you to do.
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I don't think it's fair to say they are blowing their emotions out of proportion. We don't know how they feel and likely will never either. For them, they see 80,000 people wearing their heart on their sleeve belting out their anthem so what example would it send if they didn't do the same? It's almost a lose-lose for them. If you sing with "normal" levels of excitement, the Brazilian fans will question your loyalty and passion. Sing too emotionally and other casual non Brazilian fans will claim they are doing it for the cameras.
Please to god let the Germans steamroller these egotistical grief junkies.
Tell that the vast majority of players and coaches, who voted him as the best player of the Bundesliga season by a large margin. His whole season was good. He was also our most dangerous offensive player shortly before the WC.
He answered this question more than once already: the CL semi finals vs. Madrid and the final last year, the game, where we trashed Madrid in the second quarterfinal without half of our starter or the Cup semi final this year. He also offered more goal threat in the Semi Final vs. Italy 2012 in a few minutes than Özil all game. Müller is an outstanding big game player, but Reus has also the ability to turn up when it really counts.
Why do you think that?
Brazil has home advantage, most likeley a referee in their favor (but that has to be seen). With Neymar and Silva out, I wouldnt go as far as calling them favourites. Brazil lacks attacking power with Neymar being injured, it will be very hard to score for them. I cannot see Jo or Fred causing the German defense much trouble, maybe only Oscar and Hulk can do that, though Oscar really has to step up his game in order to do that.
Dante is a good defender but it will still be blow for Brazil as Silva is probably a better defender but also their captain. I can see Brazil grinding out a draw and going for penaltys with the negative tactics Scolari is using this WC. Wouldnt be surprised if he plays Gustavo and Ramires and going full defensive, speculating on set pieces and counters.
I meant with the bookies. I fully expect the Germans to win, probably in 90 mins.
You mean within the 12 rounds?
I really hope Germany beat Brazil. I don't even like Germany that much, but I really dislike Brazil after watching them during the World Cup.
Germany to win by 2 or more is 6/1. I mean, come on!
Expecting Germany to win comfortably tonight. Neymar is going to be a huge loss for Brazil, they look like an ordinary side (on paper) without Neymar.
Everyone thinks that germany will win, so they will loose :/
Yeah, decent odds for a home run too.
The Coati have spoken. Germany to win on penalties.
Germany vs holland final hopefully whilst brazil and Argentina scrap it out for third place.
Until February/March all of the Dortmund fans complained about him a lot. I did not watch many of his matches so I am no expert with that. He packed out really big in March and April but his numbers until then were nothing special. On matchday 25 he had 17 goals/assists (rank 8) - on matchday 34 30 goals/assists (rank 2 behind Lewa). The polls are made in May/June - people then already forgot what a great year e.g. an Arjen Robben had whereas you only see the impressive show of Reus in the recent weeks. It is like with the Cup final were everybody already seemed to have forgotten the record season Bayern had just because of the loss against Real and being slobby in the league. From open play both Götze and Müller have better stats than he has his April/May included.
The CL semi finals vs Madrid were purely counter attacking matches that played to his strengths. And he did not convert in the CL final or the Cup final this season. But it is just not enough matches to make a judgement here. He is not hiding - that is for sure. The question is if he is able to pack out his best then...
Some people think that he would be a real big upgrade or would have been the World Cup star - that is something you cannot tell. The German system is not really the Dortmund system which really plays to his strengths. Play him in a similar role like Robben for the Netherland and he probably would give you a show.
He's done amazing things in Brazilian league that made it much more entertaining for 3 years, nevermind Libertadores
He's done feck all?
We don't give a flying feck about european football, we can appreciate what he's done in our domestic league which is way more important for us
A question for the Brazilians, is there any critisism of your style of play in the Brazilain media?
Does anyone else dislike Brazil as much as me?
I'm fed up with the media fawning over them, fed up with their fouling, fed up with their dodgy white shorts and white socks combo, fed up with David Luiz's stupid head, fed up with Neymar, fed up with 'Samba Samba' when all they play is disjointed, physical football.
And fat Ronaldo - can't stand the bloke. I can't put my finger on why, he just irks me! The fat bastard.
I'm fed up with the media fawning over them, fed up with their fouling, fed up with their dodgy white shorts and white socks combo, fed up with David Luiz's stupid head, fed up with Neymar, fed up with 'Samba Samba' when all they play is disjointed, physical football.
And fat Ronaldo - can't stand the bloke. I can't put my finger on why, he just irks me! The fat bastard.
So many people hating them, that they're about to be loved, out of the usual counter-reaction to fashionable opinions. With a bit of luck, it might happen before the match against Germany as well. I know I'm switching my allegiance as we speak.
How can you hate such a great player?
I don't get all the hate .. Most players are reserved/shy or good guys, like Gustavo, Fernandinho, Oscar, Willian, Hulk, Paulinho, Dante...
the only players with cnut potential are Marcelo, Alves and David, but they haven't done one of their cnutish antics yet this WC
the only players with cnut potential are Marcelo, Alves and David, but they haven't done one of their cnutish antics yet this WC
I honestly couldn't tell you why (I don't hate him either, that's a strong word).
He just annoys me - has one of those faces I could punch.
