The United Irishman
"Martial is championship material at best"
Rooney also played in a multitude of positions throughout his careerCharlton was a midfielder not a striker
Rooney also played in a multitude of positions throughout his careerCharlton was a midfielder not a striker
Of course Rooney was more influential in the second half of the season. In fact, it could be argued that Rooney played his best football ever in the second half of that season, and was by far our best player.I think it's very close between those 2.
I think Berbatov that season has become slightly overrated.
He had 20 goals. 13 of them came in 4 games(Liverpool hat-trick, @Blackpool 2 goals in the comeback win, 3 vs Birmingham, 5 vs Blackburn).
So he had 7 in the other 28. And he did not feature much in the closing stages of that season(tbf did score a winner vs Bolton at OT).
I think Rooney was more influential than him the 2nd half of the season. Berbatov the 1st half.
Agree with all of this.Pointing to a trophy haul or goal tally misses the point. The question isn't: has Rooney had a great career? Because, obviously he has, but we're talking about a generational talent here - a great career, injuries permitting, is the bare minimum of expectation. It has to be acknowledged that we're talking about a player with so much ability, he had every right to be mentioned with the most elite of his generation when he was on his way up. That he faded away from that grouping to such an extent that bringing his name up in a top 10 in the world list would be ridiculed, highlights his relative fall from the heights so many of us expected him to ascend to and maintain.
If you said in 2004 that Rooney would go on to be one of the top 5 players in the world for the next 10yrs+ nobody would have batted an eyelid or ridiculed you, same as if you said this is Bobby Charlton's true successor, people wouldn't find the notion risible. Go ahead and say Rashford is Law's successor or Martial is the next George Best, and see how your view is greeted. It shows how highly Rooney was rated from the very beginning.
I don't get this line of thinking because even a slower, heavier Rooney is still a much better athlete than hundreds of other truly great players. If he honed his technique and worked tirelessly on his weaknesses, like so many have done, he could have modified his game completely and played out the remainder of his career as a completely different player to the firecracker he started off as.He was world class for a few years and brilliant for others, so yeah id say he did. not every brilliant player is going to be the best in the world, and he didnt really have the body for it in my opinion.
In hindsight we misjudged their potentials big time. But think when you first watched both of them, given their level of performance at the time I don't think there is one single person in 2003 that thought to themselves, Wayne Rooney would at no point be the best in the world, while the one trick pony, skinny kid from Portugal would go down as one of the GOAT with two Ballon D'or. Of course the road from potential to the realization of it is never straight and different from player to player.I think we misjudged their potentials. There is absolutely no way that Rooney could have become as good as Cristiano. He could have trained all day long, become a monk and eat just broccoli and still wouldn't be as good as Ronaldo.
But, I think that he could have become a bit better than he has been, and at his peak maybe reach Suarez/Ibra level. What is very probable though, is that his peak would have lasted longer if he would have taken care of himself better. And having had a better Rooney in the last couple of years would have made some difference. I mean, even a Rooney that is not at his peak (lets say the 2012-2013 version) would have likely send us near Chelsea's level this season.
Yes I would agree with that. His performances towards the tail end of that season were spectacular.Of course Rooney was more influential in the second half of the season. In fact, it could be argued that Rooney played his best football ever in the second half of that season, and was by far our best player.
Berbatov lost his place to Hernandez in the second half of 2010-2011, and didn't start in any of the important matches.
But he wasn't even in the catergory of the players below messi and ronaldo except for one season.I think it would be unfair to say Rooney hasn't fulfilled his potential. The lad has broken both Utd and Englands goalscoring records despite never really playing as a #9 for the majority of his career. Yes he never won the Ballon D'Or or a World Cup/European Championship but then again he has been unfortunate to be around in the same era as Messi and Ronaldo who i think will probably go down in history as the two best players to ever play the game.
No he wouldn't! That's unfounded bullshit. It is similar to expecting England to win the next World Cup, and then become disappointed when they don't.He could have been world's best player had he worked much harder and looked after himself in a better way.
To be fair neither was Rooney for large parts of his career. I would imagine he's only played up front as a no9 30-40% of his career.Charlton was a midfielder not a striker
But he could have reached Zlatan's level forget messi or ronaldo what about the tier of players below them.Rooney has worked very hard over the years. It is silly to believe that you get to be top scorer for country and Man Utd, without working hard! It is silly that some people are not impressed but they would expect Rooney to be the best player in the world and play till he is 42!!!... Rooney did not have Messi's talent, nor Ronaldo's body frame, but apart from those two there isn't anyone else in his generation who has been more successful.
Well I just remember what the situation was and I am old enough to have watched all his games for United and some of his games before joining. Had not been for his injury in 2004 he would have won the Euros for England. Well may I ask whether you had watched him in his early years because you are talking as if you had not. Silly? I do not think that it was silly to expect that of him because he was that good. I do not know what he was at 15 but I remember him at 16 and older. And yes mate, he was the greatest talent of his generation along with Ronaldo and he was better than Ronny until 2006. That was not just my observation but that was the universal truth. After that Ronaldo stepped up . As far as Messi is concerned he is a bit younger and when Wazza burst into the scene nobody had heard of Messi. Messi made his debut in 2004- when we bought Wazza for 30-odd million quid...No he wouldn't! That's unfounded bullshit. It is similar to expecting England to win the next World Cup, and then become disappointed when they don't.
