Sure but Rooney wasn't only worse than berbatov in the first half he was extremely poor and had the whole off the field issues.
Did Wayne Rooney fulfil his potential?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yes I don't disagree there.
But Berbatov was basically an afterthought in the 2nd half of the season, so you could argue they negate each other in that aspect.
Either way, I thought Nani was more influential than both, but once Valencia returned and was in good form, he barely featured much too.
Rooney's performance @West Ham that season was memorable and one of his best.
No. He had the potential to be one of the 5-10 best players in the world, he never reached that level. He's had a fantastic career, especially on paper but watching it when was he world class? When was he peak? He never really pushed on as a player he became robotic, lost that flair in his game and his explosiveness left him early. He's had an amazingly successful career but it's been an odd one.
THANKS! for this post.
And everyone understanding he was sacrificed for the team and literally used by SAF in every position.
No.
Longevity had a large part in him getting the record.
He should of been Ronaldo level of player, but he never reached those heights. He should of been the best striker in the world, or one of. Can't say bar maybe 2010ish he was, and even then it's not a shoe in.
Fantastic player don't get me wrong, and the achievement is unbelievable. Everyone would of said he had more potential than Ronaldo though, and look how it turned out.
I could be wrong here, but in any season where we were successful and won something significant, was Rooney ever the main man? I don't think so.
Longevity had a large part in him getting the record.
He should of been Ronaldo level of player, but he never reached those heights. He should of been the best striker in the world, or one of. Can't say bar maybe 2010ish he was, and even then it's not a shoe in.
Fantastic player don't get me wrong, and the achievement is unbelievable. Everyone would of said he had more potential than Ronaldo though, and look how it turned out.
I could be wrong here, but in any season where we were successful and won something significant, was Rooney ever the main man? I don't think so.
He was moved position to accommodate better players. You don't play your best player out of his most effective position.
I think his record speaks for itself, he's won nearly every domestic honour he could win. He's also the record England goalscorer and Manchester United scorer.
What more did he need to do?
His country failed him as much as he failed them, we're shite.
What more did he need to do?
His country failed him as much as he failed them, we're shite.
Look after his body by not drinking and overeating so he wasn't spent at 28?
Are you also saying that Bobby Charlton didnt deserve the record? It tool him 17 years and 700 games, a lot longer and almost 200 more games than Rooney.
If also think that Charlton didnt then ok.
Agree
Maybe if the players treated playing for England seriously instead of a lads weekend away, they'd do a lot better. Rooney is as culpable as anyone for continuing that culture while all the other nations put England to shame.
But he's been a pro since he was 16 years of age, maybe he's just naturally slowing down.
Do you honestly think he's stayed at one of the world's biggest clubs whilst drinking and eating himself out of a career.
How the feck do you know how the players treated playing for England, the biggest issue England had was average players and shite managers.
I don't know really. Maybe I overhyped him at the start a bit but I was certain by the time he was 18 that this guy would be the best player in the world in a couple of years. Even later when Ronaldo and Messi had already entered the stage I thought he had the talent to be on the same level as those two which then in the coming years made me more and more annoyed with him always falling short of expectations apart from short periods in some seasons. Maybe that was unfair and I overrated him for too long and what we got of him simply was his best.
No. He had potential to be in that very little group behind Messi & Ronaldo (basically a Ballon D'Or winners in different times), his absolute best was at 09/10 but somehow one injury ended that season for him and this spell of godly form that he never reproduced. A perfect blend of his youth aggression and experience.
He is clearly behind Ibra and Suarez, even if we don't count other positions like wingers or midfielders (Xavi, Iniesta, Ribery, Robben etc.)
He is clearly behind Ibra and Suarez, even if we don't count other positions like wingers or midfielders (Xavi, Iniesta, Ribery, Robben etc.)
For me no.
Yep he doesn't even fall into the category of the players you mentioned let alone Ronaldo or Messi.
Let's get one thing straight, between the age of 18 and 26-27 Rooney was phenomenal, he was a team player, a work horse, a beast around the field. Anyone thinking he's not delivered in his career need to look at his records and achievements, he's done brilliant.