I read a report in Globo about it. They mentioned how international press has been criticizing Brazil's style of play, and whilst the Brazilian pundits they interviewed about it showed understanding towards that opinion, they then focused on praising the good stuff, like the effort. I don't know if this is representative of the rest of Brazilian media but I don't expect much criticism while the results are pouring in. General feeling seems to be one of support and focus on the end, not the means.
Easily the most overrated player in the world, it's sickening. Done feck all in Europe, was good in Brazil, which is not saying much at all (hence the over exaggeration from all the Brazilian fans).
Also Brazil have been horrible hosts, can't stand their fans and their constant complaining. Germany will destroy them.
I actually kind of hope Brazil win so there's a possibility Argentina face them in the finals and destroy them, that would be unbelievably gratifying. Would make Mess the undisputed GOAT.
It's very easy to come to hate what you used to love. I think a lot of people are having the reaction of lovers who find their beloved in a clinch with someone else.
Maybe it escapes Brazilian people but the rest of the world still believes in Jogo Bonito. Brazil 2014 was meant to be the World Cup that put the fun back in football, and in many ways it has it's just not been Brazil's doing. Lots of people can't accept that. They feel Brazil have betrayed what made them beautiful, and they feel betrayed by Brazil.
It's a very emotional reaction without much rationality behind it. Brazil haven't suddenly turned into Honduras, so I don't get the hate, but many people are waking up to the fact every thing they believed about Brazil is a lie. That causes revulsion and that revulsion is being fired at Brazil's players.
Indeed. What exactly has Neymar done in the 2 KO stage games anyway to warrant this massive loss they are all claiming? Square root of feck all from what I can see and if he was playing at RB Lahm would have had him in his pocket tonight anyway. Everytime I see them play it's Oscar who is their main threat and the player who performs at a high level regardless of the opposition.
Jesus, the amount of Brazil hate in this thread 
People have gone way overboard. Winning the WC at home is extra special and hence Brazilians have gone a bit OTT.
Fontaine is also right, Brazilian teams have been slammed since 94 for dropping the Samba style. Even in 2002, Scolari coped a lot of criticism for playing a defensive brand of football. It's just that the three Rs were able to work up their magic upfront.
This time, they just don't have the talent. Oscar and Neymar are the only standouts and they are no where near their peak.
People have gone way overboard. Winning the WC at home is extra special and hence Brazilians have gone a bit OTT.
Fontaine is also right, Brazilian teams have been slammed since 94 for dropping the Samba style. Even in 2002, Scolari coped a lot of criticism for playing a defensive brand of football. It's just that the three Rs were able to work up their magic upfront.
This time, they just don't have the talent. Oscar and Neymar are the only standouts and they are no where near their peak.
I can respect that, but why are we the only team that is supposed to amuse people?
Besides, did people take a look at our fecking generation of attacking players?
Its impressive enough that we won confederations cup and reached semis beating Colombia etc, and people want a show? With these players?
Heck, Argentina and Holland should be much more hated. Look at Argentina's attacking players delivering absurdly dull games
Holland tied Costa Rica 0-0 and no one flamed them.. Yet we beat two teams that are 10x more tough
Germany win for me tonight, without Neymar Brazil are just not good enough to beat Germany, the game tonight needs a strong unbiased ref, hopefully we will get it and a proper good game of football
As you well know, being from Brazil, as much as people like the football that's come to be associated with Argentina and Holland they're not Brazil.
Why are you the only team that is supposed to amuse people? You invented Joga Bonito. For decades Brazil has been everyone's second team, the team everyone wants to watch. Now lots of people are waking up to the new reality. They don't like it.
Personally I don't care, I find it sad that Brazil have had to kick their way through some matches, but they're not the only ones as you say. I just think some people are taking it worse than others. You gotta understand lots of people grew up with images of Socrates and Zico, Romario and Bebeto, Ronaldo and Rivaldo. They close their eyes and they get warm feelings of what was, seeing what is now...like I said its irrational but humans aren't always rational.
I expect a really tight game. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it goes to penalties... Brazil to sneek it (just)!
Order of preference
Germany
Brazil
Netherlands
Argentina
So gwan Germany.
Germany
Brazil
Netherlands
Argentina
So gwan Germany.
Definitely think Germany will win this but I'd personally love to see a Brazil-Argentina final above all. The quality of football may not be that great and Brazil would probably spend half the game kicking chunks out of Messi, but on the face of it it's just the perfect way to end the World Cup in Brazil - particularly given last time it was there it was an (unforgettable) all-South American affair.
Because that's what Brazilian teams have done in the past. When people think of Brazilian footballers, the first thing that comes to mind is flair. Brazil has produced many entertaining and skillful players in the past. They were really fun to watch, especially Ronaldinho. Therefore, people expect that. However, those who pay close attention to football know that Brazil just don't have the kind of players that they had in the past. This is why I can understand why People, especially Brazilians, look up to Neymar. They know he's the one player on that team that is similar to the kind of Brazilian players they're used to seeing in the past.
Essentially, Brazilian teams in the past were so skillful and entertaining that people expected that this time around. You can't expect the majority of people who turn up on WC years only to know the Brazilian team well. That's just naive.