Dele Alli | Overlap Interview with Neville opens up on childhood trauma and mental health issues

[spiriticon]

Football needs to change dramatically and people need to get their priorities straight if they think that a game is worth exploiting somebodies mental health issues to gain a competitive edge.

I'm sure there have been players who have suffered some form of depression due to racist abuse they've suffered at matches. Do you think they should also retire from the game or that maybe they should be supported and the people making their lives miserable should be held to account instead?

It's football that needs to change then to make it acceptable when someone is struggling with there mental health, they shouldn't be ridiculed for getting help when it's needed. You might now see him as mentally weak and needing to retire but I and hopefully most other people won't

The point is I do not think football can change, because the whole point of a sport is to exploit weakness to win. Every time Dele steps on the pitch, players and opposing fans will get into his head so that he plays shit. Pundits will then criticise etc.

Also, I do not believe that retirement is being mentally weak. It is that mentality that needs to be changed. On the contrary, I think it is strength to accept inside that some environments are bad for you, and that difficult changes must be made to improve your own quality of life.

I believe every footballer suffers mentally, not just Dele. It's a shitty world. I just think in Dele's case it is exceptional and he should take extra caution.

 

[jem]

I'm not sure what agenda you are talking about. Dele Alli shared his struggle with mental health, abuse & addiction and you want to make judgement on him without having no idea what he has been through. As I said, traumatic experience and mental illness affects many people daily and to question their experience and make insensitive comments will only increase the stigma which will lead to more & more people suffering in silence. We should be slow to judge others. Many people will learn a valuable lesson from Dele.

Not only this, he repeatedly takes responsibility during the interview and stresses that people such as his mother and Mourinho are to blame. If that's having an agenda, then I really don't understand what that words means anymore.

 

[Rnd898]

Just because he's a grown man it doesn't mean he isn't still struggling with past trauma.

Yeah, even if the problems can get a bit easier to handle when everything's going great and life is sunshines and rainbows doesn't mean they're ever really gone and that the same mental issues wont have a habit of resurfacing when things start to go wrong again. I'm lucky enough not to speak from personal experience but I've had close friends who've struggled with some mental health problems and I've learnt the progress is never linear and there are always going to be some ups and downs.

I can't even imagine how difficult dealing with something like that must be for someone with a career as volatile as that of a professional athlete where things can very quickly go from one extreme to another. At one time you're on top of the world banging in the goals but with some setbacks (injuries, loss of form, moving clubs etc.) the lows can be really low and to top it all off the media and any public abuse from fans can only feed the mental problems even further. It can quickly turn into a vicious cycle where it can be difficult to bounce back from.

I've always disliked Dele as a player but as a person he's definitely earned my respect now. All the best to him.

 

[Andersonson]

Wasn't banned for having a different view. It was many, many warnings mostly concentrated in the last 11 months but he also had 8 inactive warning points from previous years. Long term problem poster.

So this post was the final straw? And was this kind of post worthy of a warning?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I feel so sad for him despite him saying he doesn't want that. I played with him at MK before he was in Spurs, he was one of the junior players and seemed so nice. Hope he can turn this around.

 

[Solius]

So this post was the final straw? And was this kind of post worthy of a warning?

Yes. Based on their history they had less leeway due to past actions as well.

 

[horsechoker]

I feel so sad for him despite him saying he doesn't want that. I played with him at MK before he was in Spurs, he was one of the junior players and seemed so nice. Hope he can turn this around.

You didn't play against us when MKD knocked us out the cup did you?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

You didn't play against us when MKD knocked us out the cup did you?

Haha no nothing like that of course. Just kick about with the youth team for a charity event.

 

[Withnail]

So this post was the final straw? And was this kind of post worthy of a warning?

Completely invalidating another's mental health struggles and by extension anyone else's on the site who's also struggling is quite bad. To then also suggest he's lying about childhood sexual abuse or that he should just get over it is pretty despicable and worthy of at least a warning imo.

It's not like he was putting forth much of an opinion on the topic that could be discussed.

 

[Red in STL]

One thing that football needs to look in to seriously is the apparent widespread use of prescription sleeping pills, there's something seriously wrong IMO if these are needed just to able to play the game,

In the interview Gary Neville acknowledged that usage was common when he played which means he probably used them as well, I wonder if this is related to the advent of the PL and staggered KO times for TV purposes

 

[HackeyC]

I think football is a hard life at the top level. If you are also burdened by repressed trauma then it must be awful. Imagine every other game getting immense abuse hurled at you for 90 minutes, things people would rarely ever do in another public environment.

