Being a Manchester United defender these days is like being a drummer for Spinal Tap.
Grim stuff
Grim stuff
Defensive overhaul
- Thread starter Señor
- Start date
Rafael isn't perfectly fine. He is my favorite player but he misses almost half of matches through injury. That's not good enough if you wat to create a stable defense.
Shaw has had a very promising start while Rojo unfortunately looks bad. We should sign two defenders on the next 2 transfer window. Otherwise we won't be able to fight for title (which I think should be the aim next season). Jones, Evans and Smalling have already had too many chances.
Thing is we probably don't need a world class centre back in his pomp. All we probably need is experienced defender that may not be at his best but is still a very good player who can sit in the middle of that defence and give us some organisation and instruction to the players around. It would make the world of difference.
It's not that I don't think that Evans, Smalling and Jones are not good players. They have all individually put in some fabulous performances over the years, but they are just so unreliable with their fitness and consistency. Smalling was great against Chelsea but was useless against City. Frustrating!!
It's not that I don't think that Evans, Smalling and Jones are not good players. They have all individually put in some fabulous performances over the years, but they are just so unreliable with their fitness and consistency. Smalling was great against Chelsea but was useless against City. Frustrating!!
We could do with a couple of CB's in truth, I feel nervy every time the ball comes near the current crop.
The way I see it is, we should:
- Bring in Vlaar in January
- Promote McNair (and possibly Blackett) to first team permanently
- Bring in a top class centre back in the summer (Hummels)
- Sell Smalling (to Arsenal) and Evans (to whoever will have him - Sunderland/Hull?) in the summer but keep Jones.
- Bring in Vlaar in January
- Promote McNair (and possibly Blackett) to first team permanently
- Bring in a top class centre back in the summer (Hummels)
- Sell Smalling (to Arsenal) and Evans (to whoever will have him - Sunderland/Hull?) in the summer but keep Jones.
I don't rate Blackett at all. Not convinced by Rojo either. At CB, we're a complete mess.
Shaw, Rafa, and McNair are fine and have done nothing wrong. We need a big name defender with experience to come in and take the reigns.
Not having proper FB cover really cost us today. We need a proper FB to cover for Rafael. Valenica,Smalling,Jones etc etc at RB really messes us up in either an attack or defensive sense.
We also need a proper LB to provide cover for Shaw. Rojo isnt the answer. Maybe Blind might be.
As for CBs where to begin. None of Smalling,Jones,Evans,Rojo feels me with confidence. All error and injury prone.
So much for the theory that if CM was sorted they would be much better.
We also need a proper LB to provide cover for Shaw. Rojo isnt the answer. Maybe Blind might be.
As for CBs where to begin. None of Smalling,Jones,Evans,Rojo feels me with confidence. All error and injury prone.
So much for the theory that if CM was sorted they would be much better.
What do you guys think about converting Carrick CB permanently? He can't be worse than our current crop.
Yes, sell them all, the bastards conceding 1 goal against the champions and playing with 10 men for 50 minutes...bunch of useless twatsI think someone put how many games he's played in the last 5 seasons in the Vlaar thread disproving the theory of him being injury prone. I know he's injured at the moment but he was immense for them at the start of the season before his injury and was one of the key reasons why they didn't get relegated last.
More injuries in defence, unbelievable how many injuries we have picked up this season, maybe I'm being a downer here but McNair doesn't convince me, he allows the striker too much free room and doesn't play tight, see the aguero goal and again when he let yaya get that header in.
Shawcross to be our Gary Cahill?
Fingers should be pointed at LVG and Woodward. Absolute stupidity.
After Vidic and Ferdinand left the situation was we had three first team centre halves. Three centre halves who must have missed about 50% of our games over the last three years through injury.
So the two options LVG and Woodward had were as follows.
A) Address defensive issues and sign two proven centre halves.
B) Ignore defensive issues staring you glaringly in the face, don't sign a proven centre half, instead sign an average defender from the Portuguese League and then proceed to throw in rookie youngsters when your three centre backs shockingly get injured.
I know the answer to this and I'm not employed by the club.
After Vidic and Ferdinand left the situation was we had three first team centre halves. Three centre halves who must have missed about 50% of our games over the last three years through injury.
So the two options LVG and Woodward had were as follows.
