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2022-23 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
8
Clean sheets
3
Goals
0
Assists
1
Yellow cards
3

NZT-One

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You said "But isn't 5/10 a par performance and not 6? I mean, that would indicate the math wouldn't it :D otherwise, you'd only have 4 grades to describe good performances but 5 for bad ones."

If 5 was the baseline then the reverse would be true as you'd have 4 grades for bad performances and 5 for good ones. The math is just as bad either way.
:D Maybe I don't get it.

5 is neither good, nor bad
bad performances 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 = 5 steps
good performances 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 = 5 steps

If you want, take 0 and 10 away, its still equal number of steps.

if 6 is neither good, nor bad
bad performances 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = 6 steps
good performances 7, 8, 9, 10 = 4 steps

Even if you say, 6/10 would be considered a good performance and there is no absolute middleground, you'd still have more negative steps than positive.
 

Zlaatan

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:D Maybe I don't get it.

5 is neither good, nor bad
bad performances 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 = 5 steps
good performances 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 = 5 steps

If you want, take 0 and 10 away, its still equal number of steps.

if 6 is neither good, nor bad
bad performances 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = 6 steps
good performances 7, 8, 9, 10 = 4 steps

Even if you say, 6/10 would be considered a good performance and there is no absolute middleground, you'd still have more negative steps than positive.
The grading system goes from 1-10. 0 isn't available.

I agree that 6 being the baseline doesn't make sense from a mathematical point of view, but it's from what I've seen what most people use as a standard for grading pro footballers. Math has nothing to do with it, it's one of those "it just is what it is" type things.
 

Olecurls99

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A 1 rating would be if I went out there at the much rustier end of the 37 years spectrum, and kept losing the ball easily and passed out after 25 minutes.

All PL players tend to play to at least a 6 baseline. It's quite rare that a PL player gives a 3 or 4 performance. That's why they're highly paid professional footballers.
 

Olecurls99

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Dalot has been 7, 8 or 9 the last 4 or 5 games
 

NZT-One

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Dalot has been 7, 8 or 9 the last 4 or 5 games
Sure, might be the best RB in the world right now ^^ 7, 8 or 9 while improving, guess he is going to get only 9s and 10s as soon as he reaches all of his potential. I guess, it is a good sign that hype trains are already rolling again.

A 1 rating would be if I went out there at the much rustier end of the 37 years spectrum, and kept losing the ball easily and passed out after 25 minutes.

All PL players tend to play to at least a 6 baseline. It's quite rare that a PL player gives a 3 or 4 performance. That's why they're highly paid professional footballers.
This is a pretty weird rating system to me... so 6 means standard PL level neither good nor bad, 1 is almost 40yo non professional and Dalots last games were 7-9. Honestly mate, what rating would you give a player like Eriksen then for last games? Or Haaland this season? Or KDB over the last 2 years? Salah? 7-9 sounds like there isn't much room to improve anymore. I find that bewildering to be honest.

(Good we talked about that, allows me saving time wondering about the average ratings players get in the matchday threads.)
 
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AussieDevil

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What’s great about him is that he is 2 footed and can also play LB.

I always like having a double sided fullback in the squad.
If Laird makes the step up next season than we could have two double sided fullbacks in the team. It’s very very rare but Liverpool would interchange their fullbacks at times during their title winning season. It’s also very helpful after a team loses possession and players can slot in whether they need to until they can regroup.
 

NoPace

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Sure, might be the best RB in the world right now ^^ 7, 8 or 9 while improving, guess he is going to get only 9s and 10s as soon as he reaches all of his potential. I guess, it is a good sign that hype trains are already rolling again.


This is a pretty weird rating system to me... so 6 means standard PL level neither good nor bad, 1 is almost 40yo non professional and Dalots last games were 7-9. Honestly mate, what rating would you give a player like Eriksen then for last games? Or Haaland this season? Or KDB over the last 2 years? Salah? 7-9 sounds like there isn't much room to improve anymore. I find that bewildering to be honest.