He was never Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane or Henry level, he was a different player to all of them, he was a player that allowed the great players to play. Appreciate what he did for them team rather than judge him on what you thought he should have done.
Some of our fans are totally pathetic.
He was never Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane or Henry level, he was a different player to all of them, he was a player that allowed the great players to play. Appreciate what he did for them team rather than judge him on what you thought he should have done.
Some of our fans are totally pathetic.
I dunno...
I should say, he has been very good and even great at times but he could have been far better for longer if he took better care of himself.
I dunno...
You taking the piss, do you honestly think he'd be so respected at any level if he wasn't professional enough to keep in shape. He's a different body shape to the likes of Ronaldo etc, Tevez looks fat in certain pictures but his engine is better then anyone's. Get a bloody grip, the lads been fantastic, yes he's declined, but like former players, why can't we respect that and see him take a lesser role in the team.
There is a perfectly good thread for that. This is the "Did Rooney fulfill his potential" thread.
The "collection of miserable moany gummers circulating their rubbish around and patting each other on the back about it for future use in venomous arguments to the death in order to defend their fantasy version of events" thread.
I like it.
It's a thread asking if he fulfilled his potential, not if he's been good. He clearly has been good- he is our joint all time top scorer- but he could have been better for longer if he had taken better care of himself- in my view.
If you can't handle a differing opinion on a topic that is highly subjective, maybe you should try getting a 'bloody grip'?
Probably not because for his age he really was peerless, streets ahead of Ronaldo.
But then who really does fulfil their "full" potential?
But then who really does fulfil their "full" potential?
He had a lot of injuries to his metatarsal early on. He went into a few competitions with England injured. I think considering everything - he's done well. I think if when we sold Ronaldo and the years under Moyes and LVG - were tough for everyone. If Jose had have taken over after Sir Alex we might be talking about a better last few years but It's tough to say. I think he's done better after being dropped and coming back from injury - again he looked relatively hungry. I think he's done fine.
Lot of my judgement has been clouded by his dip in form for last 4-5 years. But before that he has been absolute monster for us. What a amazing signing he has proved to be. Won everything there is to with us. Record Goalscorer for United is no fluke ,,that's some serious talent. Okay not Ronaldo and Messi level..but they are freaks.
Fulfilled his Potential ,,I don't know but he has been vital part of our success since the day he signed and forgetting his indiscretions he has been an absolute legend for us.
Fulfilled his Potential ,,I don't know but he has been vital part of our success since the day he signed and forgetting his indiscretions he has been an absolute legend for us.
Who?
Rooney's the All-time England scorer, All-time United scorer (joint) and 2nd all time Premier league scorer. Won everything in Club football (expect Europa)
Who else is there if not comparing him to Messi and Ronaldo. They were the two players who he was being compared with at 18, a time when people were speculating of his potential
Great career being England and Uniteds top goalscorer but his past few years seem to have tarnished his legacy he declined so fast.
He has also had a few muscle injuries, which does offer an alternate explanation for his apparent loss of power/ acceleration and early decline- although his loose play was seemingly unrelated. Hopefully his motivation is back so we can see Rooney adapt and play to his other strengths and have a positive impact on the side again.
I'm leaning towards 'no'.
I know genetics play some part in this, but there's no excuse for a United player to be as unfit as Rooney has been at times. Athleticism can't be underestimated in modern football. It's definitely held him back.
I also think he's had an attitude problem over the years(and I'm not even thinking about the transfer requests). Apart from a couple of seasons, Rooney has generally been a "streaky" striker. How often have you heard that Rooney needs someone/something to light a fire under his ass in order for him to start scoring regularly? But why did he need motivation to begin with? Isn't scoring goals regularly for your team great enough in itself? At times, it's as if he was resting on laurels. Maybe I'm being harsh, but it does feel like he took his position for granted during these spells. Truth be told, he's very fortunate to get this record. No one can take the goals away from him, but let's be fair: had Fergie stayed for a couple of more seasons, then it would never happened. Rooney getting this record despite being mediocre for 2-3 years, says more about how bad the situation has been post Fergie. Things look brighter now under Mourinho, and it's not surprising that out best football has come without Rooney.