Lingard and Alli's changes in form are two examples, where you are never sure on what is happening behind the scenes. It is probably a lesson to all as to how we judge players. Ultimately most of us here have done sport throughout our lives, few if any would have stepped on a pitch wanting to perform at anything less than our best, or to let our team mates down.

 

[ChenHoNam]

Almost everyone in football world have wronged him in certain way, until this interview came to light.

Not every depression patient has the right resources and environment to receive treatment or help.

He is fortunate to receive professional help early before things get worse. Glad that he took everything in his stride and try to work toward normalcy.

Being injured for a long period of time doesn’t help his situation. I hope to see him play and enjoy football again.

 

[Andersonson]

Completely invalidating another's mental health struggles and by extension anyone else's on the site who's also struggling is quite bad. To then also suggest he's lying about childhood sexual abuse or that he should just get over it is pretty despicable and worthy of at least a warning imo.

It's not like he was putting forth much of an opinion on the topic that could be discussed.

I dont disagree, it was a stupid post. But for this to be a forum with different views we need to accept different opinions, even if they hurt our feelings.

But there was history here as you've stated, so good job. Cant be easy being a mod.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Fair enough, guys. It's obvious that Alli's upbringing could've gone a lot better, however, personally for me there are a lot of excuses in there now. He's a grown man who has't been up to the task for years. But that's just me and anyone who sees it differently, fair enough.

I don't see a common denominator for either of us, therefore me thinks it's best to leave it here. I liked the Giflord and wanted to ask why he's not here anymore. Thanks for clearing that one up, that's all. Overall i'm more of a reader of this board, still like it. Peace!

Mate. As I've said earlier, I was abused as a kid both sexually and physically. I got 13 A and A* GCSEs, 5 A levels, a BSc, worked in high ticket sales, flying all around the world, set up my own consultancy firm, coped until 32, and then the trauma caught up with me.

For a few years I tried to managed, but I gradually got worse and worse at my job until finally at 35 a really bad nervous breakdown finally stopped me.

I stopped working and since then have been, slowly, getting the help I need.

It's been six going on seven years, and I'm still not working, just focusing on recovering.

You cannot predict when the trauma hits you and you can't predict how long recovery will take.

I sorry mate, you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Withnail]

I dont disagree, it was a stupid post. But for this to be a forum with different views we need to accept different opinions, even if they hurt our feelings.

But there was history here as you've stated, so good job. Cant be easy being a mod.

Well here's the thing, the mods actually don't have to do that at all.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Mate. As I've said earlier, I was abused as a kid both sexually and physically. I got 13 A and A* GCSEs, 5 A levels, a BSc, worked in high ticket sales, flying all around the world, set up my own consultancy firm, coped until 32, and then the trauma caught up with me.

For a few years I tried to managed, but I gradually got worse and worse at my job until finally at 35 a really bad nervous breakdown finally stopped me.

I stopped working and since then have been, slowly, getting the help I need.

It's been six going on seven years, and I'm still not working, just focusing on recovering.

You cannot predict when the trauma hits you and you can't predict how long recovery will take.

I sorry mate, you have no idea what you're talking about

This must have been difficult to share here, and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Tarrou]

I've just watched it and I think it's one of the best interviews I've ever seen, I'm certain he's going to help people by doing this

the way he speaks about it is so humble, inspiring and genuine

my own experience in the complexities of trauma I learned from my ex-partner who suffered sexual abuse as a child. It impacted her in so many debilitating ways throughout her life, and it took many years for her to confront it and is still on that journey to this day. The courage it would take to talk about this kind of stuff publicly cannot be understated

Nev did a great job with it too

 

[Peter van der Gea]

This must have been difficult to share here, and I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks mate.

I started sharing about this stuff a little while ago, I decided that I would be open and honest whenever this subject comes up.

Part of my therapy is to come to terms with the fact that that traumatised little boy is part of me, and rather than be embarrassed or something to hide, but rather to be open, helpful, proud and honest.

That in itself takes sometimes to come to terms with, and it seems that Dele is crossing that bridge.

I don't mind people asking questions, as long as they're polite, but when people ignore the anecdotes and stubbornly stick to their guns, I get pissed off.

 

[Kellyiom]

I'll bite.
Isn't it a bit convient when Alli's not at the top of his game, more precise hasn't been for years, he's coming out with this kind of stuff?
Clubs in recent years would have liked to know about this before paying him millions of pounds. But because of mental health years of not even trying have to be excused? Effectively he took away the opportunity for guys who would have given everything to be at a club such as Spurs or Everton while probably knowing he wouldn't even give it a try. There should me more critical questions directed at him.

