Do we really need to sign Jadon Sancho to beat Palace?

[starman]

Balance in midfield and not a weak CB.

I think this one was more on Ole, as we have the players in the squad to have produced a better performance. That's not to say we don't need more signings

He needs to stop shoeing in Bruno and Pogba in midfield, its unbalanced. Fred and MCT behind either of the two is a better midfield.
Lindelof is terrible, he needs to be dropped, we have 3 other CBs that we could have played that offer basic physicality.

 

[Untd55]

We should be beating Crystal Palace, no question about it. But, the 'title-winning form' was unsustainable. It was also influenced by the drop off of Liverpool and City when the title race was decided so early.

People will point to the points total in the closing phase of the season, but there were issues that progressively became worse throughout the ending phase of the season.

Defence's susceptibility to fast players, and just generally not being much better than average, particularly the centre-backs.

Fernandes's unsustainable form, and the over reliance we have on him to produce. His performances ended up dropping off.

Rashford's massive drop off in form, which has been going on for about 8 months now.

There are also major question marks over whether some players can replicate last season's form. Martial, Greenwood, Fernandes etc.

Too many average to poor players: McTominay, James, Lingard, Pereira.

These issues started showing themselves towards the end of last season and were always going to show up again this season. It doesn't help with Solskjaer's terrible selection either; he started us on the backfoot with his selection of James and McTominay over Greenwood and Fred.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Of course you are. I'd be defending Mourinho if Tottenham came close to sacking him because we don't need another top 4 rival.

Man have a grown up conversation. All u did there was attack me on who I support and gave no rebuttal to the argument. Lazy.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

we were not match fit. That's it.

/thread

Match fitness means you cannot pass a ball five yards? Wow.

 

[Rightnr]

Man have a grown up conversation.

Although my comment might be tongue-in-cheek, the spirit of it is true. Your comment makes 0 sense because not only were we owned tactically, we created diddly squat and got beat by Palace at home for a second year in a row.

 

[jasT1981]

Sancho on his own? No, that was never the problem.

The issue, once again is we got top 4 and the top brass seem to think that is enough. Ole gave them the 4 positions that needed addressed and a list of players he wanted when the season was ending and so far, aside from DVB we've done absolutely nothing. We agree personal terms and nothing comes of it.

We've sat around when everyone else improved. We finished 33 points behind Liverpool last season and scrapped top 4 on the last day. Going by what we have, there is no way we are getting close to the top this season. We got 66 points last season and got 3rd. That is a fluke as most seasons 66 points would be 5th, 6th or 7th. There is no ambition to catch City or Liverpool.

Ambition is the issue, and what is needed. There is none at the top if we get Champions League as proven every time we qualify post SAF. And the players are just running on fumes with no depth to the squad.

A massive wake up call is needed. Sadly, I don't think losing 3-1 to Palace will do anything, even with Woodward there to see. He was there a lot last season and saw the same shower of rubbish and it didn't alert him then. why would it now?

Sadly it will end the same way as every other manager. Bad start to the season after not strengthening, and the manager fired. And the thinking will be this one will make it work.

Until it doesn't once again and the cycle repeats.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Match fitness means you cannot pass a ball five yards? Wow.

You don't play the game do you..

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Although my comment might be tongue-in-cheek, the spirit of it is true. Your comment makes 0 sense because not only were we owned tactically, we created diddly squat and got beat by Palace at home for a second year in a row.

You weren't owned tactically, CP did nothing much and profited on your own mistakes... that's not tactics.

 

[Feed Me]

we were not match fit. That's it.

/thread

Why didn’t we play one or two more pre season games?

 

[norm87cro]

A good thread and the answer is no. Sancho is the kind of signing to bring us on another level when we are fighting for the league against City or Liverpool or in the semis of the CL. We are miles and miles away from both. And he isn't a priority judging on today.

 

[Ekeke]

Well he would have the pace our CBs lack

 

[JPRouve]

You weren't owned tactically, CP did nothing much and profited on your own mistakes... that's not tactics.

If United is genuinely levelled with Crystal Palace then United is doing something wrong on the pitch.