Having said that though: no one can deny that Rooney has been a great player for us. At one point(2010), I'd argue that he was world class as well. Rooney is nowhere near my top 10 Fergie players, but that has more to do with us having some great players over the last decades. If anything, it's amazing that our top goalscorer will be ranked this low by a fair amount of supporters. It goes to show that football is a complex sport. ITts not just about scoring a lot of goals(though it certainly helps).
I know genetics play some part in this, but there's no excuse for a United player to be as unfit as Rooney has been at times. Athleticism can't be underestimated in modern football. It's definitely held him back.
I also think he's had an attitude problem over the years(and I'm not even thinking about the transfer requests). Apart from a couple of seasons, Rooney has generally been a "streaky" striker. How often have you heard that Rooney needs someone/something to light a fire under his ass in order for him to start scoring regularly? But why did he need motivation to begin with? Isn't scoring goals regularly for your team great enough in itself? At times, it's as if he was resting on laurels. Maybe I'm being harsh, but it does feel like he took his position for granted during these spells. Truth be told, he's very fortunate to get this record. No one can take the goals away from him, but let's be fair: had Fergie stayed for a couple of more seasons, then it would never happened. Rooney getting this record despite being mediocre for 2-3 years, says more about how bad the situation has been post Fergie. Things look brighter now under Mourinho, and it's not surprising that out best football has come without Rooney.
Having said that though: no one can deny that Rooney has been a great player for us. At one point(2010), I'd argue that he was world class as well. Rooney is nowhere near my top 10 Fergie players, but that has more to do with us having some great players over the last decades. If anything, it's amazing that our top goalscorer will be ranked this low by a fair amount of supporters. It goes to show that football is a complex sport. ITts not just about scoring a lot of goals(though it certainly helps).
In my opinion no. He was my favorite player for a long long time and I rated him as a more important player than Ronaldo when Ronaldo still played for United. Saying he was all about passion is wrong because he was quite a good dribbler back in the good old days, fast and could score from anywhere. I am not involving Messi in this because he is just so much more naturally talented then others but when you look for example Rooney vs Ronaldo, if Rooney would work as hard as Ronaldo he would be up there with 2 or 3 Balon d'or in his trophy room.
He had amazing career and will be remembered as one of the best players but he could be up there with Ronaldo and Messi. There are many reasons why he didn't fulfil his potential, not only that he didn't looked after his body but also the injuries slowed him down, family made him "less angry" and when he entered what should be his prime his speed left him (injuries), his aggresion was gone (became family man) and he didn't improved technique but tbf it got worse in every aspect (because he didn't tried to train as hard as some others did).
Great player but could be so much better...
He had amazing career and will be remembered as one of the best players but he could be up there with Ronaldo and Messi. There are many reasons why he didn't fulfil his potential, not only that he didn't looked after his body but also the injuries slowed him down, family made him "less angry" and when he entered what should be his prime his speed left him (injuries), his aggresion was gone (became family man) and he didn't improved technique but tbf it got worse in every aspect (because he didn't tried to train as hard as some others did).
Great player but could be so much better...
nah. He's been very very good at times, probably two seasons as a world beater. You'd expect at least 5 of those real wow seasons from looking at him at 16 wouldn't you? He's done a tonne for us on the pitch though and I'm very glad we've had him.
I don't think he's had the attitude to be better than he has though. Let's be honest, although his 'fat' thing has maybe been exaggerated, he's never been in great shape and clearly doesn't spend much time working on himself. These guys have nutritionists, PTs, all the help they need, and I don't think he's ever been close to a six pack (not saying a six pack affects football, but it is an indication of what you're eating/ how you're working out). That he had good stamina anyway over the 90 mins probably meant he could relax a bit, but that's also likely taken its toll now.
Compare him to Ronaldo's attitude when it comes to bettering oneself and athleticism and it's night and day.
