Yesterday Hoeneß attacked Kroos and said, he has nothing to do in their team anymore.
Declan Rice
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Not signing him would be huge. Near as important as signing a good player.
Good question and brings into question what the British football culture demands from a modern midfielder.
As a DM, he is miles ahead. McT is a very mediocre midfielder
He was having a much better game than Henderson offered up after he came on. Not sure what that sub was meant to achieve tbh. Henderson tried to press but completely alone as the rest of the team couldn't do it. More holes opened up in midfield and Henderson's distribution was very poor after he came on.
Putting Henderson on was the right thing to do, the problem was he took the wrong midfielder off.
Henderson was a special level of shite though
He wasn't great, better in the second period when we were getting on the ball more but yeah to begin with he was poor.
I think rice is better defensively but weaker offensively than mctom, but there really isn't a huge amount in it, he isn't worth the prices quoted especially considering I don't actually think he would be much of an upgrade if any upgrade at all.
No thanks. He’s a good player, but we should be after better. In this tournament we’ve seen some brilliant midfielders (Jorginho, Veratti, Pedri…). That’s where we need to be aiming. I appreciate that these players are hard to find, but I much rather persist with our current midfielders till we find the right fit, rather than spending so much money on someone who will just do a job.
It wouldn’t be as bad if he was a cheap punt from some lowly league, but he would cost a ton of money.
It wouldn’t be as bad if he was a cheap punt from some lowly league, but he would cost a ton of money.
What you are forgetting is - if we have one exceptionally good defensive midfielder, we can have a higher line, we can win the ball back quicker and we are much less vulnerable to counter-attacks.
we will have a higher line with varane, with henderson being a better sweeper than DDG also.
Rice is no better than Fred or Mctominay, the euros has proven that plenty for me. Lots of players can look good in a tightly knit team with little space between the lines, but when it opens up he doesn’t look anywhere near as good as people make out.
I’ll be amazed if we pursue him this summer.
Agree and one name you have not mentioned was hardly played at the Euros is Gravengberch from Ajax ( de boer preferred van Roon) I would rather go for him rather than Rice
This thread makes me very pleased I wasn't on the Caf when we signed Carrick.
Carrick was already a class midfielder at Spurs having been a class midfielder at West Ham. Don't think Rice is in the same league...as yet. He may turn out to be a very good player
There was a complete meltdown in here....
Anyone got a thread from 2006 when Carrick was signed? Would love to read it.
But these are different players. If Pogba stays, we have enough drive forward (Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Shaw etc.). What we lack is a midfielder with exceptional defending and positioning attributes. IMO, Rice fits that very well. The only problem will be his price.
You think Rice is exceptional at defending and positioning? Can he become as good as Casemiro?
No idea. But from all young DMs, he's one of the better options. The other names that I hear are just impossible to get. No way will Pedri or Verratti join us, so we need to look at realistic alternatives (and both are not really DMs - so if Pogba stays, I believe we need a specialist next to him).
Glad I wasn't around
The funny thing is: the arguments were the same as we here today: overpriced, not good enough, Spurs was his level, we should have gone for a fancy foreigner....
Exactly as I expected then.
This
The curse of the CafExactly as I expected then.
With praise coming from Xavi,Iniesta among others, Carrick was more fancy foreigner than most players
I think it was physical rather than tactical, at least that's what I assumed. The camera spent a good deal of time on Rice's face at one point and he looked noticeably exhausted. He also had cramp in one of the other games which was a sign of how these games took a toll on him. I think essentially he had run his race in this tournament after getting through a lot of work.
I agree it did make England a worse side, though. Henderson was miles off.
Couldn’t have gotten that more wrong, no-one wanted a fancy foreigner at all, certainly not after Veron. You’ve absolutely pulled that outta your arse.
They wanted a big hard Keano replacement and that’s why there was so much negativity about Carrick, despite his obvious talent.
And so because some utter baboons who wanted a destroyer* back in the mid 00’s rather than a technically gifted playmaker who was incredible at shielding, *unsurprisingly after coming from Keane, Ince, Robson; this might be the same?
These people were proven so wrong by our best ever spell in Europe with the technically excellent DM.
Rice is the opposite of Carrick, back to the destroyer type, yet with none of the ability of Keane, Ince or Robbo, shite on the ball, can’t dictate. If you want a comparison with this signing and the ones who want it, don’t look at a completely different type of player, look no further than Schneiderlin.
Here was a typical call on Carrick, by our Red Indian Chief:
The same stupid hard man argument is repeated all these years later by some in here. We need a Carrick, not some limited football who’s big and strong. Safe to say, all those against signing Carrick back then, would 100% all have taken Rice over him so it’s a daft comparison.
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Agree....Philips would be a better signing than Rice, but still wouldn't want either of them.
Carrick was always a central midfielder and he moved back from a more attacking position to center of the pitch to then a deeper position, but always throughout the center of the park. He's got the technical ability to control and pass the ball, but also the composure and vision to make any pass. Rice has a great engine and physicality, but has nowhere near the passing technique or ability or vision or composure of Carrick. Carrick could play any central midfield position and really wouldn't look out of place. Rice can only play his current role or go backward into CB position...which Carrick did a few times and did okay.
Rice would be a good buy without the English tax. A £40 million player, imo.
Exactly right. Not sure if it was on this forum or not but the words I saw about the transfer were similar. People were disappointed he wasn't a Keane regen. Don't think there was much thought that his ball skills weren't good enough. People weren't used to his type of player is all.
Good find, the funny part Carrick was never partnered with a hard man in his career at United well except Fellaini.
It’s such a daft argument to use the negativity of some over the Carrick signing, especially by someone who was on the forum back then. The ones who didn’t want Carrick, was due to the same morons crying out for a Rice type destroyer and limited footballer instead.
They failed to see how much more important it is to have a playmaker in there.
I thought Carrick showed them the light but then the clamber here for Rice pops up and you’re left scratching your head, these people learned nothing from Carrick, Fellaini, Schneiderlin.
Until we get a defensive midfielder, we are not winning shite. Every top team has one except United. We have Fred and McTominay who are not defensive midfielders (neither are they attacking midfielders), hence why our defense concedes so many goals. Not saying Rice is the answer, but we need a defensive midfielder who can break up plays, provide a shield for our defenders and allow our attacking players to thrive.
Football has moved on from the Carrick type of DMs. Carrick had a couple of good seasons but was never world class to be honest. He had a nice penetrating pass and was good at cutting of the lines. When defending but he wasn’t all that some people are making him out to be.
We need a high energy DM that needs to do 3 things clean up, protect our defence and just pass the ball to either Pogba or Bruno. Thats the way forward for this team high energy/runner in the DM position.
We need a high energy DM that needs to do 3 things clean up, protect our defence and just pass the ball to either Pogba or Bruno. Thats the way forward for this team high energy/runner in the DM position.
Football will never move on from a Carrick type.
That's a wild claim.
I mean Italy just last night won the European Championship with Jorginho, very much a player in the Carrick mould, playing a prominent role in their victory and overall success in the tournament.
Rice is a good choice if you are not trying to find the midfield/possession battle. Good if you expect to be defending a lot and playing counter attacking football. Like England.
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