Full agree.This will be my last post on the subject because I don't want to overly contribute to derailing the thread.
After spending a vast amount of money I would at the very least expect the manager to have implemented the plan he spoke about implementing almost 3 years ago. But sadly I still don't see us implementing a high press with counter pressing capabilities with little movement between the lines. I fear our progress is like a house of cards that could collapse easily if the likes of Klopp and Tuchel hit their stride. But I'm not afraid in the long run because I fully believe a experienced coach who understands the modern requirements will take us to the next level. I hope it's Solskjaer but I'm very doubtful.
Gravenberch or Camavinga would be exciting. I'm in total agreement about rice's fee.Luckhurst in the below piece reports that Rice will cost more than Sancho.
He also goes on-to mention Ryan Gravenberch, Eduardo Camavinga and Bissouma as possible targets
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-kante-20712449.amp?__twitter_impression=true
That's not what you originally posted. Say what you mean and meaning what you say and all that.I’m saying - read it slowly - other than putting a valuation beside each player on his list, he’s not involved with the financial talks. It’s not his job.
In terms of wages he probably says something like “I see him as amongst the top 3 players at the club”. That’ll give the money men an idea of what they should pay him. Does Ole get involved in the nitty gritty? No. What is so hard to understand?
I like Rice the player. I think he’s got huge potential to get better.That's not what you originally posted. Say what you mean and meaning what you say and all that.
Anyway, back on track, because that is your aim.
Rice is decent, he's not a specialist dm, but he is an all rounder. Which is better than just having a desroyer in there.
Is he good enough for Utd? Probably, because he's at least better than Fred and McT.
Is he worth 80 million? No.
In order to see the fair comparison, you need to look at whether the player has proved himself or not, not whether he has to go on loan or no. The point to go on loan is to prove himself. Dean already proved himself that's why he doesn't need to go on loan anymore to be valued for 25m-30m price.It wasn't my argument, you used Tomori as an example of why we could get X amount and I was pointing out it isn't a fair comparison as they were only willing to spend that on Tomori as they had him on loan for year and he performed well.
That's true, but Hummels had played 200+ appearances for Dortmund, so it is slightly different, but I take your point. They could see it as a good investment, provided they think they can get a bigger fee in the future.
Eh?Oh god this is like Merson declaring Arsenal “can now play Ozil again” after signing Partey. I guarantee he hadn’t seen him play 4 full matches when he announced this. But he was black and athletic and reminded him of an essien or similar. Now we have a white guy who has good physique and gets around the pitch. It can’t pass for shit. Roy Keane?
Tell me you've never seen Roy Keane play without telling me you've never seen Roy Keane play.Oh god this is like Merson declaring Arsenal “can now play Ozil again” after signing Partey. I guarantee he hadn’t seen him play 4 full matches when he announced this. But he was black and athletic and reminded him of an essien or similar. Now we have a white guy who has good physique and gets around the pitch. It can’t pass for shit. Roy Keane?
It makes zero sense to keep one of Dean & DDG again. How can we allow ourselves to have 500k p/w for goalkeepers? Dean is on 100k p/w, that's affordable.James is only a backup and not really up to PL standard, I am not sure how many clubs would be interest? I think he might go for around 15m?
Lingard would attract some concrete buyers after his loan to West Ham, I personally think we should sell him for at least 30m, but let’s see.
Dean I don’t know. He is on high wage, and I never heard we are looking to sell him. Why even suggest him in our sell list?
So realistically, Lingard for 30m, and James for 15m (depends if any takers)
Yeah have said it repeatedly that Utd need to be exploring all options in this position because there could well be an opportunity to sign someone who could do just as good job but for a more reasonable priceSurely there are players out there who can do the same job for a lot less money? I’d invest big in Sancho no problem. Not sure about Rice though.
Yeah certain this only happens if we can involve Jesse in the deal because no way are we slapping down £80m for himI like Rice the player. I think he’s got huge potential to get better.
is he worth 80m? No I think no one should be that amount. Especially not cash.
however would I give 50m + a player we don’t use? Yes.
