Diego Simeone - the missing one

[_00_deathscar]

Sure, right, Atletico are overachievers, lets see how much they spent on transfers over the years.

17/18 - 102,00 M € 16/17 - 79,00 M € 15/16 - 143,61 M €

Doesn't look to me spending 325,00 M € over 3 seasons is really something to complain about. Fine if you want to feed the propaganda they overachieve compared with Real Madrid or Barcelona, United or City, but even that is debatable.

And who compared with Mourinho and mentioned youth players? We are talking about style of play, and yes Simeone teams feel more comfortable when they don't have the ball, the same thing posted here time and time again, regarding Mourinho.

I think a lot of people talk about Simeone or Atletico without watching them, not saying he hasn't done a great job with them, if you only look at football based on results, but as I don't like to discuss football based on stats I will say the same.

Simeone and Atletico aren't buying players with a bag of peanuts, that's for sure.

This is crazy - doesn't account for the fact that they've had to consistently sell and buy top players in a few cases. Thankfully a post (and more) after yours have debunked this.

And they're VASTLY overachieving compared to Barcelona and Real Madrid, seeing as those two are regularly the only teams stopping Atletico, even in the Champions League - and accounting for the difference in size of clubs, income etc.

 

[SCP]

From 10/11 through 11/12 and 12/13 they had finished 7th, 5th and 3rd.

Over the course of that time Atletico had sold 128.6 million euros in players and spent 122.75 million of it. So they made more money in sales than they spent on players and now they finish 3rd in the league behind Madrid and Barcelona.

Then in 13/14 they won the league with 70.6 million euros worth of departures and 36 million euros worth of spending.

They've since sold 407.05 million euros worth of players and bought 443.56 million euros worth of players.

So for a total of 606.25 million euros of sold talent and 602.31 million of it spent on players - Net PROFIT of 3.94 million euros just on transfers alone and not including bonuses from league positioning/winning and cup trophy winnings, here's what they did on the pitch :

7th, 5th, 3rd, 1st (Winners), 3rd, 3rd, 3rd and currently 2nd above Madrid in the league & Copa Del Rey winners, Europa League winners, Uefa Supercup winners and Champions League losing finalists twice

You cannot tell me that achieving all of that whilst making more money from sales of players than they've spent isnt overachieving.

Having said that Atletico havent bought particularly amazingly with a bunch of their signings not doing a great deal at the club. But they they didnt need to because they've done extremely well incorporating young players from their system. Perhaps its just that they have done such a great job promoting those young players that they became better players than the signings they made and perhaps that wouldnt have happened if Atletico didnt spend money on competition for those young players. All in all it worked out great for them.

Sounds like you need to take your own advice and do your research on Atletico Madrid and Simeone before talking about them

I don't need to do research about them and I am not talking with you so go find someone else to give advice.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Love him and love his style of football. He and Allegri are my two favourite managers and tacticians in world football.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Love him and love his style of football. He and Allegri are my two favourite managers and tacticians in world football.

How can you love Simeone's brand of football? It makes Mourinho seem like Bielsa.

 

[SCP]

This is crazy - doesn't account for the fact that they've had to consistently sell and buy top players in a few cases. Thankfully a post (and more) after yours have debunked this.

Crazy for what? For saying Atletico compared to clubs like Valencia or Sevilla spends more? I am talking about football played, don't care about net spend for nothing, or do you want me to bring here the net spend of clubs like Porto, Benfica, Sporting to have a football discussion here?

And they're VASTLY overachieving compared to Barcelona and Real Madrid, seeing as those two are regularly the only teams stopping Atletico, even in the Champions League - and accounting for the difference in size of clubs, income etc.

Overachieving in WHAT? Style of football? Number of trophies? Sorry if I am not a big fan of Simeone, and I don't discuss football based on net spend, if I have to start looking at net spend all over the world I might even bring stuff from Argentina or Brazil just to add more confusion here.

 

[AP88]

He's Argentinian.

I know he is, intended to elaborate on that point but got distacted then came back to it without doing so - Simeone’s methodology is Italian; his time at Inter and Lazio forged his managerial identity.

I love the man and think his counterattacking game is ideally suited to the Premier League.

He’s the coach Tottenham need to take them to the next level

 

[Ekeke]

I don't need to do research about them and I am not talking with you so go find someone else to give advice.

Very mature. Everyone makes mistakes, if you cant own up to them you'll be a bore to everyone

 

[FootballHQ]

Jose's two leagues had some gorgeous football. Please don't bullshit that Chavs haven't played good football winning the league.

