He was good today, yes West Ham got dominated but Rice stood out among them IMO.
Declan Rice
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I'm with you on this. He could be an imperious CB, but don't see how he moves back there now.
He's very good at bringing the ball out, some driving runs that reminded me a bit of VVD today. He's also great at protecting the ball and laying it off and sniffing out danger. All superb CB traits. His passing is way too safe though, it's just not inspiring enough to be a top CM in my opinion.
Maguire vibes...
Does City, Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Atletico, Bayern, Juve, Inter Milan, any top 2 or 3 club across Europe's large domestic leagues buy Rice at his quoted price as a central midfielder? Nope.
Chelsea might buy him, but it is always rumored he'll be shifted to CB. City bought Rodri, Liverpool bought Fabinho, and United had Carrick back in the day. Those are the type of deep lying CM you're looking for. Even a Goretzka type player. Veratti.
These players are superior to Rice and what is truly needed.
Chelsea might buy him, but it is always rumored he'll be shifted to CB. City bought Rodri, Liverpool bought Fabinho, and United had Carrick back in the day. Those are the type of deep lying CM you're looking for. Even a Goretzka type player. Veratti.
These players are superior to Rice and what is truly needed.
No he didn’t. Stood out and did what exactly? They got dominated like you said, should have scored like 5 goals including missing a penalty.
Ate some arrancini today, was really good, but nevertheless we shouldn't sign Rice. He isn't good enough for this squad.
I just really enjoy watching him play.
I do think maybe I overrate him in my head, whilst I know he is overpriced aswell due to his passport and the club we are -
Yet it's just a player I feel I want to watch play for years to come.
I'm not normally a football fan that spends every day watching some random team and a random game of football as my entertainment. I tend to watch just United matches and occasionally the highlight of the rest of the PL.
However, I've actually watched full West ham games this season because I really like watching how Rice plays for them.
I can see people's negative view on him - such as his lack of through ball like progressive passing, I also feels like he needs to add a bit of pace to his game (bit like Greenwood did) because if people get past him he can struggle to catch up. Then I wonder that even if he isn't a Rangnick type player, if his coaching of vertical passing and pressing could help iron some of that out.
Then I think about the positves. I love watching things like his defensive positioning and how that can suck up the space for the opposition attack, its like watching a player defending without defending at all- aswell as other things like his charging runs afterwards or pure leadership. It's very enjoyable to watch for me, then I realise that I'm watching a player that is only 22 - so I wonder even if he isn't perfect right now that he could or should improve.
I do think maybe I overrate him in my head, whilst I know he is overpriced aswell due to his passport and the club we are -
Yet it's just a player I feel I want to watch play for years to come.
I'm not normally a football fan that spends every day watching some random team and a random game of football as my entertainment. I tend to watch just United matches and occasionally the highlight of the rest of the PL.
However, I've actually watched full West ham games this season because I really like watching how Rice plays for them.
I can see people's negative view on him - such as his lack of through ball like progressive passing, I also feels like he needs to add a bit of pace to his game (bit like Greenwood did) because if people get past him he can struggle to catch up. Then I wonder that even if he isn't a Rangnick type player, if his coaching of vertical passing and pressing could help iron some of that out.
Then I think about the positves. I love watching things like his defensive positioning and how that can suck up the space for the opposition attack, its like watching a player defending without defending at all- aswell as other things like his charging runs afterwards or pure leadership. It's very enjoyable to watch for me, then I realise that I'm watching a player that is only 22 - so I wonder even if he isn't perfect right now that he could or should improve.
I've been a doubter for a long time, on the basis that he just hasn't seemed to contribute enough in a lot of areas to justify the sort of pricetag he carries. But I'm a bit in the same place as you. I've watched the Hammers a good deal this season, and what I'm seeing from Rice is starting to win me over. He just operates with such authority back there, his athleticism is amazing, and he looks like he's pretty consistently making good calls.
I agree with everything here, except the bit about his pace. Granted, you're far from the only one who's mentioned his supposedly lack of pace, but I just can't see that at all but maybe I'm in the minority here. To me he looks fast, maybe deceptively fast like a Steven Gerrard. Bear in mind he's a central midfielder and not a lightning winger. Which central midfielder is faster than Rice, except Kante?
I never hear anything about Fred's pace, but he is SLOW (and weak), when he stretches his legs there's just nothing there. That's why players are brushing of and away from him at counter attacks like he's not even there, causing numerous goals against. That would so not happen with Rice.
That being said, I was surprised how easy Arsenal sliced through WH and Rice for their second goal the other day.
I agree, I really don't see pace as an issue with Rice. Rather the contrary really.
@justsomebloke
Maybe Pace is not the right word.
It's more to do with Rice being a player who tries to read the opposition attack before it actually happens which is my favourite thing about him. He is repositioning himself all the time and constantly guarding those dangerous areas where the opposition could find themselves in space or just have one last defender to take on.