Is not worth 80m nor Jessie + 50m. He is a good player, but never worth that money. I would leave him and see other options and sell Lingard to another team. Selling Lingard easily for 20m and buying Gravenberch, Camavinga or Bissouma who would all cost less than 40m. Making us only upgrade that position for only 20m instead of 50m. This will give us margin in buying a decent CB and Sancho.Yeah certain this only happens if we can involve Jesse in the deal because no way are we slapping down £80m for him
Yet we still give Dean new contract last year, and he start playing more games this season, so it makes zero sense to sell him too.It makes zero sense to keep one of Dean & DDG again. How can we allow ourselves to have 500k p/w for goalkeepers? Dean is on 100k p/w, that's affordable.
You need to understand that we gave Dean a new contract so we can convince him to stay and telling him that he will get fair amount of minutes in 20/21 season. Has that been the case though? Because I don't think it has been the case since Dean only featured as starter in 12 PL games and only 1 UCL game. He wants that regular spot and clearly with DDG around, he is likely not getting one and it's more unrealistic to sell DDG with his wages.Yet we still give Dean new contract last year, and he start playing more games this season, so it makes zero sense to sell him too.
The thread's active because people are trying to convince the other half that we should sign him. Then there are a few who would want him but not at the price.Show me any credible sources for this?
I’ve seen Jamie Jackson with a scattergun piece and nothing else. It’s clearly a no-goer with barely any rumours yet the thread is pretty much a sticky.
Why? He knows he will have to fight with De Gea for place in starting line up, and will be mostly in squad rotation or as backup when he signed contract with us. He has played 26 games for us this season, as compared to 36 games from De Gea. To be realistic, we have already been giving him a lot of starts, I don’t think he could complain much, and I didn’t hear him complaining lately either.You need to understand that we gave Dean a new contract so we can convince him to stay and telling him that he will get fair amount of minutes in 20/21 season. Has that been the case though? Because I don't think it has been the case since Dean only featured as starter in 12 PL games and only 1 UCL game. He wants that regular spot and clearly with DDG around, he is likely not getting one and it's more unrealistic to sell DDG with his wages.
This is what I'm hoping happens. That Lingard's sale funds us signing someone other than Rice in midfield.Is not worth 80m nor Jessie + 50m. He is a good player, but never worth that money. I would leave him and see other options and sell Lingard to another team. Selling Lingard easily for 20m and buying Gravenberch, Camavinga or Bissouma who would all cost less than 40m. Making us only upgrade that position for only 20m instead of 50m. This will give us margin in buying a decent CB and Sancho.
Because he wanted to leave last year for regular spot but we gave him new contract to convinced him by promising him to play more. Clearly given that he only featured 12 league games when DDG went off for family and only trusted to play 1 UCL game. You think he will get that amount of games again? Unless if DDG's wife is planning to have another baby this year.Why? He knows he will have to fight with De Gea for place in starting line up, and will be mostly in squad rotation or as backup when he signed contract with us. He has played 26 games for us this season, as compared to 36 games from De Gea. To be realistic, we have already been giving him a lot of starts, I don’t think he could complain much, and I didn’t hear him complaining lately either.
He did also played many cup games and European games though, you can’t just pretend he didn’t. 26 games is a lot for him if you ask me at the beginning of the season (that’s over 40% of our games), I don’t think anyone with reasonable mind, including he himself, would have expected more, especially when he has to face competition from the highest paid keeper in the world. I agree though keeping 2 first team keeper at high wages would be luxury for us, we should let one of them go at one point, but I highly doubt it would be Dean this summer.Because he wanted to leave last year for regular spot but we gave him new contract to convinced him by promising him to play more. Clearly given that he only featured 12 league games when DDG went off for family and only trusted to play 1 UCL game. You think he will get that amount of games again? Unless if DDG's wife is planning to have another baby this year.
Having 500k p/w for keepers just too much and makes zero sense now that DDG doesn't make those crazy mistakes like in 18/19 and 19/20.
If it’s Europa League and Cup games, Romero also did in 19/20. The league and UCL are the major ones and clearly before DDG left for his family matter to Spain, Dean hasn’t got the manager’s trust to play in those league and UCL matches. I’m afraid 500k p/w for goalkeeper squad is madness and we have reason to cut it down and the most realistic one is Dean Henderson to be sold not DDG.He did also played many cup games and European games though, you can’t just pretend he didn’t. 26 games is a lot for him if you ask me at the beginning of the season, I don’t think anyone with reasonable mind, including he himself, would have expected more, especially when he has to face competition from the highest paid keeper in the world. I agree though keeping 2 first team keeper at high wages would be luxury for us, we should let one of them go at one point, but I highly doubt it would be Dean this summer.