How the feck did he pass the Premier League drug tests while taking stuff? Doesn't make sense to me.

I can answer this one, at least for me. I decided to just be open about having bipolar disorder because I realised that the pressure of keeping it hidden while in a high-earning, high-pressure job was itself creating instability.

No doubt about it, I have since been discriminated against when looking for jobs even though, as my doctor said 'they can't do that!'

Well, they can and they do but it's been really miraculous how it's worked out as I've left that industry and gone to university to study a really interesting field.

So, I perfectly understand why Dele might not disclose illness. In an ideal world he would have just disclosed it and they would include it in their files and ensure he was treated appropriately.

As for the drug tests, eh, I think that's going to be messy. It looks like the anti doping agencies might have some questions to answer.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Mate. As I've said earlier, I was abused as a kid both sexually and physically. I got 13 A and A* GCSEs, 5 A levels, a BSc, worked in high ticket sales, flying all around the world, set up my own consultancy firm, coped until 32, and then the trauma caught up with me.

For a few years I tried to managed, but I gradually got worse and worse at my job until finally at 35 a really bad nervous breakdown finally stopped me.

I stopped working and since then have been, slowly, getting the help I need.

It's been six going on seven years, and I'm still not working, just focusing on recovering.

You cannot predict when the trauma hits you and you can't predict how long recovery will take.

I sorry mate, you have no idea what you're talking about

Wish you the best of luck on your recovery. Thanks for sharing.

 

[RVN1991]

I'll bite.
Isn't it a bit convient when Alli's not at the top of his game, more precise hasn't been for years, he's coming out with this kind of stuff?
Clubs in recent years would have liked to know about this before paying him millions of pounds. But because of mental health years of not even trying have to be excused? Effectively he took away the opportunity for guys who would have given everything to be at a club such as Spurs or Everton while probably knowing he wouldn't even give it a try. There should me more critical questions directed at him.

How the feck did he pass the Premier League drug tests while taking stuff? Doesn't make sense to me.

Not really. Especially considering he only came out because the media were threatening to come out with the story of him being in rehab.

 

[JediSith]

Hard life? Partying all night? fecking women left and right - even posting a fecking sextape online, being an arrrogant scrote at a tender age of 21?
Stop throwing the mental health issue every time a player fecks up.

Some people resort to those things as an escape from their demons. Not saying all, but some do.

I haven’t seen the full interview. But I too saw one clip and thought “here we go” but then I saw another where he was talking about losing someone close to him at a young age etc.

Not sure what other trauma he went through but people are people. Being a multi millionaire doesn’t exempt someone from emotions and going down a slippery slopes, if anything it might even facilitate. Just like illnesses don’t discriminate, neither do negative emotions or mental health issues.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Some people resort to those things as an escape from their demons. Not saying all, but some do.

I haven’t seen the full interview. But I too saw one clip and thought “here we go” but then I saw another where he was talking about losing someone close to him at a young age etc.

Not sure what other trauma he went through but people are people. Being a multi millionaire doesn’t exempt someone from emotions and going down a slippery slopes, if anything it might even facilitate. Just like illnesses don’t discriminate, neither do negative emotions or mental health issues.

I had a similar conversation with this poster about whether players getting booed might affect their mental health in any way. He refused to accept that it was understandable that people could be affected by it. Not just that he personally wouldn’t, but that he couldn’t accept that anyone could. I think unfortunately you’re quoting someone who refuses to make any effort to understand issues like this.

 

[JediSith]

I had a similar conversation with this poster about whether players getting booed might affect their mental health in any way. He refused to accept that it was understandable that people could be affected by it. Not just that he personally wouldn’t, but that he couldn’t accept that anyone could. I think unfortunately you’re quoting someone who refuses to make any effort to understand issues like this.

I’m not sure how many posters have that view, I’ve scrolled a bit a seen a few with similar opinions. I wonder if they’ve only seen one clip and are unaware the loss he suffered.

To play devils advocate, and probably explain my first reaction before I heard the second clip. It could be because 2 high profile people accused of certain things both started talking about their mental health in the aftermath, yet before they were at the top of their industry the week before. So there might subconsciously be bias in some of the public’s mind.

But of course all it takes is a quick think and you realise Dele is a different situation, plus he has been on a downward spiral for years.