He is great at that and he actually doesn't make a tackle unless his team mates are back in the correct areas. He wants to hold off the dangerous positions first and making sure his team mates have gotten back to the right places before actually going all out to make the tackle. This means he knows he can make the tackle, maybe even fail but all his defending team mates have set up to guard the goal anyway.
The thing that I've noticed is that whilst it is extremely rare because of his great positioning - if an opposition does get past him and through on goal, the ability for Rice to chase that player down, catch up with him and make a slide tackle is not there as much as his other defensive abilities.
He is more proactive with his defending than a reactive one. If he can add some reactive ability towards his game and learn how to add some vertical passing to his game - he genuinely seems like a player that can really make those clean sheets start popping up for us more often than not.
In other words he lacks the last ditch tackle ability? I haven't really noticed that, I'll keep an eye for it. Because I, like you, are watching WH mainly because of Rice, as sad as that is, especially when the Rice to United train probably went of the rails the second Ole got fired.
It's why I was hoping Ole could stay until January and Maybe sign him before he gets the sack. Just got to hope that if he is good enough then we would still be interested. I do think the new DOF has a bit of stronger say in the players we go for than purely listening to the manager, so there maybe a chance.
Yeah the last ditch tackles. Like he is great at tackling when he is sitting deep and stopping an attack in front of him, but in those short times it does get past him the reactive defending can be improved.
Maybe that's just because of West Ham though because we can't expect a CDM to stop every attack and maybe the defenders etc should do better when it gets past Rice - again a player who is proactive with his defending than reactive.
The One last thing I want to talk about that I Love about Rice is his ability to play in partnership and let the partner have a complete freedom to attack up the pitch as we see with Soucek. I see him on the other side of the pitch even though on paper they are on a double pivot. The Pogba's attacks, Van de Beek's reumadeteur runs, the pressing Fred, Mctominay's box to box and all the other youngsters like Hannibal; I do think they can get a real freedom to play their most natural version of their game because they play next to a proactive protective player in Declan Rice.
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This isn't very true though is it, as they've been run through midfield on quite a few occassions now.
It's why I was hoping Ole could stay until January and Maybe sign him before he gets the sack. Just got to hope that if he is good enough then we would still be interested. I do think the new DOF has a bit of stronger say in the players we go for than purely listening to the manager, so there maybe a chance.
Yeah the last ditch tackles. Like he is great at tackling when he is sitting deep and stopping an attack in front of him, but in those short times it does get past him the reactive defending can be improved.
Maybe that's just because of West Ham though because we can't expect a CDM to stop every attack and maybe the defenders etc should do better when it gets past Rice - again a player who is proactive with his defending than reactive.
The One last thing I want to talk about that I Love about Rice is his ability to play in partnership and let the partner have a complete freedom to attack up the pitch as we see with Soucek. I see him on the other side of the pitch even though on paper they are on a double pivot. The Pogba's attacks, Van de Beek's reumadeteur runs, the pressing Fred, Mctominay's box to box and all the other youngsters like Hannibal; I do think they can get a real freedom to play their most natural version of their game because they play next to a proactive protective player in Declan Rice.
I mean sure West Ham are not going to control possesion they are going to get opened up when players are attacking - but Soucek is on the other side of the pitch much more often than Pogba has been when playing next to Matic, even when arguably we are the more attacking controlling team.
For me that's not about the difference between Pogba and Soucek but more the defensive freedom that Rice can give to a player like that.
Maybe I made it sound like it's perfect, it's not but it's still useful.
I just think in practice, there's very few players you can just say cover the whole of midfield on your own and whilst Rice is definitnely very good defensively, it's not a recipe for success
It's arancini, with 1 R
He can make last ditch tackles when needed, that's not a weakness in his game. As others have said his positioning is usually so good that he doesn't find himself in that scenario too often, but when required he can make them. Last ditch tackling is usually, not always though a result of being in the wrong position.
Been good again tonight.
Would love to see him at Old Trafford
Would love to see him at Old Trafford
Took me a while on him but I'm now fully converted. He's quality.
I’m sort of the same, I think.
He's proving me wrong (Showing again that I know nothing about players abilities)
Loving all these comments of people now liking Declan Rice. The only reason people in here didn’t rate him was because he is English, it’s totally pathetic. He’s 22 and way above his age for the role he plays, excellent player and has been for a while.
You just need to visit KUMB to see what the fans think of him. The fact that he is West Ham's captain at 22 and one of the first name on GS's team sheet says he is also appreciated by coaches. At West Ham he is seen as the best thing since Bobby Moore, and by his standards he didn't play well tonight.