A) Address defensive issues and sign two proven centre halves.
B) Ignore defensive issues staring you glaringly in the face, don't sign a proven centre half, instead sign an average defender from the Portuguese League and then proceed to throw in rookie youngsters when your three centre backs shockingly get injured.
I know the answer to this and I'm not employed by the club.
If it were up to me...
In: Shawcross, Hummels, Coleman
Promoted: McNair, Blackett
Out: Evans, Smalling
Sorted.
In: Shawcross, Hummels, Coleman
Promoted: McNair, Blackett
Out: Evans, Smalling
Sorted.
It baffles me how we didn't buy another defender. Rojo, from what I've seen so far, barely counts. I mean it's not exactly rocket science to find a few defenders that are better than our current crop of defenders. Add that to the fact that we all know they're all injury prone and you're asking for trouble. Piss poor.
About 2-3 seasons far from anywhere near first team.
Back to the topic, I would promote Thorpe to replace Smalling but that won't happen so hopefully we'll have a top class defender soon enough so sort out the stability at the back (we're not gonna buy two that would only worsen things).
At least one of our injury prone CBs have to be replaced by someone who doesn't carry a high risk of also being injured. That automatically rules out Vlaar as an option.
I like Rafael but we also need competition at RB, if only because of how vulnerable he is to injury.
I like Rafael but we also need competition at RB, if only because of how vulnerable he is to injury.
Don't agree with this.
Last season fair enough, DdG aside everyone under performed.
But even though his performances were on the decline in SAFs last couple of seasons he was still a very competent defender and a potent attacking threat.
Shaw I think is on par with Evras defensive capabilities in those last few seasons but attacking wise there's much more of a disparity.
So many times I've seen Shaw and willed him to make that run forward (he did this well against Chelsea) but too often he'll just receive the ball and pass inwards.
Maybe LvG has instructed him to retain possession rather than go on the outside and out a ball in.
Anyway as I said he's only 19 so this will probably improve in time.
agree pretty much.. the knee jerk reactions is silly.
Not a bad shout at all, that would stabilize our defence for sure.... but I doubt Dortmund would part with Hummels.. might cost us another bomb, upwards of 40 mil. And Everton would bleed us another 30 mil for Coleman.
I didn't think Rojo was that bad to be honest?
I actually don't think there's anything wrong with our defence, apart from he fact that we can't get a settled back four due to injuries. I feel if our centre backs stayed fit (which seems to be a big problem), we'd be fine.
Smalling, although getting sent off today, was great against Chelsea last week, and has shown in the past he can step up to the plate. As has Jones and Evans, at times. That said, if these players are not here in a few years, I wouldn't say it's because they're not good enough, but because they're too injury prone, and haven't had the chance of a long run in the side with a settled back four.
Smalling, although getting sent off today, was great against Chelsea last week, and has shown in the past he can step up to the plate. As has Jones and Evans, at times. That said, if these players are not here in a few years, I wouldn't say it's because they're not good enough, but because they're too injury prone, and haven't had the chance of a long run in the side with a settled back four.
Just looking at the stats so far this season for our defenders in PL (senior ones only, so not including Blackett & McNair).
Ten games in as of City game:
Rafael played 6
Shaw 5
Rojo 7 which is every game he could play in
Evans 3
Smalling 4 & 1 off the bench
Jones 4
Ten games in as of City game:
Rafael played 6
Shaw 5
Rojo 7 which is every game he could play in
Evans 3
Smalling 4 & 1 off the bench
Jones 4
That's it, if we had great centre halves who were injury prone I'd understand us hesitating due to their quality but they're not actually that good. It just doesn't make any sense.
Lets look beyond the continent. Doria and Balanta can probably be acquired for a very reasonable fee, lets move for them before they go to Porto and inflate their transfer values threefold.
It's quite annoying that as soon as we finally decide to fix our shite midtable midfield, we come out of it having a shite midtable defence.
Of course. Likewise the failings of our attacking players has an impact on our defence. For the level of talent we have upfront we should be a hell of a lot better going forward. As I said, there's not much focus on our attack at the moment as the defence seems to get the brunt of the 'abuse' when it cones to bad results.
You say that our defence is twice as shit as our attack is, yet we've only scored 3 more goals than Palace, Hull West Brom, Swansea and Liverpool, our defence has only let in 4 more than Chelsea.