 

[NicolaSacco]

I’m not sure how many posters have that view, I’ve scrolled a bit a seen a few with similar opinions. I wonder if they’ve only seen one clip and are unaware the loss he suffered.

To play devils advocate, and probably explain my first reaction before I heard the second clip. It could be because 2 high profile people accused of certain things both started talking about their mental health in the aftermath, yet before they were at the top of their industry the week before. So there might subconsciously be bias in some of the public’s mind.

But of course all it takes is a quick think and you realise Dele is a different situation, plus he has been on a downward spiral for years.

I know that there’s nothing i can do, but I really feel it’s fair that if someone makes a a claim of mental health problems, that they are initially given the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think it’s acceptable to make a comment on a widely read forum and then use as your excuse the fact that you only watched the highlights of the interview.
I can understand people’s ignorance but at least own that ignorance.

 

[Vanrouge]

I had a similar conversation with this poster about whether players getting booed might affect their mental health in any way. He refused to accept that it was understandable that people could be affected by it. Not just that he personally wouldn’t, but that he couldn’t accept that anyone could. I think unfortunately you’re quoting someone who refuses to make any effort to understand issues like this.

I wonder if there's a generational thing going on here. I don't know the poster in question's age, but I'm from a generation that tried in every way to minimize trauma: "Get over it," "Pull yourself together," "Suck it up," etc. It's the "proper" and "masculine" thing to do. We now know, however, the appalling damage that does to so many people, so it's no longer an excuse, even if we were raised with those poisonous values. We all have a responsibility to learn about such things so we don't accidentally hurt more people with our ignorance.

 

[Brownie85]

Just to expand on this. We have a poster in the newbies who recently made a thread about how they were struggling. Everyone responded with kindness and empathy. His latest reply started with:



Imagine how different they might have felt if someone had come in and said it was bollocks, or that they didn't believe him? Or compared him to a serial killer ala Giflord.

As someone who majorly stuggles with their mental health, it really cuts deep when people say it's all bollocks and done for attention or to cover up some crap etc. I've struggled with depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts etc, even acted upon them in the past (apologies if this isn't allowed, but still) and yet i've had people tell me it's all for attention, all for show, all to just get out of a crap situation etc. No it's really not. It's real, and it some days it makes life unbearable. It's something i've had to live with and deal with for years, and as a male, i do find that a lot of people don't really take me serious when i say i'm not feeling mentally great some days.

I just feel that these archaic views of men need to be manly and just put up or shut up are absolutely ridiculous. Some days i have to literally walk around with a smile on my face because the people i'm with might not take me serious when i say i feel like crap, so i have to act like nothing is wrong, like life is fine and dandy, and i tell you what, that makes things so so much worse, mentally and physically.

 

[NicolaSacco]

I wonder if there's a generational thing going on here. I don't know the poster in question's age, but I'm from a generation that tried in every way to minimize trauma: "Get over it," "Pull yourself together," "Suck it up," etc. It's the "proper" and "masculine" thing to do. We now know, however, the appalling damage that does to so many people, so it's no longer an excuse, even if we were raised with those poisonous values. We all have a responsibility to learn about such things so we don't accidentally hurt more people with our ignorance.

I think you’re right, but that there are other factors that make it feel less obviously generational. I’m probably just about from a generation that did that, but I had very liberal parents and a Dad who didn’t hold those values. I just find it malignant in general. Hiding mental health problems is like hiding sexuality. You can do it for years and years but in the end no one wins.

 

[Andersonson]

Well here's the thing, the mods actually don't have to do that at all.

They dont have too, but this forum would be empty pretty fast

 

[Withnail]

They dont have too, but this forum would be empty pretty fast

They already don't on many subjects or have you not been paying attention?

 

[Solius]

As someone who majorly stuggles with their mental health, it really cuts deep when people say it's all bollocks and done for attention or to cover up some crap etc. I've struggled with depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts etc, even acted upon them in the past (apologies if this isn't allowed, but still) and yet i've had people tell me it's all for attention, all for show, all to just get out of a crap situation etc. No it's really not. It's real, and it some days it makes life unbearable. It's something i've had to live with and deal with for years, and as a male, i do find that a lot of people don't really take me serious when i say i'm not feeling mentally great some days.

I just feel that these archaic views of men need to be manly and just put up or shut up are absolutely ridiculous. Some days i have to literally walk around with a smile on my face because the people i'm with might not take me serious when i say i feel like crap, so i have to act like nothing is wrong, like life is fine and dandy, and i tell you what, that makes things so so much worse, mentally and physically.