(Good we talked about that, allows me saving time wondering about the average ratings players get in the matchday threads.)
I think the Kicker grades are more intuitive, except for going down instead of up which makes them annoying: 1-6 with 6 being horrific and 1 world class. Dalot would be for me a 2.5 so far this season, and KDB probably a 1.5 the last couple years. Looking at last year's PFA team, you can give Allison and Van Dijk the same 1.5 (saved a million breakaways, does the other stuff well) and everyone else on the team a 2, though probably Cancelo deserves a 1.75 as he was fantastic for much of the season.
 

Olecurls99

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Sure, might be the best RB in the world right now ^^ 7, 8 or 9 while improving, guess he is going to get only 9s and 10s as soon as he reaches all of his potential. I guess, it is a good sign that hype trains are already rolling again.


This is a pretty weird rating system to me... so 6 means standard PL level neither good nor bad, 1 is almost 40yo non professional and Dalots last games were 7-9. Honestly mate, what rating would you give a player like Eriksen then for last games? Or Haaland this season? Or KDB over the last 2 years? Salah? 7-9 sounds like there isn't much room to improve anymore. I find that bewildering to be honest.

(Good we talked about that, allows me saving time wondering about the average ratings players get in the matchday threads.)
Yeah you'll find that 6 is what most players achieve because, you know, they are actually really good players who got to the top of the game.

Dalot has been making multiple chances in games and shutting down his wingers like Diaz and Martinelli. Hence the 8s and 9s. If a full back does that then they are playing to the top of the game. He's been as good as Eriksen who also has been performing great.

Haaland getting a hat trick is at least a 9 for me. He's been playing great too. The numbers have to be achievable my man or else they'll all be stuck in your 4,5 and 6 soup.

Ooh, he was playing well 6.
Ooh I didn't notice him. 5
He was poor. 4

7, 8, 9 and 10 are reserved for Messi and Haaland
 

NZT-One

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I think the Kicker grades are more intuitive, except for going down instead of up which makes them annoying: 1-6 with 6 being horrific and 1 world class. Dalot would be for me a 2.5 so far this season, and KDB probably a 1.5 the last couple years. Looking at last year's PFA team, you can give Allison and Van Dijk the same 1.5 (saved a million breakaways, does the other stuff well) and everyone else on the team a 2, though probably Cancelo deserves a 1.75 as he was fantastic for much of the season.
Like German School grades then I guess. Yeah makes sense. I mean, it is a very difficult thing to find grades. Some people are only seeing one player in one game isolated, the next person sees the player in connection to his team and opponent in one specific game, the next guy goes one player over the last couple of games and so on and so on. It is a tricky thing to do, I can understand all the systems described in the thread, but some seem to be skewed to me. I guess just like my thinking is crazy to them.

Yeah you'll find that 6 is what most players achieve because, you know, they are actually really good players who got to the top of the game.

Dalot has been making multiple chances in games and shutting down his wingers like Diaz and Martinelli. Hence the 8s and 9s. If a full back does that then they are playing to the top of the game. He's been as good as Eriksen who also has been performing great.

Haaland getting a hat trick is at least a 9 for me. He's been playing great too. The numbers have to be achievable my man or else they'll all be stuck in your 4,5 and 6 soup.

Ooh, he was playing well 6.
Ooh I didn't notice him. 5
He was poor. 4

7, 8, 9 and 10 are reserved for Messi and Haaland
Two things:
1) Why would you come up with a system, that is applicable for you and professional footballers in the first place? What is the purpose for it - if we want to evaluate how good our players are, we have to compare them with the players of our rivals in the league and in Europe. No need to compare them with yourself, right? I accept if that is your system, I just don't see the need for it.

2) If you think, Dalot has been as instrumental to our success as Eriksen, then so be it. I'm pretty sure, outside of the fanbase you wouldn't find a lot of people to confirm that but who knows.
About your last point - why shouldn't the highest numbers be restricted to the best players? I mean, if somebody is as talented as Messi and he is realising this talent to a big extent in one game, he should get the highest grades for it. If Dalot tops the tackling charts, sprint charts, shoots dangerously on goal, makes an assist or two or at least serves crosses or passes which only doesn't result in goals because of bad strikters then of course he is eligible fo the highest notes - but he didn't do it for us yet - thats the point. If he earned an 8 or 9, you put him next to best performers in the league, where is the room for him to improve in that case.
 

