Declan Rice

[RUCK4444]

We were. In was even reported he was asking Shaw & maguire what life is like at United,

I’m not quite sure why United fans wouldn’t be happy being linked to him. I genuinely do t get it.
is it the money? Cos they moan when it’s not spent as well. Is it the type of player? I’ve seen comments saying he can’t pass, which is a myth.
Is it because they only see him play for England? Then watch more footy

I’m always happy for us to spend money and ironically I’m constantly banging on about us needing to sign a top DM (I bore myself with it.)

That said he just doesn’t fill me with confidence that he’s going to be an elite player, to me he looks like a CB that has been pushed forward into the DM position. His breakup play is good, passing and vision limited.

I suppose it’s a bit like the Maguire transfer, you either back it or are wary of it, I was sold on Maguire and wanted the transfer because I could see the player in there and that he was ready for a step up, I just don’t see the huge clamour for Rice like many do.

£70 mill for a player to break up play on the edge of the box but offer little else? I’m just not sure.

 

[OrcaFat]

Lingard can sign for free in 6 months, if we get 15m for him we’ve done well.

Yeah, I was forgetting that. But, in that case, Lingard plus £60m could get the deal done, you think? If so what are we frickin waiting for?

 

[Ramshock]

I’m always happy for us to spend money and ironically I’m constantly banging on about us needing to sign a top DM (I bore myself with it.)

That said he just doesn’t fill me with confidence that he’s going to be an elite player, to me he looks like a CB that has been pushed forward into the DM position. His breakup play is good, passing and vision limited.

I suppose it’s a bit like the Maguire transfer, you either back it or are wary of it, I was sold on Maguire and wanted the transfer because I could see the player in there and that he was ready for a step up, I just don’t see the huge clamour for Rice like many do.

£70 mill for a player to break up play on the edge of the box but offer little else? I’m just not sure.

Rice could slide in at CB if needed and is a threat in the air, I am not a huge fan of the allegiance switching arse but lets not have him down as a one trick pony.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, I was forgetting that. But, in that case, Lingard plus £60m could get the deal done, you think? If so what are we frickin waiting for?

That’d be a terrible deal imo. 75m quid for Rice would be utterly bonkers.

 

[RUCK4444]

Rice could slide in at CB if needed and is a threat in the air, I am not a huge fan of the allegiance switching arse but lets not have him down as a one trick pony.

That’s not something I look for in a DM and certainly doesn’t mean he’s worth £80 mill or whatever craziness West Ham are talking.

I’m sure he will be a mainstay at a top 6 club, just not sure he’s shown much more than say Dier did initially at Spurs.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player, he’s good at breaking up play and that’s a key requirement for a DM of course, just think there are a lot of players out there that can do that.

 

[Kaos]

That’d be a terrible deal imo. 75m quid for Rice would be utterly bonkers.

It's ridiculously overpriced but at the end of the day its for a 22 year old premier league proven DM who could be a stalwart of our midfield for a decade, not to mention future England/United captain material. It would be similar to us signing Carrick, who in hindsight proved to be an absolute bargain.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It would be similar to us signing Carrick, who in hindsight proved to be an absolute bargain.

Well except that Carrick was already more accomplished, brilliant at screening and absolutely miles better on the ball.

 

[Kaos]

Well except that Carrick was already more accomplished, brilliant at screening and absolutely miles better on the ball.

Be that as it may, we still had posters here crying about the transfer, calling it a monumental waste of money for the player we were getting. Rice is objectively not worth anywhere near what the Cockneys want for him, but he'll be a good signing for whatever top team picks him up for years to come.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Be that as it may, we still had posters here crying about the transfer, calling it a monumental waste of money for the player we were getting. Rice is objectively not worth anywhere near what the Cockneys want for him, but he'll be a good signing for whatever top team picks him up for years to come.

This is what we bought below, people doubting it were being daft cause they wanted a big hard destroyer in there rather than an intelligent screener who was superb on the ball.
Nothing like the doubts on spending such a ridiculous sum on a far more limited footballer.

 

[Kaos]

This is what we bought below, people doubting it were being daft cause they wanted a big hard destroyer in there rather than an intelligent screener who was superb on the ball.
Nothing like the doubts on spending such a ridiculous sum on a far more limited footballer.

I don't disagree, Carrick was clearly the more accomplished and technically gifted player at his age, but that's not to say Rice wouldn't massively improve our midfield the same way Carrick did.

 

[Threesus]

Be that as it may, we still had posters here crying about the transfer, calling it a monumental waste of money for the player we were getting. Rice is objectively not worth anywhere near what the Cockneys want for him, but he'll be a good signing for whatever top team picks him up for years to come.