One I remember most is Ancelloti tbh when they scored over 100 goals or near enough.

It's probably because they change manager so often I don't think they carve the same sort of identity as Arsenal did winning leagues under Wenger or Pep is doing now.

 

[SCP]

One I remember most is Ancelloti tbh when they scored over 100 goals or near enough.

It's probably because they change manager so often I don't think they carve the same sort of identity as Arsenal did winning leagues under Wenger or Pep is doing now.

The first 2 seasons of Chelsea under Mourinho were very good, 95 points in 2004/2005 and 91 in 2005/2006, while that team from the 103 goals with Ancelotti made 86 points, scored more goals but not so solid defensively, also won the FA Cup .

 

[damageinc.]

Simeone with Cambiasso as his second at Inter. That would be cool.

 

[Snow]

Griezman was playing off the wing but he was coming inside as a forward. He was scoring goals and being a threat, but Atletico were able to sign him because he was considered a good player, not a great player who is now one of the reasons Atletico apparently have better players than the teams they're above.

Well they're above Madrid (and won the league in 13/14 so both Madrid and Barcelona were behind them) who have more marquee players, especially marquee players that werent developed from youth at Atletico.

Atletico are a better team as in they are organized and work together better. They are far closer to performing at their maximum potential than Madrid are. That doesn't mean they have better players or that if those players go elsewhere they'll do as well as they do for Atletico.

They're a better unit than we are too. Better organized, tighter and not reliant on the world's best keeper to save them but have always scored a similar amount of goals as us and Mourinho's teams in each of those seasons.

And again Simeone has been a lot less reliant on signings and far better at promoting the young players at the club and making them core players. Certainly havent been spending what we have only to end up weaker than they are.

That's what I said but in a different way. They've not been reliant on signings but at the same time a good portion of their signings have been poor, like LvG poor. Not fair to compare them to us as they don't have the same pressure on them to win titles so the luxury of using many youths is there. Also SAF left an old team and the subsequent managers spent good money on bad replacements and thus more money was needed. Our academy wasn't as good but we did make use of it in some ways unlike say City who we are competing with who have still spent a lot more money (and that's saying a lot considering the amounts we're talking about).

In some ways though he has spent money and ended up weaker than they are. Real and Barca were better a few seasons ago, so were Atlético. All three teams have gone down in quality and that's partly because Simeone hasn't been able to replace players with better players. Instead of Gabi he's got Partey. Godín is older, he's had problem with strikers after Costa and he's never been able to properly rotate his wingers because his purchases has not panned out for some reason or other (Gaitan, Cerci and buying Vitolo for over 30m and loaning him away?). Basically he's had a good core that hasn't been a need for to replace until now with his options in CM being older and his attacking purchases besides Griezmann all being failures and thus the attack has suffered a bit.

I don't see what was so surprising about Griezmann joining Atlético. They were at the time a top 10 team in Europe, he likes Spain and it was a massive step up for him.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Simeone as a manager. He does a good job and I think he'll be able to do a good job at another team but I just don't like his style, his personality and I wouldn't want to watch his football every week.

 

[Ekeke]

That's what I said but in a different way. They've not been reliant on signings but at the same time a good portion of their signings have been poor, like LvG poor. Not fair to compare them to us as they don't have the same pressure on them to win titles so the luxury of using many youths is there. Also SAF left an old team and the subsequent managers spent good money on bad replacements and thus more money was needed. Our academy wasn't as good but we did make use of it in some ways unlike say City who we are competing with who have still spent a lot more money (and that's saying a lot considering the amounts we're talking about).

In some ways though he has spent money and ended up weaker than they are. Real and Barca were better a few seasons ago, so were Atlético. All three teams have gone down in quality and that's partly because Simeone hasn't been able to replace players with better players. Instead of Gabi he's got Partey. Godín is older, he's had problem with strikers after Costa and he's never been able to properly rotate his wingers because his purchases has not panned out for some reason or other (Gaitan, Cerci and buying Vitolo for over 30m and loaning him away?). Basically he's had a good core that hasn't been a need for to replace until now with his options in CM being older and his attacking purchases besides Griezmann all being failures and thus the attack has suffered a bit.

I don't see what was so surprising about Griezmann joining Atlético. They were at the time a top 10 team in Europe, he likes Spain and it was a massive step up for him.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Simeone as a manager. He does a good job and I think he'll be able to do a good job at another team but I just don't like his style, his personality and I wouldn't want to watch his football every week.