Foxbatt

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Like German School grades then I guess. Yeah makes sense. I mean, it is a very difficult thing to find grades. Some people are only seeing one player in one game isolated, the next person sees the player in connection to his team and opponent in one specific game, the next guy goes one player over the last couple of games and so on and so on. It is a tricky thing to do, I can understand all the systems described in the thread, but some seem to be skewed to me. I guess just like my thinking is crazy to them.


Two things:
1) Why would you come up with a system, that is applicable for you and professional footballers in the first place? What is the purpose for it - if we want to evaluate how good our players are, we have to compare them with the players of our rivals in the league and in Europe. No need to compare them with yourself, right? I accept if that is your system, I just don't see the need for it.

2) If you think, Dalot has been as instrumental to our success as Eriksen, then so be it. I'm pretty sure, outside of the fanbase you wouldn't find a lot of people to confirm that but who knows.
About your last point - why shouldn't the highest numbers be restricted to the best players? I mean, if somebody is as talented as Messi and he is realising this talent to a big extent in one game, he should get the highest grades for it. If Dalot tops the tackling charts, sprint charts, shoots dangerously on goal, makes an assist or two or at least serves crosses or passes which only doesn't result in goals because of bad strikters then of course he is eligible fo the highest notes - but he didn't do it for us yet - thats the point. If he earned an 8 or 9, you put him next to best performers in the league, where is the room for him to improve in that case.
The point is that he has done a lot of it regularly this season after the first two games.
 

Adam-Utd

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Is it me or is he looking a lot bigger?
Think that's just him being more aggressive and actually using his body now.

He was always a big lad even when he first joined, but he played like he didn't want to get hurt. Now he's getting stuck right in.
 

OrcaFat

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A 1 rating would be if I went out there at the much rustier end of the 37 years spectrum, and kept losing the ball easily and passed out after 25 minutes.

All PL players tend to play to at least a 6 baseline. It's quite rare that a PL player gives a 3 or 4 performance. That's why they're highly paid professional footballers.
You guys are having a fun discussion about ratings. From what several of you are saying, it seems pretty clear that everyone is using their own system and 8/10 for one person could easily be 6/10 for another.

I think there is a known phenomenon that most people tend to use the middle numbers, probably 5-7. I used to go to a blind beer tasting event where everyone tried beers and scored them out of ten. Pretty much everyone gave 6 or 7 to nearly all the beers. In later years, decimals were introduced (so we could rate things 6.2 or 7.7 or whatever) and then the ratings became concentrated around 6.5 to 7.5. Weird but true.
 

TwoSheds

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You guys are having a fun discussion about ratings. From what several of you are saying, it seems pretty clear that everyone is using their own system and 8/10 for one person could easily be 6/10 for another.

I think there is a known phenomenon that most people tend to use the middle numbers, probably 5-7. I used to go to a blind beer tasting event where everyone tried beers and scored them out of ten. Pretty much everyone gave 6 or 7 to nearly all the beers. In later years, decimals were introduced (so we could rate things 6.2 or 7.7 or whatever) and then the ratings became concentrated around 6.5 to 7.5. Weird but true.
I'd love to sit next to you guys at a party, would be a riot.
 

Olecurls99

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Like German School grades then I guess. Yeah makes sense. I mean, it is a very difficult thing to find grades. Some people are only seeing one player in one game isolated, the next person sees the player in connection to his team and opponent in one specific game, the next guy goes one player over the last couple of games and so on and so on. It is a tricky thing to do, I can understand all the systems described in the thread, but some seem to be skewed to me. I guess just like my thinking is crazy to them.


Two things:
1) Why would you come up with a system, that is applicable for you and professional footballers in the first place? What is the purpose for it - if we want to evaluate how good our players are, we have to compare them with the players of our rivals in the league and in Europe. No need to compare them with yourself, right? I accept if that is your system, I just don't see the need for it.

2) If you think, Dalot has been as instrumental to our success as Eriksen, then so be it. I'm pretty sure, outside of the fanbase you wouldn't find a lot of people to confirm that but who knows.
About your last point - why shouldn't the highest numbers be restricted to the best players? I mean, if somebody is as talented as Messi and he is realising this talent to a big extent in one game, he should get the highest grades for it. If Dalot tops the tackling charts, sprint charts, shoots dangerously on goal, makes an assist or two or at least serves crosses or passes which only doesn't result in goals because of bad strikters then of course he is eligible fo the highest notes - but he didn't do it for us yet - thats the point. If he earned an 8 or 9, you put him next to best performers in the league, where is the room for him to improve in that case.
I was merely attempting humour when I spoke about myself playing. I'll stop now. Most people agree that if a player has a decent game he gets a 6. That's the baseline, after that he has to do something wrong to lose marks. It's always the way I've understood it.