I have read about this. A United writer said that Fergie was sabotaging his legacy and how we brought a pirlo, when a gattuso was needed.
Many United fans always said that Garrick was too much of a sideways passer, still. I
Think it was only at fergies last season, did carrick finally start getting recognition.

 

[alexthelion]

I think it can be better spent than £90m odd for rice. Assuming we don’t have unlimited transfer funds it’s in my interest that we use it in a prudent way.

Get Camavinga, sell Pogba to PSG and get Rice.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't disagree, Carrick was clearly the more accomplished and technically gifted player at his age, but that's not to say Rice wouldn't massively improve our midfield the same way Carrick did.

I think it is to say that, Carrick improved our midfield because we went away from the idea of a destroyer type and understood that to be among the best in Europe, you needed an intelligent screener with incredible technical ability (Carrick, Pirlo, Busquests etc). No surprise it was our best ever period in Europe.

And now fans want a destroyer again that has limited technical ability and for a mega sum too, so I can’t get my head around it.

 

[RUCK4444]

This is what we bought below, people doubting it were being daft cause they wanted a big hard destroyer in there rather than an intelligent screener who was superb on the ball.
Nothing like the doubts on spending such a ridiculous sum on a far more limited footballer.

Carrick was twice the player Rice is now, I think Rice will be a top battler and defensive screen for a top six team and be a very solid player, what he won’t become is another Michael Carrick.

 

[RUCK4444]

I think it is to say that, Carrick improved our midfield because we went away from the idea of a destroyer type and understood that to be among the best in Europe, you needed an intelligent screener with incredible technical ability (Carrick, Pirlo, Busquests etc). No surprise it was our best ever period in Europe.

And now fans want a destroyer again that has limited technical ability and for a mega sum too, so I can’t get my head around it.

Whilst losing our most talented passer of the ball from deep areas in Pogba.

Imagine Rice and Fred as a pair. This is why I loathe the idea of losing Pogba.

We won’t have anybody capable of breaking the lines and really linking the play between defence and the forwards.

 

[OrcaFat]

That’d be a terrible deal imo. 75m quid for Rice would be utterly bonkers.

You won’t be alone in that opinion. Some people don’t rate him very highly.

But if we’re debating what an acceptable figure is, it is about how much value he can return on our investment over a period; that’s a lot more complicated than assessing, say, whether he is good at passing.

But my earlier point was that if it’s Lingard plus £60m, it’s effectively just £60m. With the bonus of getting rid of a burden on the wage bill.

 

[golden_blunder]

That’s not something I look for in a DM and certainly doesn’t mean he’s worth £80 mill or whatever craziness West Ham are talking.

I’m sure he will be a mainstay at a top 6 club, just not sure he’s shown much more than say Dier did initially at Spurs.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player, he’s good at breaking up play and that’s a key requirement for a DM of course, just think there are a lot of players out there that can do that.

He’s way better than Dier. Dier IS a one trick pony

 

[Stacks]

It's ridiculously overpriced but at the end of the day its for a 22 year old premier league proven DM who could be a stalwart of our midfield for a decade, not to mention future England/United captain material. It would be similar to us signing Carrick, who in hindsight proved to be an absolute bargain.

Very few players stay for 10 years.

Why have you elevated him to England captain material?? Being captain of a lesser club don't make you a national team captain

 

[golden_blunder]

I think it is to say that, Carrick improved our midfield because we went away from the idea of a destroyer type and understood that to be among the best in Europe, you needed an intelligent screener with incredible technical ability (Carrick, Pirlo, Busquests etc). No surprise it was our best ever period in Europe.

And now fans want a destroyer again that has limited technical ability and for a mega sum too, so I can’t get my head around it.

I want to be the best in England again. Even Jorginho has Kante. So rice + camavinga + Bruno will do nicely

 

[caid]

We were. In was even reported he was asking Shaw & maguire what life is like at United,

I’m not quite sure why United fans wouldn’t be happy being linked to him. I genuinely do t get it.
is it the money? Cos they moan when it’s not spent as well. Is it the type of player? I’ve seen comments saying he can’t pass, which is a myth.
Is it because they only see him play for England? Then watch more footy