How do you know how much talent Rooney had compared to other players? Rooney had talent, but he wasn't the greatest talent of his generation. At 15, Rooney had lots of talent, but Messi had more! So, Messi became better than Rooney. Nothing surprising here.
Over the years, we have seen a lot of players who had a lot of talent at ages 15, 17, 21. Some of them worked hard and became great players. Some of them didn't and disappeared. Rooney is one of the examples that worked hard and became a great player. It is silly to expect him to surpass Messi or Maradona. And I am mentioning those two on purpose, their lives and success is exceptional. And yes, Maradona is more exceptional than Messi, he won the world cup, too! Does anyone really believe that Maradona "did not fulfill his potential"???
Why?But he could have reached Zlatan's level forget messi or ronaldo what about the tier of players below them.
Well I just remember what the situation was and I am old enough to have watched all his games for United and some of his games before joining. Had not been for his injury in 2004 he would have won the Euros for England. Well may I ask whether you had watched him in his early years because you are talking as if you had not. Silly? I do not think that it was silly to expect that of him because he was that good. I do not know what he was at 15 but I remember him at 16 and older. And yes mate, he was the greatest talent of his generation along with Ronaldo and he was better than Ronny until 2006. That was not just my observation but that was the universal truth. After that Ronaldo stepped up and Rooney started declining. As far as Messi is concerned he is a bit younger and when Wazza burst into the scene nobody had heard of Messi. Messi made his debut in 2004- when we bought Wazza for 30-odd million quid...
Not at all. As I said Rooney hasn't even achieved zlatan's level which isn't near Messi. You can't say Rooney couldn't have reached zlatan's level. It is an underachievment that he was unable to play at a world class level with the likes of Zlatan, Iniesta,Xavi, Robben, Suarez etc. He never reached their level and I see that as not reaching his potential because it was clear he had atleast that potential.Why?
It is the same as saying that Zlatan is a failure because he never had Messi's success. He could, but he didn't, he became a journeyman.
How old are you mate? Did you watch football in 2004? If you say that those expectations were unrealistic then I guess you have not.That's exactly what I mean!!!
No, England would not have won the Euros! Even if Messi was playing for England in 2004, they would not have won it. And Messi did not win the World Cup, either!
People have unrealistic expectations. They like someone and they want to believe he is The Superman, the Roy of Rovers. Real life is not like this.
Greece in 2004 would beat England, even if England had Messi. Greece beat Portugal twice, and Portugal was playing at home and had Ronaldo AND Figo. Most of us cannot remember a single player from the Greek squad. Some tournaments are won by TEAMS, not individuals.How old are you mate? Did you watch football in 2004? If you say that those expectations were unrealistic then I guess you have not.
Actually, on second thought ... Rooney had a much better career than Zlatan! Zlatan did fine for himself, but he played in many countries and teams, and in ten years nobody will remember him. Rooney's records will be mentioned 50 years from now.Not at all. As I said Rooney hasn't even achieved zlatan's level which isn't near Messi. You can't say Rooney couldn't have reached zlatan's level. It is an underachievment that he was unable to play at a world class level with the likes of Zlatan, Iniesta,Xavi, Robben, Suarez etc. He never reached their level and I see that as not reaching his potential because it was clear he had atleast that potential.
Did you watch football then? I remember how the Greek team played and almost all of their players, I also remember they scored 60% of their goals from corners and 1 from cross from a direct free kick. Rooney had the talent to be the best player in the world or at least in the top 3 alongside Ronaldo and Messi and that is the bottom line. As I said I guess you did not watch football then in order to say that was not the case.Greece in 2004 would beat England, even if England had Messi. Greece beat Portugal twice, and Portugal was playing at home and had Ronaldo AND Figo. Most of us cannot remember a single player from the Greek squad. Some tournaments are won by TEAMS, not individuals.
HUH? One of the most baffling posts I've ever read. Staying at one club forever doesn't equal better career. Replace zlatan with rooney and im 100% sure we would have won even more trophies.Actually, on second thought ... Rooney had a much better career than Zlatan! Zlatan did fine for himself, but he played in many countries and teams, and in ten years nobody will remember him. Rooney's records will be mentioned 50 years from now.
Are you saying Rooney was never World Class?Not at all. As I said Rooney hasn't even achieved zlatan's level which isn't near Messi. You can't say Rooney couldn't have reached zlatan's level. It is an underachievment that he was unable to play at a world class level with the likes of Zlatan, Iniesta,Xavi, Robben, Suarez etc. He never reached their level and I see that as not reaching his potential because it was clear he had atleast that potential.
Because Rooney is English. The English people are always expecting the coming of a Messiah to lead them to World Cup glory since 1966, but this never happened. There was Gascoigne, there was Rooney, and last season they were talking about Ross Barkley. There were a lot of expectations on Rooney when he was young and people were negative towards Ronaldo. They all said that he would end up like Denilson because he dribbled way too much and was too showy.Still, I cannot understand those who say that Rooney had more talent than Ronaldo when they were 17. Perhaps it's because Ronaldo was a winger, Rooney was a striker, and goals are more important. But Ronaldo always had more talent than Rooney. And they both worked very hard and did a fantastic job. Perhaps Ronaldo worked harder than Rooney, but definitely Ronaldo had more talent than Rooney when they were 17.