When I give Dalot a 7,8 or 9 I'm comparing him to other full backs. When he creates 3 chances in a game, progresses the ball really well and shuts out the winger I consider that a 8 for a full back. He's had those games already this year. Maybe I was pushing it with 9 but he's had at least 4 7+ games imo and 2 5- games tbf.
 

NZT-One

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The point is that he has done a lot of it regularly this season after the first two games.
A lot of what?

I was merely attempting humour when I spoke about myself playing. I'll stop now. Most people agree that if a player has a decent game he gets a 6. That's the baseline, after that he has to do something wrong to lose marks. It's always the way I've understood it.

When I give Dalot a 7,8 or 9 I'm comparing him to other full backs. When he creates 3 chances in a game, progresses the ball really well and shuts out the winger I consider that a 8 for a full back. He's had those games already this year. Maybe I was pushing it with 9 but he's had at least 4 7+ games imo and 2 5- games tbf.
Just want to make it clear, I think, that your assessment is totally fine and legit and all. I just don't share it and try to describe the reasons. I just checked fbref for some context:

Compared to all defenders in the league (146), Dalot is on the following places

xG9
xA13
npxG9
npxG + xA9 (R. James, Perisic, Neco Williams, Gabriel, Trippier, Struijk, Mee, Henry, Dalot)
xG per 9015
xA per 9024
xG+xA per 9021

Sofascore

Rating of Dalot 7.07, (19th best defender, from a fast glance 5th best fullback)
Successful dribbles (4, 10th best defender)
Tackles (14, 8th best defender)
Interceptions (9, 24th best)
Errors led to shots (1, 3rd "best", 1st place also 1)
Dribbled past (5, 10th)

Assists (1, 10th best defender)
Big chances created (1, 14th)
Key passes (10, 3rd)
Passes to assist (0)
Accurate crosses percentage (45.45, 13th)
Accurate final third passes (61, 13th)
Accurate own half passes (79, 66th)

Ground duels won percentage (52, 83rd)
Aerial duels won (63, 55th)
Total duels won (56, 72nd)
Accurate passes (73.05, 107th best, seems pretty skewed due to number of minutes bigger than many in the Top20)
Shots on target (3, 3rd - shared 1st place)
Yellow cards (3, 4th)
Fouls (9, 3rd "best", 1st is Malacia with 10 fouls)

Its only stats I know and it covers the 1st two games as well, but it is what it is.
Edit: To make it clear - some of the placements are a bit whacky, because for some stats, there were many with the same numbers he could well be a bit lower or higher.
Edit2: I just noticed that even my parallel to Shaw is reflected in the stats, seems like key passes is something that I just don't see or value.
 
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Rocksy

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What’s happening with his contract? He’s in the last year, isn’t he? Is he on a + 1 after this one?
 

stevoc

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A 1 rating would be if I went out there at the much rustier end of the 37 years spectrum, and kept losing the ball easily and passed out after 25 minutes.

All PL players tend to play to at least a 6 baseline. It's quite rare that a PL player gives a 3 or 4 performance. That's why they're highly paid professional footballers.
Depends how you rate players performances. You are rating them from 1 to 10 in the context of how professional top level players should perform, you are not rating them in comparison to a middle aged bloke down the weekly five-a-side with his mates.

For me a decent performance is a 5, 6 good, 7 very good, 8 great, 9 brilliant. Conversely 4 poor, 3 awful, 2 atrocious and 1 Darmian.

And I've seen very few 8 or 9 performances but plenty of 2, 3 and 4 performances from United players over the last 9 seasons. Too fecking many in fact.
 

