But a big reason the thread is so big is because this place is split on signing him, his price etc. hence the size of the thread as he's a lad that generates plenty of discussion.
Declan Rice
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a DM is different to being just ball winner though. You need to be positioning well and be the last man to protect the defense when the opposition player went past the no 8. While McFred is more ball winner that they are everywhere and press rather than relying on positioning. Thus, the comparison is unfair.
I disagree. The market now after the pandemic should be similar to what it was a few years ago. That's why people are talking about Lingard for 20-25m. In today's market (without pandemic), he should be 40m at least with the season and performances he had.
Laurie Whitwell and Andy Mitten have mentioned our interest in him they seem fairly credible .
Give me a credible article showing he’s in our transfer plans?
So it’s the same with James, Lingard, & Dean that they are not deadwoods just because they no longer fits in manager’s plan, they are still players with good value that wanted by others and clubs.
Therefore, you cannot compare them with deadwoods that we struggled to sell in the past.
Spot on, good post. It would also help if we were able to shift our deadwood for decent money but yet we continue to either extend their contracts and give out ludicrous wages, which drops their re-sale value significantly.
You're never going to get a fully credible factual article on this sort of guff though are you, not until the deal is practically done, feels like you're going to discredit whatever is presented to you.
Given the deals that have been going on across Europe so far it's clear there isn't a lot of money about so I'd imagine clubs will be trying to tempted clubs with player plus cash deals.
I'd give them Lingard and Andreas Peirera as part of the deal, West Ham need to bulk up their squad and Andreas could be a useful squad addition for them.
I'd give them Lingard and Andreas Peirera as part of the deal, West Ham need to bulk up their squad and Andreas could be a useful squad addition for them.
I'm sure Moyes with love a bit of Phil Jones, throw him in a potential deal too.
Why does a player who has proved himself that he’s good need to go on loan to perform to make justification? He’s not Lingard or Smalling, that needs to go on loan to prove themselves their value again. He had done it last season and this season and he’s currently and been in England international for full year and rated highly.
If I don’t take into account massive wages our players on, I would have choose to sell DDG who are on 375k p/w. But in reality I do, thus I chose Dean instead and his wages is not massive.
Every credible source in football is linking us to Sancho, so it makes sense his thread is incredibly active.
I come in here expecting news and it’s never anything.
No they are talking about that figure as he’s almost out of contract mainly
I think Ole is just focused on players for the team who will fit in at the club. The money is someone else’s job, Ole would have given alternatives too
Tuanzebe plus lingard
If we can't do better than signing Rice for stupid money, then we need new scouts.
I was using your example as to why they paid the price you quoted. I still haven't seen anyone pay the sort of money directly, preceding a loan, your quoting we'll get for him.
Dean's on 120k a week, for most clubs, that would make him one of, if not THE top earner at the clubs looking to buy him.
As much as I like Rice, I do agree with this. These known expensive players aren't the only way to build a team. We don't have to always shop from that part of the market to be successful, and it does raise questions why we don't shop a bit smarter. Seeing as spending big hasn't exactly always worked out anyway.
But the window hasn't even opened yet, we might be in for a lovely surprise in this department. I don't think we will be, I think we want Rice and if we don't get him we'll get no one, but I'd love to be wrong
Surely around Europe there is a CDM who can play that role. If we are signing the likes of Maguire, Cavani, Sancho, Donny, Bruno, why do we need scouts? all these players are established players.
We have loads of scouts yet we cannot find a Fernandinho, Fabinho, Casemeiro, Kante, Ndidi that all the other clubs seem to find.
Rice is a little bit different because I see genuine leadership quality in him as well as quality and he’s likely to spend the best years of his career with us.
I’m more worried about this insistence on ball playing or left-footed defenders being preferred over an all-rounder who you know actually can defend well.
I’m more worried about this insistence on ball playing or left-footed defenders being preferred over an all-rounder who you know actually can defend well.
Semantics imo. You can have different types of defensive mids, ballwinners, destroyers, defensive shithouses. Call them what you want, but the job description is largely the same. Even if we assume Rice is much better at positioning (something i've seen no evidence of) what else does he bring to the table that Fred and McTominay lack?
Our problem is not that Fred and McTominay does not carry out their defensive duties, its that they dont posess enough technical and passing ability to make transitions from defense to attack go more smoothly. Imo, we need someone more like Carrick or Scholes. Someone who are comfortable on the ball and can spot and pick out runs behind the defense
What example? You provided me no example. There is a reason why I didn't list Dalot, Pereira, Jones and others who still need to go on loan to justify their value. Dean Henderson justifies his value to be a very good keeper for PL or Bundesliga.
He's actually on 100k p/w. He will be on Dortmund's 9th list of top earner with the same wages (8th if Sancho leaves).