That’s shite mate. Society is changing for the better but there will always be people dragging their heels unfortunately. Hope you’re doing ok!

 

[Andersonson]

They already don't on many subjects or have you not been paying attention?

Probably

 

[roseguy64]

Fair enough, guys. It's obvious that Alli's upbringing could've gone a lot better, however, personally for me there are a lot of excuses in there now. He's a grown man who has't been up to the task for years. But that's just me and anyone who sees it differently, fair enough.

I don't see a common denominator for either of us, therefore me thinks it's best to leave it here. I liked the Giflord and wanted to ask why he's not here anymore. Thanks for clearing that one up, that's all. Overall i'm more of a reader of this board, still like it. Peace!

The ignorance in this post...

Wow

 

[Isotope]

So any conclusion on this? Can we still criticize player's bad performance if they have or potentially have mental health issue, or not?

There's this poster gave out another POV. We all agreed that football is some sort of entertainment. If an actor performed badly in a movie, should we not criticize his performance if he has or potentially has mental health issue?

ANd yeah.. there's a difference between criticizing and abusing.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Unfortunately, sport and especially football, is a competitive dog eat dog world.
Only the best players at the top of their game will survive and continue to be selected.
All others fall by the wayside or they are gradually phased out.
There are thousands of sob stories to be found, many at United, that nobody has given a second thought to the players mental well being. Phil Jones for one. DVB another.
Whatever the circumstances behind a players struggles, it’s just horrible that people are targeted for doing what is their living.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

So any conclusion on this? Can we still criticize player's bad performance if they have or potentially have mental health issue, or not?

There's this poster gave out another POV. We all agreed that football is some sort of entertainment. If an actor performed badly in a movie, should we not criticize his performance if he has or potentially has mental health issue?

ANd yeah.. there's a difference between criticizing and abusing.

Difference is that once a recording of a movie is done, it's in print forever, and you're only going to make 50odd movies, that's just one season for a footballer.

Also each movie is different, whereas each football game has a similar pattern.

So, a guy who is midway through his career at 27, with hundreds of games left to play, and he's in recovery now, on the way up from rock bottom.

And what criticism are you going to lay on Dele? He was resilient enough to make it until 27 before breaking down, while getting to the Premiership and the England team? That he should have had his breakdown earlier, when suicide is far more likely? That he wasn't strong enough to not have a breakdown after his footy career was over?

What are the criticisms?

 

[Isotope]

Difference is that once a recording of a movie is done, it's in print forever, and you're only going to make 50odd movies, that's just one season for a footballer.

Also each movie is different, whereas each football game has a similar pattern.

So, a guy who is midway through his career at 27, with hundreds of games left to play, and he's in recovery now, on the way up from rock bottom.

And what criticism are you going to lay on Dele? He was resilient enough to make it until 27 before breaking down, while getting to the Premiership and the England team? That he should have had his breakdown earlier, when suicide is far more likely? That he wasn't strong enough to not have a breakdown after his footy career was over?

What are the criticisms?

I think I made it clear about criticism when said player has bad performance, and of course it's performance related to football.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I think I made it clear about criticism when said player has bad performance, and of course it's performance related to football.

And you don't think a player with a much deeper understanding of himself and the trauma he suffered wouldn't perform to levels they couldn't ever achieve before recovery?

Do you think he'd still be carrying on with the destructive behavior? Still be hooked on sleeping pills? Still drinking to numb the flashbacks? His trauma would have been affecting him throughout his career, not just the bad patches. It's like having sand poured on to you, slowly getting heavier and heavier.

Carrying trauma is like carrying a huge bag of grenades, weighing a ton, around with you, a Dele with some of that weight remove might be a revelation.

 

[RC89]

Legs get tired. Thoughts dont switch off. Its called a chemical imbalance. Its science. If you dont believe it, then that's on you.

Nothing to do with this interview and it's horrible what he's been through.

But with regard to the bolded, has this ever been scientifically actually proven to be a real thing or have a real impact (other than general mood that fluctuates in us all)? It seems to be banded about a lot but have there been any studies that corroborates this?

 

[FujiVice]

Nothing to do with this interview and it's horrible what he's been through.

But with regard to the bolded, has this ever been scientifically actually proven to be a real thing or have a real impact (other than general mood that fluctuates in us all)? It seems to be banded about a lot but have there been any studies that corroborates this?

NHS website:
"There's evidence that episodes of mania may occur when levels of noradrenaline are too high, and episodes of depression may be the result of noradrenaline levels becoming too low."