Ali Dia

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He’s been very solid and I think he can easily go up a few more gears. He's always had massive potential and was supposedly the best young RB prospect in Europe that season we got him. The loan in Milan was the making of him. I wouldn’t be against us signing someone more devastating in attacking areas but I’ve always stood up for Dalot and I’m really pleased to see him keep improving along with expectations rising at the club.
 

criticalanalysis

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2) If you think, Dalot has been as instrumental to our success as Eriksen, then so be it. I'm pretty sure, outside of the fanbase you wouldn't find a lot of people to confirm that but who knows.
I don't think there's been any one that stands out head and shoulders above the rest, as I know it's cliche to say but it has really been a team effort. Everyone who's played well has also had individual very good contributions (on a match to match basis) to the games of late. In that sense it's arguable that Dalot has been as instrumental as Eriksen.

I like what Eriksen has brought to the table and it's obvious we've needed his midfield awareness but he wouldn't be able to do what he can without the resurgence of the whole team with McTominay beside him, Bruno's creativity in front of him and then of course the Martinez/Varane partnership behind him. Dalot has been solid defensively and been very progressive with his passing, ball carrying, switches of play and end product.

Also on the bolded bit, outside of the fanbase, nobody would be really watching 90 mins of Utd game in, game out so it's likely they see Eriksen's progressive passing, in highlights, one-off games and equate him to being a singular, above all improvement and catalyst when it's not really the case as I've explained above.
 

NoPace

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Dalot has been making multiple chances in games and shutting down his wingers like Diaz and Martinelli. Hence the 8s and 9s. If a full back does that then they are playing to the top of the game. He's been as good as Eriksen who also has been performing great.
This is madness. Dalot has been quite good at RB this season but Eriksen has been sensational. Based on his current form, Eriksen would challenge for a spot at any team in the world and you just can't say that about Dalot.
 

Olecurls99

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A lot of what?


Just want to make it clear, I think, that your assessment is totally fine and legit and all. I just don't share it and try to describe the reasons. I just checked fbref for some context:

Compared to all defenders in the league (146), Dalot is on the following places

xG9
xA13
npxG9
npxG + xA9 (R. James, Perisic, Neco Williams, Gabriel, Trippier, Struijk, Mee, Henry, Dalot)
xG per 9015
xA per 9024
xG+xA per 9021

Sofascore

Rating of Dalot 7.07, (19th best defender, from a fast glance 5th best fullback)
Successful dribbles (4, 10th best defender)
Tackles (14, 8th best defender)
Interceptions (9, 24th best)
Errors led to shots (1, 3rd "best", 1st place also 1)
Dribbled past (5, 10th)

Assists (1, 10th best defender)
Big chances created (1, 14th)
Key passes (10, 3rd)
Passes to assist (0)
Accurate crosses percentage (45.45, 13th)
Accurate final third passes (61, 13th)
Accurate own half passes (79, 66th)

Ground duels won percentage (52, 83rd)
Aerial duels won (63, 55th)
Total duels won (56, 72nd)
Accurate passes (73.05, 107th best, seems pretty skewed due to number of minutes bigger than many in the Top20)
Shots on target (3, 3rd - shared 1st place)
Yellow cards (3, 4th)
Fouls (9, 3rd "best", 1st is Malacia with 10 fouls)

Its only stats I know and it covers the 1st two games as well, but it is what it is.
Edit: To make it clear - some of the placements are a bit whacky, because for some stats, there were many with the same numbers he could well be a bit lower or higher.
Edit2: I just noticed that even my parallel to Shaw is reflected in the stats, seems like key passes is something that I just don't see or value.
This is madness. Dalot has been quite good at RB this season but Eriksen has been sensational. Based on his current form, Eriksen would challenge for a spot at any team in the world and you just can't say that about Dalot.
https://thepeoplesperson.com/2022/0...-of-transformation-under-erik-ten-hag-252547/

This sums up how well he has performed. 10 chances created sounds about right to me. Time to give credit where it's due lads.
 

Olecurls99

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Depends how you rate players performances. You are rating them from 1 to 10 in the context of how professional top level players should perform, you are not rating them in comparison to a middle aged bloke down the weekly five-a-side with his mates.

For me a decent performance is a 5, 6 good, 7 very good, 8 great, 9 brilliant. Conversely 4 poor, 3 awful, 2 atrocious and 1 Darmian.