I dont think thats true at all. After they won the league, there was pressure for them to carry on. They spent more money to do that, spending more money than they took in several seasons, which was out of character for them. Atletico have been winners in the past so when they won the league again, the demand was there to kick on and make it happen more often. They havent quite got there yet but havent fallen too far from contention.

If we compare their finishes and results, 3rd a lot, CL finals twice, Europa League, Domestic Cup and now 2nd in the league just as we are, they've done better than we have in that time and yes, with pressure to do so. In fact I'd say more pressure than we had, because for several seasons our fans have been talking about how we only need to finish in the top 4 and they'd be happy, despite us spending huge amounts of money. So the mentality that we have to be number 1 hasnt been there. We have allowed our standards to drop a lot.

Atletico have improved in some areas and stayed the same in others. The young players who came in have improved the defence and midfield while Griezman has learned to play as a central striker and Costa isnt missed. Their attack and goal tallies are very similar to previous seasons with the other players you mentioned. They havent significantly improved it, they are still a lower scoring team (just like we are) but its no worse.

The point about Griezmann is he's probably considered Atletico's best player, and the poster who didnt like me saying Atletico are over achievers in Simeone's time there suggested thats not true because they have better players than everyone they finish above. Atletico signed him when other bigger teams could have but they didnt at the time consider him a top player they needed to sign. He improved at Atletico and showed more versatility playing a different role, centrally.

So to ignore the fact he proved himself more and improved at Atletico and that Real Madrid could have signed him if they really wanted to, is silly. He may now be a better player than some of the Madrid players but thats partly because of his improvement. And I dont think many people would agree that Atletico on the whole have better players than Real Madrid, they're just set up to get more out of their players than teams like Madrid.

 

[Snow]

I dont think thats true at all. After they won the league, there was pressure for them to carry on. They spent more money to do that, spending more money than they took in several seasons, which was out of character for them. Atletico have been winners in the past so when they won the league again, the demand was there to kick on and make it happen more often. They havent quite got there yet but havent fallen too far from contention.

If we compare their finishes and results, 3rd a lot, CL finals twice, Europa League, Domestic Cup and now 2nd in the league just as we are, they've done better than we have in that time and yes, with pressure to do so. In fact I'd say more pressure than we had, because for several seasons our fans have been talking about how we only need to finish in the top 4 and they'd be happy, despite us spending huge amounts of money. So the mentality that we have to be number 1 hasnt been there. We have allowed our standards to drop a lot.

Atletico have improved in some areas and stayed the same in others. The young players who came in have improved the defence and midfield while Griezman has learned to play as a central striker and Costa isnt missed. Their attack and goal tallies are very similar to previous seasons with the other players you mentioned. They havent significantly improved it, they are still a lower scoring team (just like we are) but its no worse.

The point about Griezmann is he's probably considered Atletico's best player, and the poster who didnt like me saying Atletico are over achievers in Simeone's time there suggested thats not true because they have better players than everyone they finish above. Atletico signed him when other bigger teams could have but they didnt at the time consider him a top player they needed to sign. He improved at Atletico and showed more versatility playing a different role, centrally.

So to ignore the fact he proved himself more and improved at Atletico and that Real Madrid could have signed him if they really wanted to, is silly. He may now be a better player than some of the Madrid players but thats partly because of his improvement. And I dont think many people would agree that Atletico on the whole have better players than Real Madrid, they're just set up to get more out of their players than teams like Madrid.

I don't think Real being below registers in this case. Besides Barca and Real they have better players than other teams.

When Griezmann was bought Real had just bough Bale. Their front 3 was Ronalde-Benzema-Bale and they splashed the cash on James Rodriguez. Not going for Griezmann was perfectly reasonable because he was much less of a Galactico signing. It also wouldn't make much sense for Griezmann to go there.
He has certainly improved at Atlético but personally I'm not surprised. In his Sociedad days I used to watch La Liga a lot more and I did watch their games, partially because I really liked him as a player. I don't think many people on here had watched him at all before his Atlético move.

I don't agree that the pressure was on Atlético to replicate their league winning form. The reality is that Real and Barca are just so tough to beat that mainly staying competitive is good enough.

 

[kg2k16]

Simeone with Cambiasso as his second at Inter. That would be cool.

He will be the next coach of Inter, after he leaves Atletico. He has said that he would love to coach Inter some day. That day is coming in my honest opinion. Not next year, but in 2019-2020.

 

[Ekeke]

I don't think Real being below registers in this case. Besides Barca and Real they have better players than other teams.