I think hes worth about 40m, having to pay double that isn't a point in his favour but it goes beyond that. If i personally was in charge I'd consider him about the 4th best midfielder available to us and would basically never play him so wouldn't be inclined to spend anything on him.
I thought he was very ordinary for west ham (primarily against us because why would i watch a moyes team otherwise) but then people were making excuses for him in that set up too. Which is fair enough really but i can only judge on what i've seen from him. I've watched him about 5 - 10 times at this point which isn't a huge sample size so I'm not married to my view.
The areas he's lacking imo aren't going to be influenced that much by the set up though. Being available to receive a pass is a pretty basic skill in terms of positioning that some are better at than others for instance. The match against Ukraine wasn't an easy test in that regard because they did flood the middle of the pitch and however disappointing i found Rice, Phillips was worse. But there was a running theme for that first half that didn't look good for either of them. The entire match was played around the edges of the pitch, England had all the possession but it was going up the wing, across the face of goal or across the defence on the half way line. If there was nothing on in the box Sterling and Sancho always had to go back to the full back, who had to go to the cb's and back to full backs and up the other wing. It was very, very slow to change wings and pretty consistently cut out the midfield because they weren't available to receive a pass or weren't comfortable taking it on in the space they had. Mount was isolated and barely touched the ball, I'd consider it part of Rice's job to get the ball to him, which didn't happen enough. I thought he was being upstaged by Maguire and Stones for most of the first half.
Whether he can or cant pass doesn't seem that relevant if he attempts a vaguely ambitious pass once in a blue moon. Or when the manager lets him i guess. He seems tidy enough, keeping it simple is fine, i'm not looking for a pogba replacement in him. He just needs to get on the ball more and be more present when his team have the ball to change my mind about him.

 

[hobbers]

We could get Camavinga and someone like Saul for the same fee as Rice.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You have one option, Rice or Camavinga ?

Camavinga

 

[gajender]

In my opinion Carrick needed Hargreaves as he did in the CL then Rice would need a ball playing midfielder next to him.

This myth need to die Hargreaves hardly played alongside Carrick in Midfield in CL .

 

[Mark Pawelek]

CMs are arguably as important as any position in the team. If you control the midfield you control the game. It’s often said games are won and lost in midfield.

I think Rice will be sold sooner or later and his price will be whatever someone (could be us but maybe another club) is willing to pay. It will be not far off the £90m figure people keep talking about.

Not fair is it? But that’s the reality.

Reality is what some club pay; not what his agent or mum talks his price to. Who will pay £90m for Rice? Consider Sancho and Dembele. Both bought from Dortmund. One cost £73m+addons; the other cost: £121.5m. Which of the 2 would you prefer? Seems to me, United just adopted a new transfer negotiation strategy looking for value in the market and mainly going after players with 1 year left on their contract, or free (as with Heaton and Cavani).

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But my earlier point was that if it’s Lingard plus £60m, it’s effectively just £60m.

Well it’s not, because if we have 60m in the bank to spend on players and we sell Jesse to say West Ham or Fulham for 15m, we now have 75m in the bank to spend on players.

 

[OrcaFat]

Well it’s not, because if we have 60m in the bank to spend on players and we sell Jesse to say West Ham or Fulham for 15m, we now have 75m in the bank to spend on players.

Yes but that £15m is “free” money as Lingard doesn’t get a sniff here. But seriously, he is probably worth more as a makeweight, to oil the wheels, in the Rice deal, than his actual value given his contract situation.

 

[OrcaFat]

Reality is what some club pay; not what his agent or mum talks his price to. Who will pay £90m for Rice? Consider Sancho and Dembele. Both bought from Dortmund. One cost £73m+addons; the other cost: £121.5m. Which of the 2 would you prefer? Seems to me, United just adopted a new transfer negotiation strategy looking for value in the market and mainly going after players with 1 year left on their contract, or free (as with Heaton and Cavani).

True. But then, also, Mother knows best, remember.

We’ll find out in the next year or so, I imagine.

 

[Fortitude]

Reality is what some club pay; not what his agent or mum talks his price to. Who will pay £90m for Rice? Consider Sancho and Dembele. Both bought from Dortmund. One cost £73m+addons; the other cost: £121.5m. Which of the 2 would you prefer? Seems to me, United just adopted a new transfer negotiation strategy looking for value in the market and mainly going after players with 1 year left on their contract, or free (as with Heaton and Cavani).

People tend to forget - or not even consider - that West Ham want to keep players like Rice and become a perennial fixture in European football. The price set for Rice is in part intended to ward off suitors, or make them pay dearly for their interest. It doesn’t matter what anyone or any club that wants him thinks he’s worth - to his club, he’s a star player and intrinsic to their current ambitions and is thus priced accordingly.

The spanner in the works would be Rice intimating he wants to leave, at which point West Ham would have to decide whether to stick to their guns and keep an unhappy player or lower their demands and be more realistic about his value.

If England win the Euros with Rice as a main fixture, and he doesn’t want to leave, he’ll not be a viable target for anyone but Chelsea(Abramovich).