And I've seen very few 8 or 9 performances but plenty of 2, 3 and 4 performances from United players over the last 9 seasons. Too fecking many in fact.
Fair enough it does make sense that professional footballers will hover around the 5,6 7 mark. They wouldn't last if they were hitting 4 and below every week and only Messi can get consistent 10s.
 

NZT-One

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https://thepeoplesperson.com/2022/0...-of-transformation-under-erik-ten-hag-252547/

This sums up how well he has performed. 10 chances created sounds about right to me. Time to give credit where it's due lads.
If he would have created 10 chances, why doesn't it reflect that neither on fbref nor sofascore? 10 seems way too high to me. I am watching all our games, granted attention is fading in the most boring games, but I can't imagine, I missed 10 chances, he created. Or I just don't know, what some are considering a chance.

Such articles are suspicious sometimes. Same goes for stuff from Statman Dave, who will bend the numbers to generate something that sounds like it is worth tweeting. Fbref and Sofascore show, he hasn't been the best defender, nor fullback this year. Both sources do it so even if we doubt some of the methods, they are consistently applied to other players as well and both sources show it.
 

NZT-One

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I like what Eriksen has brought to the table and it's obvious we've needed his midfield awareness but he wouldn't be able to do what he can without the resurgence of the whole team with McTominay beside him, Bruno's creativity in front of him and then of course the Martinez/Varane partnership behind him. Dalot has been solid defensively and been very progressive with his passing, ball carrying, switches of play and end product.
I'd argue with the end product but agree with the rest.

Also on the bolded bit, outside of the fanbase, nobody would be really watching 90 mins of Utd game in, game out so it's likely they see Eriksen's progressive passing, in highlights, one-off games and equate him to being a singular, above all improvement and catalyst when it's not really the case as I've explained above.
That is a good thought and you're certainly right. BUT it does apply to ourselves as well, that means we are also mostly seeing the highlights of TAA, Robertson, Cancelo, Davies or whoever and they, occasionally, manage to get the highlights in games. So on top of all the unseen good things they do, just like Dalot is doing, they do standout things. And I am happy to praise our player once he reaches this level. He might be able to but he isn't there yet.
 
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After he got destroyed by Danjuma this time last season vs Villarreal, I fully wrote him off. Fair play to him, he’s been exceptional this season.
 

Olecurls99

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If he would have created 10 chances, why doesn't it reflect that neither on fbref nor sofascore? 10 seems way too high to me. I am watching all our games, granted attention is fading in the most boring games, but I can't imagine, I missed 10 chances, he created. Or I just don't know, what some are considering a chance.

Such articles are suspicious sometimes. Same goes for stuff from Statman Dave, who will bend the numbers to generate something that sounds like it is worth tweeting. Fbref and Sofascore show, he hasn't been the best defender, nor fullback this year. Both sources do it so even if we doubt some of the methods, they are consistently applied to other players as well and both sources show it.
Fbref doesn't talk about chances created and those fbref stats are over the past 365 days so they're not reflecting this season's performances properly.
 

stevoc

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Fair enough it does make sense that professional footballers will hover around the 5,6 7 mark. They wouldn't last if they were hitting 4 and below every week and only Messi can get consistent 10s.
Yes but context matters though, when you say professional footballers will hover around the 5,6, 7 mark is a 7 performance in League 2 equal to a 7 performance in the Premier League?

No of course not, so while rating Premier League performances there will be plenty of 2, 3 and 4 performances in many teams, more so around the bottom of the league. Almost every team will have poor performers almost every game.
 

bosnian_red

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If he would have created 10 chances, why doesn't it reflect that neither on fbref nor sofascore? 10 seems way too high to me. I am watching all our games, granted attention is fading in the most boring games, but I can't imagine, I missed 10 chances, he created. Or I just don't know, what some are considering a chance.

Such articles are suspicious sometimes. Same goes for stuff from Statman Dave, who will bend the numbers to generate something that sounds like it is worth tweeting. Fbref and Sofascore show, he hasn't been the best defender, nor fullback this year. Both sources do it so even if we doubt some of the methods, they are consistently applied to other players as well and both sources show it.
It's too early in the year to use fbref (just look at how Eriksen and lisandro Martinez look, not a chance those numbers are accurate/they're being heavily influenced by random substitute appearances I'd bet. Never really use sofascore so can't say for that one. Whoscored has all the raw data and they have Dalot at 10 key passes for the season/1.7 per game just in the league.
 