When Griezmann was bought Real had just bough Bale. Their front 3 was Ronalde-Benzema-Bale and they splashed the cash on James Rodriguez. Not going for Griezmann was perfectly reasonable because he was much less of a Galactico signing. It also wouldn't make much sense for Griezmann to go there.
He has certainly improved at Atlético but personally I'm not surprised. In his Sociedad days I used to watch La Liga a lot more and I did watch their games, partially because I really liked him as a player. I don't think many people on here had watched him at all before his Atlético move.

I don't agree that the pressure was on Atlético to replicate their league winning form. The reality is that Real and Barca are just so tough to beat that mainly staying competitive is good enough.

Of course being above Madrid counts. Of course finishing above Madrid and Barcelona and winning the league counts. As does getting to the champions league final twice, getting further than Barcelona.

And we havent been competitive. Our fans have accepted the Arsenal "4th is good enough" mantra over the past several years.

Atletico had more expectation than that.

 

[FootballHQ]

"
He has certainly improved at Atlético but personally I'm not surprised. In his Sociedad days I used to watch La Liga a lot more and I did watch their games, partially because I really liked him as a player. I don't think many people on here had watched him at all before his Atlético move.

I don't agree that the pressure was on Atlético to replicate their league winning form. The reality is that Real and Barca are just so tough to beat that mainly staying competitive is good enough"

I'm sure they did. Real Sociedad were in Man. United's group the year before he moved in the CL. Pretty sure there was discussion about how high he could step up at that point on here.

Also need to remember he was still uncapped by France at that point due to being banned for ill discipline with under 21s.

I also remember at La Real he had bleached white hair (looked a bit like Billy Idol!) so he stood out for that.

I thought he'd be a great pick up for any premier league club at that point seeing as he was available for about 20 million. Mind you around that time I also thought Fegouhli was going to be a great signing for a premier league club and he flopped at West Ham.

 

[FootballHQ]

Of course being above Madrid counts. Of course finishing above Madrid and Barcelona and winning the league counts. As does getting to the champions league final twice, getting further than Barcelona.

And we havent been competitive. Our fans have accepted the Arsenal "4th is good enough" mantra over the past several years.

Atletico had more expectation than that.

Think he needs to be remembered that aswell as Madrid and Barca winning the last four CLs, they also have the two greatest players in modern history playing for each team.

Trying to keep up with two sides who have 40 goals a season players isn't easy.

That's not comparable to premier league where top sides had declined until recently (I'm thinking Leicester season). Of course over next few years Salah and De Bruyne could morph into those types of players if they replicate this season over number of years.

If you want a guide to Atletico look back to their years between 2004-11 before Simao came in. They spend loads of money during that period on strikers and midfielders. Their league finishes were 11th, 10th, 7th, 4th, 4th, 9th and 7th.

In Simeone's five full seasons they've never finished lower than 3rd and will be second this year.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Wouldn't want him at United, he's essentially Jose without the trophy cabinet and a lack of English.

If he joined any PL team, Chelsea would be the most likely in my opinion. He'd bring a negative, defensive style of football that none of the big teams would want, nor have the personnel to carry out. Chelsea have the pieces in place for me, he could turn them into a solid 1-0 outfit quite quickly I reckon.

 

[simplyared]

After seeing the return leg against Arsenal you can only admire the man for what he's achieved with that Atletico team. Such a well drilled outfit with quality and not least passion throughout makes you wonder how they didn't go further in CL. Griezman is world class and it looks like he's getting more out of Costa than we've seen on a long time. And yes he was confined to the stands for the match yesterday. Him not being on the touchline didn't matter a shit. His players already know what is required of them. How could we not want this man in the PL? Chelsea would probably be his club.

 

[DWelbz19]

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[Schneckerl]

Great manager, but wouldn't want him to manage my team because I don't want to get bored to death.

 

[Ekeke]

I dont think their performance against Arsenal yesterday was at all boring. Its exactly what we used to do against Arsenal with Sir Alex as manager. Try to contain them, pinch the ball, break quickly and score. Our front players looked good in those matches, and Atletico's did yesterday.

 

[Adisa]

The way I feel about them is probably the way neutrals feel about us.
They are often very difficult to watch.

 

[SirAF]

Wouldn't want him at United, he's essentially Jose without the trophy cabinet and a lack of English.

If he joined any PL team, Chelsea would be the most likely in my opinion. He'd bring a negative, defensive style of football that none of the big teams would want, nor have the personnel to carry out. Chelsea have the pieces in place for me, he could turn them into a solid 1-0 outfit quite quickly I reckon.