I think what people expect is the one who sits. Thus why people mentioned about the lack of player who sits like Rodri which is why I recommended him, Allan, and Ndidi in comparison.
I think point why people want Rice so we can release McT, Fred and VDB in their best role which no 8, be more adventurous and allow them to go and contribute more in attack. Like what Rice did to Soucek.
You were talking about Tomori going for 25m+ and why couldn't Dean do the same, but the only reason he did go for that is because he spent a season on loan and we'd need the money now in order to justify your net spend - or at least an obligation, which Tomori did not have. Your Martinez example as well, he was on pittance, so they could treble his salary and still only add about £8-9m on a 4 year deal. A similar deal would add £20m to the full deal for Dean, I still don't see a club willing to do it yet.
My mistake, read a wrong report. Dortmund haven't spent over £30m on one player for god knows how long/ever maybe? I don't see them being the buyers, I see it more likely being Spurs or someone and that would make him equal 5th at Spurs.
Again, I hope you're right, but I am yet to see any indication anyone will be willing to spend £30m + his big wage.
Tomori needed to go on loan because he hadn't prove himself so your argument about Dean needs to go on loan doesn't make sense. He has proved himself.
I did say 25m-30m though not just 30m or over 30m, and they spent similar amount on old player like Hummels with 175k p/w. If anything 20m-30m has been Dortmund's average transfer fees on player. Affordable fees and wages for them especially on a keeper who is still young that can offer many years for the club and can still be sold for higher value to English Clubs later on.
Yeah it’s not an Ole only problem so to speak. It’s the club in general and our recruitment. But as a club we definitely give more power to managers when it comes to recruitment so again he needs to surround himself with better and more qualified staff who can potentially prevent things such as ‘signing van der beek for 40 million’.
It wasn't my argument, you used Tomori as an example of why we could get X amount and I was pointing out it isn't a fair comparison as they were only willing to spend that on Tomori as they had him on loan for year and he performed well.
That's true, but Hummels had played 200+ appearances for Dortmund, so it is slightly different, but I take your point. They could see it as a good investment, provided they think they can get a bigger fee in the future.
James is only a backup and not really up to PL standard, I am not sure how many clubs would be interest? I think he might go for around 15m?
Lingard would attract some concrete buyers after his loan to West Ham, I personally think we should sell him for at least 30m, but let’s see.
Dean I don’t know. He is on high wage, and I never heard we are looking to sell him. Why even suggest him in our sell list?
So realistically, Lingard for 30m, and James for 15m (depends if any takers)
I agree 100%. As much as I rate Rice, who has a lot of potential to grow further, his talked about fee of £80m/£90m would make me question our scouts if we go ahead with this deal. Surely there is a player in Europe equally as good as him, if not better going for around £50m... £60m at a push?
I hope I am wrong and Rice becomes an integral part of our squad for the next 8-10 years. Then you can say it's money well spent.
Not really on the scouts, it would be on the manager and DOF/Technical director.
Tchouameni
Kamara
Soumare
Zakaria
Locatelli
Merino
Zubeldia
Laimer
Brozovic
Just from the top of my head. Is there really no one among them that would do the same job as Rice (or even better) for half the cost (some of them even more than half)?
Kamara
Soumare
Zakaria
Locatelli
Merino
Zubeldia
Laimer
Brozovic
Just from the top of my head. Is there really no one among them that would do the same job as Rice (or even better) for half the cost (some of them even more than half)?
Yes there is, and you can also add Neves among those - apparantly on his way out of Wolves as must raise money and as Fosun are restructuring their commitment..
That reminds of David O'Leary at Leeds.
Can I have these players Peter?
Sure thing thing Dave, you want them all? No problem Dave, you leave that with me we'll sort out the money.
Only after did he find out that they paid 22m million for Rio and were to pay Seth Johnson about 30k a week. I am sure there were others too.
Considering they sold rio for around 42 million 2 seasons later i think that more than covered the extra 15k a week or whatever it was that johnson fluked (around 3m over the 4 year contract) so yeah let managers manage rather than worry about the money
Nothing like Leeds because you had a chairman who just approved everything.
Our beloved executive vice chairman is pretty trigger happy when it comes to shelling out huge contracts to players who may or may not even have any value to us.
Yeah, I mean it's not like the lads have spent a billion on players and handed out massive contracts for nearly half a million a week. None of that happened.
The premise that he just says here's a list of players I want and lets someone else just decide on the money is exactly what Leeds was like.
You think he doesn't know the price or salary expectations of the players he wants? That he doesn't know what the budget is? He just gives them a list of players regardless of how much money is available?
You do know what happened Leeds after that right?
yeah - but the ferdinand example is probably the wrong one to cite in that respect as it actually worked out remarkably well for them... unlike many many other examples you chose not to use
I picked the two biggest feckups. Because he told them to pay about half of that, they could have gotten him for a lot less.
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