WirralRed

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I’ve been happy with him after the first 2 games, he could still do with working on his crossing, he gets in some great positions but then his crossing is very hit and miss.
 

criticalanalysis

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If he would have created 10 chances, why doesn't it reflect that neither on fbref nor sofascore? 10 seems way too high to me. I am watching all our games, granted attention is fading in the most boring games, but I can't imagine, I missed 10 chances, he created. Or I just don't know, what some are considering a chance.

Such articles are suspicious sometimes. Same goes for stuff from Statman Dave, who will bend the numbers to generate something that sounds like it is worth tweeting. Fbref and Sofascore show, he hasn't been the best defender, nor fullback this year. Both sources do it so even if we doubt some of the methods, they are consistently applied to other players as well and both sources show it.
I'd argue with the end product but agree with the rest.

That is a good thought and you're certainly right. BUT it does apply to ourselves as well, that means we are also mostly seeing the highlights of TAA, Robertson, Cancelo, Davies or whoever and they, occasionally, manage to get the highlights in games. So on top of all the unseen good things they do, just like Dalot is doing, they do standout things. And I am happy to praise our player once he reaches this level. He might be able to but he isn't there yet.
The video titles are misleading because they've definitely included last or previous season's footage (I see Cavani and Pogba in one or two of them :smirk:) but you should be able to notice the kits from this season:




I've only briefly looked at them as they were the first searches but it looks like he has definitely created at least 5+ direct chances that lead to a shot/header on goal etc this season.

My own assessment of Dalot (and most of our team post Brentford) is that he has been good, done some very good things and I'm satisfied with his performances thus far but always hoping for more because at the end of the day, it is still only 4-5 games. He's nowhere near the productivity of those other full backs you've mentioned but then if that is the bar in terms of rating a player's performance it's too out of context for me to entertain in a discussion. Whilst it may be ultimately true in terms of where we should be comparing to, it's always bit of a failing argument imo because we're just not there as a team, so no player deserves to be rated 'well' if that's the case. Like I said before, Eriksen has been playing really well but he cannot perform the way he can without his team mates and it's not like he's been dragging us to this good form alone; he's an important cog in the whole system but still a cog.
 

Olecurls99

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Yes but context matters though, when you say professional footballers will hover around the 5,6, 7 mark is a 7 performance in League 2 equal to a 7 performance in the Premier League?

No of course not, so while rating Premier League performances there will be plenty of 2, 3 and 4 performances in many teams, more so around the bottom of the league. Almost every team will have poor performers almost every game.
Yeah I agree of course. 7 in pl is much better than a championship 7.

I think it's fine margins that separate teams in the pl and I don't remember any 2,3 or 4 performances from Southampton and Leicester. We were just marginally better imo. Like I said players usually hover around the 6 mark.
 
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Olecurls99

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The video titles are misleading because they've definitely included last or previous season's footage (I see Cavani and Pogba in one or two of them :smirk:) but you should be able to notice the kits from this season:




I've only briefly looked at them as they were the first searches but it looks like he has definitely created at least 5+ direct chances that lead to a shot/header on goal etc this season.

My own assessment of Dalot (and most of our team post Brentford) is that he has been good, done some very good things and I'm satisfied with his performances thus far but always hoping for more because at the end of the day, it is still only 4-5 games. He's nowhere near the productivity of those other full backs you've mentioned but then if that is the bar in terms of rating a player's performance it's too out of context for me to entertain in a discussion. Whilst it may be ultimately true in terms of where we should be comparing to, it's always bit of a failing argument imo because we're just not there as a team, so no player deserves to be rated 'well' if that's the case. Like I said before, Eriksen has been playing really well but he cannot perform the way he can without his team mates and it's not like he's been dragging us to this good form alone; he's an important cog in the whole system but still a cog.
That was definitely a handball by the Southampton rb for the Bruno headed chance. Just overlooked by sky:mad:

I watched the YouTube 3 minute highlights and counted 6 chances he created and they are very brief.
 
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stevoc

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Yeah I agree of course. 7 in pl is much better than a championship 7.