I don't think he's had the attitude to be better than he has though. Let's be honest, although his 'fat' thing has maybe been exaggerated, he's never been in great shape and clearly doesn't spend much time working on himself. These guys have nutritionists, PTs, all the help they need, and I don't think he's ever been close to a six pack (not saying a six pack affects football, but it is an indication of what you're eating/ how you're working out). That he had good stamina anyway over the 90 mins probably meant he could relax a bit, but that's also likely taken its toll now.
Compare him to Ronaldo's attitude when it comes to bettering oneself and athleticism and it's night and day.
Definite no. I can't believe anyone can argue otherwise.
If you want a player who did fulfil his potential, look at Cristiano Ronaldo. He did what it took to fulfil his potential by devoting his entire life to football and had all the external factors help him along the way. Here comes the list of things Ronaldo has going for him to ensure he became the best he could possibly be and that Rooney doesn't:
1) Hard and focused training to fully develop the body and relevant skills, like Ronaldo has done with his shooting and heading for example. Especially in terms of staying fit and lean, Rooney leaves a lot to be desired.
2) Eating and drinking correctly, like Ronaldo does by being a teetotaller and employing chefs to ensure his diet keeps his performance levels at a maximum. Rooney drinks. Rooney occasionally smokes. Rooney probably even likes a kebab or two for dinner.
3) Few injuries, especially during the crucial early years. Ronaldo has hardly had any, while Rooney's been blighted with a lot of injuries, especially to his feet and ankles.
Come to think of it, there are a lot of similarities in Zlatan and Ronaldo in terms of how they've worked to become what they are, even if Zlatan took a little longer than Ronaldo before he matured and started playing at the highest levels.
Either way, Rooney hasn't fulfilled his potential in the true sense of the word. He became very, very good at his best, but to become the best you can possibly be requires an almost unhealthy amount of dedication that Rooney just doesn't have. That being said, he probably got close in his early twenties. He was an absolute force back then.
If you want a player who did fulfil his potential, look at Cristiano Ronaldo. He did what it took to fulfil his potential by devoting his entire life to football and had all the external factors help him along the way. Here comes the list of things Ronaldo has going for him to ensure he became the best he could possibly be and that Rooney doesn't:
1) Hard and focused training to fully develop the body and relevant skills, like Ronaldo has done with his shooting and heading for example. Especially in terms of staying fit and lean, Rooney leaves a lot to be desired.
2) Eating and drinking correctly, like Ronaldo does by being a teetotaller and employing chefs to ensure his diet keeps his performance levels at a maximum. Rooney drinks. Rooney occasionally smokes. Rooney probably even likes a kebab or two for dinner.
3) Few injuries, especially during the crucial early years. Ronaldo has hardly had any, while Rooney's been blighted with a lot of injuries, especially to his feet and ankles.
Come to think of it, there are a lot of similarities in Zlatan and Ronaldo in terms of how they've worked to become what they are, even if Zlatan took a little longer than Ronaldo before he matured and started playing at the highest levels.
Either way, Rooney hasn't fulfilled his potential in the true sense of the word. He became very, very good at his best, but to become the best you can possibly be requires an almost unhealthy amount of dedication that Rooney just doesn't have. That being said, he probably got close in his early twenties. He was an absolute force back then.
The very fact this thread exists answers the question to a certain extent. How many similar threads do you imagine exist among Ibrahimovich fans about him? Or Ronaldo? Or Iniesta?
The idea that no one thought Rooney could end up being our highest ever goal scorer is ridiculous. we bought him for 30m at 18 years of age, all the way back in 2004 ffs. When we signed him, he was by for the best rated footballing talent on the planet. I think people forget how good he was as a kid. He is a legend and will go down as one of our best players But to say he's exceeded expectations is BS.
As was Bryan Robson's...Dogged by injury and poor form and he is considered a club legend, and so should Rooney when he eventually retires.
Those are two entirely separate questions, though. Whether or not he is a legend has nothing to do with whether he fulfilled his potential or not.
Really? He equalled the record in 200 plus less games than Sir Bobby...So what on earth are you talking about?
I was quoting the poster stating that Rooney's last few years have been underwhelming, I was saying so were Robson's.
Charlton was a midfielder not a striker