I think he's far too suspect on defensive headers and overall strength holding off a player.
This season is so frustrating. If we had 1 or 2 of Rio, vidic and Evra we'd have a lot more points and could have slowly replaced them one by one. Moyes to blame.
Agreed we should never have to rely on a Carrick as a CB.
I'd say we need two new and reliable defenders, a right-back and a centre-back. I'm interested to see McNair and Blackett develop, so I'd bring in one world class centre-back as Smalling, Jones and Evans have proven unreliable. The jury is still out with Rojo, but I haven't been overly impressed. We also can't rely on Rafael either, we need a new right-back for him to compete with.
I kind of agree with you, as it baffles me but according to Phil Nev great CB's are apparently really hard to find. How much did Mangala cost Citeh? And he's not producing, and may not make it in the Prem. And he was one of the hottest names on the market.
Iv suggested Balanta for a while now, he is pretty much the only commanding cb available at the moment, wouldn't have work permit issues and would be decent priced
One proven central defender, Hummels; one young promising defender, LaPorte; and one proven right back, Coleman.
That will cost us about 100m, but missing out on the CL season after season will cost us a lot more.
Bite the bullet, or the pillow, Woody!
That will cost us about 100m, but missing out on the CL season after season will cost us a lot more.
Bite the bullet, or the pillow, Woody!
If we can keep close to top 4 by january and then buy vlaar, howedes and darmian then we have a great chance to make the top 4 come the end of the season
Our back three/four this season, its credit to the players that we havent conceded more when you look below.
V Swansea (lost 1-2)
Jones, Smalling, Blackett
V Sunderland (Drew 1-1)
Jones, Smalling, Blackett – Smalling injured and replaced by Keane- 44 min
V Burnley (Drew 0-0)
Evans, Jones, Blackett
V QPR (Won 4-0)
Rafael, Evans, Blackett, Rojo - Rafael injured and replaced by Valencia – 67 min
V Leicester (lost 5-3)
Rafael, Evans, Blackett Red Card, Rojo – Evans injured and replaced by Smalling – 30 min
V West Ham (won 2-1)
Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Shaw
V Everton (Won 2-1)
Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Shaw – Shaw injured and replaced by Blackett – 71 min
V West Brom (Drew 2-2)
Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw
V Chelsea (Drew 1-1)
Rafael, Smalling, Rojo, Shaw
V Man City (lost 0-1)
Valencia, Smalling (Red Card 30 min), Rojo, Shaw – Rojo injured replaced by McNair – 56 min
V Swansea (lost 1-2)
Jones, Smalling, Blackett
V Sunderland (Drew 1-1)
Jones, Smalling, Blackett – Smalling injured and replaced by Keane- 44 min
V Burnley (Drew 0-0)
Evans, Jones, Blackett
V QPR (Won 4-0)
Rafael, Evans, Blackett, Rojo - Rafael injured and replaced by Valencia – 67 min
V Leicester (lost 5-3)
Rafael, Evans, Blackett Red Card, Rojo – Evans injured and replaced by Smalling – 30 min
V West Ham (won 2-1)
Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Shaw
V Everton (Won 2-1)
Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Shaw – Shaw injured and replaced by Blackett – 71 min
V West Brom (Drew 2-2)
Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw
V Chelsea (Drew 1-1)
Rafael, Smalling, Rojo, Shaw
V Man City (lost 0-1)
Valencia, Smalling (Red Card 30 min), Rojo, Shaw – Rojo injured replaced by McNair – 56 min
It is starting to seem like it was a terrible mistake to hear Moyes and sell Vidic to Inter.
The basic point is... What's the point in having 3 part time centre backs? Jones, Evans and Smalling are injury prone. They always have been, and they always will be.
I think for the natural ability and talent that Jones possesses we should keep him and hope that he begins to shake off the injuries over time, but we need to trade the other two in for 1 or 2 consistent, fit centre backs. Vlaar stands out by a mile at the moment in the January transfer window.
I think for the natural ability and talent that Jones possesses we should keep him and hope that he begins to shake off the injuries over time, but we need to trade the other two in for 1 or 2 consistent, fit centre backs. Vlaar stands out by a mile at the moment in the January transfer window.