I think it's fine margins that separate teams in the pl and I don't remember any 2,3 or 4 performances from Southampton and Leicester. We were just marginally better imo. Like I said players usually hover around the 6 mark.
Well it's all subjective I suppose but I see performances most weeks that I would rate below 5 and that's just at United. On the odd occasion I watch a game between lower sides in the table I see more.
 

OrcaFat

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Well it's all subjective I suppose but I see performances most weeks that I would rate below 5 and that's just at United. On the odd occasion I watch a game between lower sides in the table I see more.
Like I posted earlier, a lot of people use mainly 5, 6 and 7, barely using the other numbers except for utter genius or utter dross. I’m with you, if it’s a poor performance let’s give it 2, 3 or 4. 1 for a nightmare (with an own goal and a sending off, say); if there’s a real stand out performance that’s 9, why not? 10 is for hat tricks or a game of the season performance.
 

We need an rvn

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After he got destroyed by Danjuma this time last season vs Villarreal, I fully wrote him off. Fair play to him, he’s been exceptional this season.
Amazing what a good manager who has a clear plan in mind and the coaching team to back him up, with the player who does have the ability and attitude to improve, can do.

I think he came to us a bit too young and we've had manager after manager (and not the best ones at that in the last two). But well done to him too for sticking it out and wanting to stay with us despite his loans etc.
 

NZT-One

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Fbref doesn't talk about chances created and those fbref stats are over the past 365 days so they're not reflecting this season's performances properly.
You are talking about fbref player scouting report but that isn't what I have looked at. They have the stats for the games of this season as well and when you look at the player stats, the numbers I posted are the result.

It's too early in the year to use fbref (just look at how Eriksen and lisandro Martinez look, not a chance those numbers are accurate/they're being heavily influenced by random substitute appearances I'd bet. Never really use sofascore so can't say for that one. Whoscored has all the raw data and they have Dalot at 10 key passes for the season/1.7 per game just in the league.
Again, I am not using the player scout report on fbref but the players stats for the whole league. Regarding Whoscored - I think I posted the number of key passes as well, not going to argue that this number isn't there. But a key pass doesn't seem to be a chance created. And I can't accept that Dalot performances were sooo much better than I observed them just based on one particular stat, while any other stats indicate that he has a good season but other players deliver the same.

The video titles are misleading because they've definitely included last or previous season's footage (I see Cavani and Pogba in one or two of them :smirk:) but you should be able to notice the kits from this season:




I've only briefly looked at them as they were the first searches but it looks like he has definitely created at least 5+ direct chances that lead to a shot/header on goal etc this season.

My own assessment of Dalot (and most of our team post Brentford) is that he has been good, done some very good things and I'm satisfied with his performances thus far but always hoping for more because at the end of the day, it is still only 4-5 games. He's nowhere near the productivity of those other full backs you've mentioned but then if that is the bar in terms of rating a player's performance it's too out of context for me to entertain in a discussion. Whilst it may be ultimately true in terms of where we should be comparing to, it's always bit of a failing argument imo because we're just not there as a team, so no player deserves to be rated 'well' if that's the case. Like I said before, Eriksen has been playing really well but he cannot perform the way he can without his team mates and it's not like he's been dragging us to this good form alone; he's an important cog in the whole system but still a cog.
I think, I understand what you mean, but for me, the team form context isn't a factor. I'd agree, that for example Liverpools fullbacks looked great in terms of chance creation over the years mostly, because Klopp used them as the main chance creation tools. So yes, certain team setups help players to shine more in specific aspects but team setup isn't team form. If we consider that, you will never be able to compare players whatsoever. And while admitting that some stats may be more affected by it than others, to make it a general take doesn't seem right to me.
If we look at player A at in form ManCity, a passing heavy team, who is attempting 150 passes and is successful with 140 then why wouldn't that be comparable to a team like us for example with player B who is attempting only 100 and succeds with 75. Or a player who is attempting 10 tackles a game but only wins 2 with a player who attempts only 3 and wins all of them. As I said, team setup will influence stuff like that, but form shouldn't. That being said such player comparisons will always be faulty of course and there is no perfect way to do it.

I will have a look at the videos now.

Oh and yes: I agree with your assessment of him having a good season so far, playing his best football for us since ever and looking promising. Would never have argued with that from the start. I only argue with people picturing him as great or exceptional. Which might be true compared to himself but not compared to rival players.
 
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