Given that De Gea and Henderson are playing at around same level, I don’t see it make much sense to sell the younger one who is in lower wage.If it’s Europa League and Cup games, Romero also did in 19/20. The league and UCL are the major ones and clearly before DDG left for his family matter to Spain, Dean hasn’t got the manager’s trust to play in those league and UCL matches. I’m afraid 500k p/w for goalkeeper squad is madness and we have reason to cut it down and the most realistic one is Dean Henderson to be sold not DDG.
But it is the realistic choice because none can afford DDG wages without letting him go for free like Sanchez.Given that De Gea and Henderson are playing at around same level, I don’t see it make much sense to sell the younger one who is in lower wage.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest problem with Rice, aside from his likely price tag, that he would need the right partner. Someone who puts pressure on opponents further forward, like Kante and Fred do, and his partner should be a creative player on top of that, because Rice simply isn't. Pogba is a creative player, but he isn't one to put pressure on opponents. Fred puts pressure on opponents, but him coupled with Rice, wouldn't solve our issues from a playmaking point of view in central midfield.There is one thing Rice is good at it - maybe the best in the P.L after Kante - which is always forgotten when people look at stats. He is exceptionally good at quickly putting pressure on the opponent - he doesn't always tackle, he doesn't always win the ball - but he is frequently there making it harder for the opponent to play the ball, or at least play the right ball. That is the kind of player I would say we haven't had since Hargreaves - who was exceptionally good at it.
That was the main reason why he was one of the players I wanted most about 12 months ago.
The problem I see with Rice - isn't Rice himself, more the fact that his strengths are too similar to McTominay and Fred, they all have their strengths defensively. At the same time I understand OGS - with Bruno and Pogba on the pitch we probably need 2 strong defensive midfielders. Bruno works hard but his style of play creates a lot of counter-attacks because he always go for a winning ball. And Pogba - well, let's just be honest and say that most good ball-players can walk past him him.
And perhaps the ability Rice has to prevent counter-attacks is just what United needs
Which is also a good option as letting De Gea go for free will save us 20m per year (if there’s a buyer) and in total may save us another 60m for length of his existing contract?But it is the realistic choice because none can afford DDG wages without letting him go for free like Sanchez.
Mate, let’s not making things up to suit your argument. Letting DDG for free save us less than 20m per year. And who’s going to buy him? The club who needs a keeper is Dortmund and it’s more realistic Dortmund to afford Dean’s wages than DDG. DDG would still asking minimum around 200k p/w at least, there is no way he will agree with Dortmund to take massive pay cut to 100k p/w. You have to consider the buyers not just us wanting to get rid players, thus why I only listed three players who have value and wanted by other clubs.Which is also a good option as letting De Gea go for free will save us 20m per year (if there’s a buyer) and in total may save us another 60m for length of his existing contract?
How ironic, as you started all these “making up things” here when you suggest we would let Dean off this summer. Point being, we rarely let our players go for pure money incentive, we only sell those we don’t want keep or they don’t want to stay. And both scenario doesn’t apply to Dean.Mate, let’s not making things up to suit your argument. Letting DDG for free save us less than 20m per year. And who’s going to buy him? The club who needs a keeper is Dortmund and it’s more realistic Dortmund to afford Dean’s wages than DDG. DDG would still asking minimum around 200k p/w at least, there is no way he will agree with Dortmund to take massive pay cut to 100k p/w.
I got it what’s the problem here, you are not reading the original question. The original question was ‘’who would you sell?’’ not ‘’who shall the club sell?’’How ironic, as you started all these “making up things” here when you suggest we would let Dean off this summer. Point being, we rarely let our players go for pure money incentive, we only sell those we don’t want keep or they don’t want to stay.
He's been average against us and we were proper badHe’s controlling England’s midfield. His positioning is top notch
No we wouldn't mate. Believe meGive me any of the Austrian midfield over him any day. For the money we'd be much better going for Sabitzer.
That’s going to be hard to find. Although he wasn’t too clever against the press.If he’s not a good passer then he’s not right. Simple as that. We need someone like Carrick.
I think he's class, seem him a lot for Leipzig and he has a skillset that none of our midfielders have.No we wouldn't mate. Believe me