I have said it before; it is only a question of time before he is England's captain and starts chipping in with 10 goals a year. Quite literally, (apart from keeper?) there is not a position that he couldn't play
I have said it before; it is only a question of time before he is England's captain and starts chipping in with 10 goals a year. Quite literally, (apart from keeper?) there is not a position that he couldn't play
I've been saying since last season we had to sign him in the summer, but we failed.
I'm afraid he'll end at Chelsea in 2022 or 2023.
Yes, there is no way he will come North. If he leaves West Ham it will be for Chelsea
He was immense in that second half. Kept pushing west ham on all on his own.
You can get a Declan Rice in any league of the world for half the price he would go for.
Have we not learned our lesson of buying overhyped English crap like before? I hope we don't go anywhere near him and I don't think Rangnick will either
Have we not learned our lesson of buying overhyped English crap like before? I hope we don't go anywhere near him and I don't think Rangnick will either
It’s crazy how United fans rate him so highly. Mostly England fans? maybe, because no one outside of England rates him just like it was for Mr. Grealish. Wow, like there’s no midfielder in the world that can do what he does and more.
We have been here before with Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Grealish, even Shaw till the last year and has gone back to shit this season. I’m not going to get fooled by this one. He’s good and that’s it.
We have been here before with Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Grealish, even Shaw till the last year and has gone back to shit this season. I’m not going to get fooled by this one. He’s good and that’s it.
You are the one who needs educating, English crap!!!! sounds like Irish bitterness to me.
Remember this post in months/year's to come, you will be embarrassed by it
West Ham wants 100m for him, as great as he is and how he can be an excellent addition to any team but i find it an over priced deal for a midfielder! I really wish to see him here but I can’t see us pay this amount for him. Maybe Chelsea?
Oh right.. English players are overhyped whilst so so so many French players come to top clubs when being hyped in the Ligue 1 or other leagues - and then still get the hype from fans in this country.
Pogba, Martial, Greizmann, Ndombele, Ousamane Dembele, Mendy, the recent performances of Konate, Kounde etc
It pisses me off when people think its on English players are overhyped - literally have fans begging to spend 100 +million on French players and then they just shut up like they never wanted them when they end up failing.
No doubt Declan Rice is the missing piece in our HM, he is always fit and he would also be a great leader.
I rather sign Rice than any unproven player from a abroad. He has nothing to prove, he has done in PL, he would be an instant success.
I rather sign Rice than any unproven player from a abroad. He has nothing to prove, he has done in PL, he would be an instant success.
If you’re making a comment like that then at least name some of these players that are equally as good for half the price
MmmmmNo thanks.
Decent player, but not at all good enough for us. Especially for the absurd amount of money it would take to get him here.
Decent player, but not at all good enough for us. Especially for the absurd amount of money it would take to get him here.
The thing is the people mention a player like Tchouameni -
No one is saying that they are bad players, they might even be better than Rice; but everyone who has decided to watch Rice for West Ham can see that the reason he gets this attention is due to the "way he plays" as a CDM.
People bring up some random CDM from a random league simply because they might be cheaper but when you watch them, they are more like box to box, they are all over the pitch, chasing the ball and the player like they are the deeper version of Park Ji Sung.
Sure under Rangnick that may be useful & if that's the case then let him make the decision - but people who dont watch Rice, bring up these other random players thinking that they are the same style of players when they are not.
I love Rice's ability to not even tackle but just be in the right position at the right time which blocks so so many opposition attacks.
The people who don't see that and can only see the type of player running after the opposition at our own corner flag and then the opposition penalty box before slide tackling every chance they get.
I like Fred in our team, but it feels like all these players that are linked by certain fans and the media just seem like another version of how Fred played when he was deeper as our CDM + maybe some better strength + tackling after leaving our CB'S open when deciding to chase after someone at the managers touchline.
I really like Rice because I love how he bosses that area right in front of the CB'S and constantly analyses the dangerous areas to stop the opposition getting there first and then hijacking the chance creatable passes.
Rice is different gravy and has been consistently playing at a high level all season. He's a leader. Still 22yrs old as well.
If he wasnt English and playing in another league everyone on here would be wanking over him.
If he wasnt English and playing in another league everyone on here would be wanking over him.
Wow. He pisses all over our midfielders, it's not that hard though, but still, a massive massive upgrade. He's brilliant. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he's the new Roy Keane.
It's because us English have been raised on certain 'qualities' of a player.
A fighter, who's big, brave and puts in a hard tackle when possible is something we were always told to appreciate. Rice is a bit of throwback in that regard, he plays like a midfielder from the 80's/90's.
People are getting massively carried away though in this thread. He's a good, solid player but the way West Ham play suits him perfectly. It covers his weaknesses and lets his good points shine.
I'm not convinced he will look anything more than average outside of a defensive, tight knit unit.
Whenever he's played for England he always looks lost. I really don't want a midfielder that specialises in mopping up balls in our own box, and i'm not sure our coaching staff do either.
ESPECIALLY for £100m +
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