 

[golden_blunder]

I think hes worth about 40m, having to pay double that isn't a point in his favour but it goes beyond that. If i personally was in charge I'd consider him about the 4th best midfielder available to us and would basically never play him so wouldn't be inclined to spend anything on him.
I thought he was very ordinary for west ham (primarily against us because why would i watch a moyes team otherwise) but then people were making excuses for him in that set up too. Which is fair enough really but i can only judge on what i've seen from him. I've watched him about 5 - 10 times at this point which isn't a huge sample size so I'm not married to my view.
The areas he's lacking imo aren't going to be influenced that much by the set up though. Being available to receive a pass is a pretty basic skill in terms of positioning that some are better at than others for instance. The match against Ukraine wasn't an easy test in that regard because they did flood the middle of the pitch and however disappointing i found Rice, Phillips was worse. But there was a running theme for that first half that didn't look good for either of them. The entire match was played around the edges of the pitch, England had all the possession but it was going up the wing, across the face of goal or across the defence on the half way line. If there was nothing on in the box Sterling and Sancho always had to go back to the full back, who had to go to the cb's and back to full backs and up the other wing. It was very, very slow to change wings and pretty consistently cut out the midfield because they weren't available to receive a pass or weren't comfortable taking it on in the space they had. Mount was isolated and barely touched the ball, I'd consider it part of Rice's job to get the ball to him, which didn't happen enough. I thought he was being upstaged by Maguire and Stones for most of the first half.
Whether he can or cant pass doesn't seem that relevant if he attempts a vaguely ambitious pass once in a blue moon. Or when the manager lets him i guess. He seems tidy enough, keeping it simple is fine, i'm not looking for a pogba replacement in him. He just needs to get on the ball more and be more present when his team have the ball to change my mind about him.

Being pedantic for a moment, England won 4-0 against Ukraine and most of their goals came from supply of the wing. As you said Ukraine flooded the middle so presumably England’s instruction was to go wide and use the space

 

[golden_blunder]

Camavinga

So mostly McFred for you next season. Are you ok with that?

 

[Redcy]

Thats the honest problem with going for Camavinga, you end up with McFred next year, there is no way a player coming from Ligue 1 at 18, who by actual accounts didn't have his best season is coming into play 30+ games next year. I don't want Rice either, but taking Camavinga does mean our midfield stays as is for at least a year. Ideally you would want a low risk loan move for an older player who is better than McFred and buy camavinga for the future.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

100 percent. He could free up the other players and could be key to a functioning and balanced team

Why does the myth we have players 'who are not free persist?
Furthermore the imbalance t.hat has plagued the United team has been a dead right flank and an incompatible starting center defence pair. The idea a top 6 would address that imbalance is hilarious. Equally as bad as the idea signing a world class 9 would increase our goal out put with the said imbalance in existence

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thats the honest problem with going for Camavinga, you end up with McFred next year, there is no way a player coming from Ligue 1 at 18, who by actual accounts didn't have his best season is coming into play 30+ games next year. I don't want Rice either, but taking Camavinga does mean our midfield stays as is for at least a year. Ideally you would want a low risk loan move for an older player who is better than McFred and buy camavinga for the future.

He could happily start in England, maybe not from the first match but give him a few weeks to settle in.

We should be fine with them plus Pogba and Matic rotating in, DVB also if Ole can trust him. France is a very similar style of play to England, I bet Soumare has no issue when playing for Leicester.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

People say all he can do is win back the ball and is positionally good but is that not exactly what we want a defensive midfielder to do? ....

If that is the ONLY reason to get one. We can definitely do it under 70m. If you are going to spend 70m plus on a DM he had better be at peak Busquets and Kante or Vieira level. Else you a just being robbed. Period

 

[Volumiza]

There’s not many top DMs’ out there, even fewer premier league proven. I thing Rice would be a great player for us. So young too and already physically strong enough to guard the back line. Quoted figures are a lot but if we got 7 - 8 good years out of him then it wouldn't be a ridiculous fee. It would seem even less if we could show Pogba the door for money.

 

[golden_blunder]

He could happily start in England, maybe not from the first match but give him a few weeks to settle in.

We should be fine with them plus Pogba and Matic rotating in, DVB also if Ole can trust him. France is a very similar style of play to England, I bet Soumare has no issue when playing for Leicester.

You are discounting his age.

I am a fan but an investment in him, that’s what it is, is for the future. He’s not going to address a full season in the PL at 18

 

[captain666]

Very few players stay for 10 years.

Why have you elevated him to England captain material?? Being captain of a lesser club don't make you a national team captain

The ghost of Bobby Moore says hi!

 

[romufc]

Very few players stay for 10 years.

Why have you elevated him to England captain material?? Being captain of a lesser club don't make you a national team captain

If you listen to pundits, ex players who know him will tell you he has the qualities for a captain. He is capable of leading a dressing room.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The ghost of Bobby Moore says hi!

The ghost of Bobby would give you a history lesson and inform you that they were winners of the FA Cup and European Cup winners cup during that time frame.

 

[golden_blunder]

The ghost of Bobby Moore says hi!

Not to mention Pearce, shearer, platt if he’s a bit younger and doesn’t remember Moore etc