Tbf, he's done quite well considering he's been up against both Barcelona and Real. Simeone has never finished below 3rd, he's won La Liga and reached two (?) CL finals where he's been done by Real - as expected.

 

[Minimalist]

Can’t see them not winning the EL now.

Thought they played very well last night for what it’s worth. Not boring at all.

 

[giorno]

Simeone with Cambiasso as his second at Inter. That would be cool.

Nope. Simeone comes with Burgos and Ortega. They're a trinity, Simeone is merely the face of it.

 

[giorno]

Him not being on the touchline didn't matter a shit.

That's because Burgos is as much the manager as Simeone

 

[Ish]

Would be interesting to see how he performs at a bigger club, with a lot more money. He’s spent money, but I’d guess his net spend is low as he’s always needed to replace outgoing stars.

I suppose managers don’t change their style dramatically - from one club to the next. I’d have thought he’d be a good fit for arsenal - toughen them up and make them extremely hard working and solid defensively. They have a decent enough technical base in attack to still score a goal or 2.

 

[SirAF]

Would be interesting to see how he performs at a bigger club, with a lot more money. He’s spent money, but I’d guess his net spend is low as he’s always needed to replace outgoing stars.

I suppose managers don’t change their style dramatically - from one club to the next. I’d have thought he’d be a good fit for arsenal - toughen them up and make them extremely hard working and solid defensively. They have a decent enough technical base in attack to still score a goal or 2.

He would be fantastic for Arsenal! Hopefully they don't go for him.

 

[Ish]

Nope. Simeone comes with Burgos and Ortega. They're a trinity, Simeone is merely the face of it.

Is that Ariel Ortega?

 

[Ish]

He would be fantastic for Arsenal! Hopefully they don't go for him.

Yeah, he’s certainly make things even more interesting in the EPL. His style would be a welcome addition tbf and itd be anything but easy points for the rest.

You can already smell the Arsenal fans’ snobbery though, couldn’t you? Even on that arse tv - one of those guys was already saying how “attacking football” is a prerequisite for arsenal etc.

Guess he’s forgotten the fab 5 they had at the back in the 90’s.....1-0 to the arsenal is an actual chant.

 

[SirAF]

Yeah, he’s certainly make things even more interesting in the EPL. His style would be a welcome addition tbf and itd be anything but easy points for the rest.

You can already smell the Arsenal fans’ snobbery though, couldn’t you? Even on that arse tv - one of those guys was already saying how “attacking football” is a prerequisite for arsenal etc.

Guess he’s forgotten the fab 5 they had at the back in the 90’s.....1-0 to the arsenal is an actual chant.

Oh yeah.

 

[FootballHQ]

When you look at it Inter are exactly where Atletico were in 2011. Massive club with underperforming squad who can't even qualify for CL.

Job is made for Simeone....when he wants it.

 

[giorno]

Is that Ariel Ortega?

Nope. Fitness coach. Actually the most important person on that coaching staff, more than Simeone and Burgos

 

[izec]

I dont think they play boring, they have an intensity and urgency to their game which i like. Atletico press much more than we do, which makes the game more watchable due to more movement and better counter attacks. Thats one thing i dont like under Jose, we seem to sit back too much and completely forget or arent able to attack, prime example being the Sevilla game

 

[Ish]

Nope. Fitness coach. Actually the most important person on that coaching staff, more than Simeone and Burgos

Hahaha would have been a massive surprise if Ariel Ortega was the fitness coach. Awesome little player though. Liked him.

 

[simplyared]

Those who believe his football is more defensive/unattractive/boring than Mourinho's: Didn't see much of that in tonights EL-final!

 

[vangagal]

Those who believe his football is more defensive/unattractive/boring than Mourinho's: Didn't see much of that in tonights EL-final!

You want Jose out Simeone in?

 

[paulscholes18]

You want Jose out Simeone in?

I would be happy with that, counter attacking 4-4-2

 

[Ishdalar]

I dont think they play boring, they have an intensity and urgency to their game which i like. Atletico press much more than we do, which makes the game more watchable due to more movement and better counter attacks. Thats one thing i dont like under Jose, we seem to sit back too much and completely forget or arent able to attack, prime example being the Sevilla game

Maybe in big games, but there's the league, and Atletico are dreadful to watch in like 70% of the league games.

One example, they scored a goal in the firts minute vs Malaga months ago, Malaga were dead last, awful and everyone knew they were going to get relegated, still, Atletico didn't shoot at the target for the 89' minutes after the goal, just a whole lot of "nothing happened" that game.

Maybe you can't ask them to play like City or Real, but surely they could improve their image in a lot of games.