 

[Rightnr]

You weren't owned tactically, CP did nothing much and profited on your own mistakes... that's not tactics.

It is though. Palace play on the break and we conceded goals on the counter. That's literally the way they always play.

The fact we put players who can't pass and keep the ball (McTominay) or at least recover quickly (Fred, for example) and that our CBs are slower than elephants, with our best tackler on the bench is all to do with tactics.

The fact we couldn't find a solution to break down their defence is also to do with tactics. Why is it taking till we're 0-2 down to bring on our only new signing?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

You don't play the game do you..

No I don't play FIFA, I play the actual game.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Crystal Palace didn't need Sancho to beat us.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

If United is genuinely levelled with Crystal Palace then United is doing something wrong on the pitch.

Man, if sport in general was levelled on ability/squad/club we would have no bookies.

 

[mu4c_20le]

No I don't play FIFA, I play the actual game.

Ok Chunkz.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

It is though. Palace play on the break and we conceded goals on the counter. That's literally the way they always play.

The fact we put players who can't pass and keep the ball (McTominay) or at least recover quickly (Fred, for example) and that our CBs are slower than elephants, with our best tackler on the bench is all to do with tactics.

The fact we couldn't find a solution to break down their defence is also to do with tactics. Why is it taking till we're 0-2 down to bring on our only new signing?

You will find very few subs after 1 goal down, I'm not saying you were spectacular today, but you were not out played.

 

[Mickeza]

Imagine if we were going into the season having signed Sancho and Upemecano along with Donny. The positivity around the club would have been great. Instead everything is chaos. We’re coming off the back of finishing 3rd, unbeaten in the league in 14 yet we seemingly entered the game in crisis again. The players don’t live in a bubble, they know what the fans are banging on about and that negativity must have an impact. Momentum is everything in football. We just never seem to build any - there’s so much conflict all the time. It’s like watching a soap opera.

 

[JPRouve]

Man, if sport in general was levelled on ability/squad/club we would have no bookies.

What is your point? You think that performances are the fruit of randomness?

 

[Leftback99]

Palace started their pre season training the day after we played Sevilla. This was their 7th game since including friendlies. If you don't think that makes a difference you don't know football at the highest level.

 

[VidaRed]

Great comment and spot on.

Expecting professional footballers on millions a year to be fit for the start of the season i.e. their fecking job is completely unrealistic.

This. How many of us can screw up our jobs then expect to be let off when we say we were a bit tired or not upto it today.

 

[united for life]

I am going to cut to the chase here, last season we finished in title winning form and this season we start with one of the worst performances many have seen since last year. Are we seriously saying that a side with Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Wan-Bissaka, Rashford, Maguire, De Gea and Van De Beek cannot beat Crystal Palace unless we buy Jadon Sancho a centre back and a left-sided full back? A total p*** take.

Sancho won't save us. Messi won't even save us. This is first second an last about management capability. It doesn't matter how many resources you have, if you do not know how to use them, they will never be enough.

Not sure what you mean "you do not know how to use them". What should the manager have done differently today? Start AWB and Greenwood? I'd like to think we can have 2 squad players in against a team like Palace and win. The team seemed not match fit, no proper urgency on the pitch. Our CBs are not good enough unfortunately. Lindelof isn't up to the standard to start week in week out. Too shaky!

 

[TheGame]

Of course we dont in response to the question, the two are not related. But he would be a great signing for our long term goals.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

We shouldn’t need Sancho to beat palace but it doesn’t mean that getting Sancho would be a mistake. Ideally, we should sign players who would fit the plans of the next United manager, too. Now we can’t guarantee that the next manager will want him, that’s why a DOF would be essantial to make these kind of signings. So Ole may not be good enough but we still need Sancho.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Love the excuses people are making defending the players and manager.

Lack of fitness?
Then prepare more, one pre-season game is not enough? then make it two or three so maybe it'll be equivalent to one real game to gain this "match fitness".

Looking at our players playing today, they are actually fit.

Lacking "match sharpness"?
Play more pre-season games. How come Crystal immediately get total match sharpness just from one game last week then?

A top team lacking fitness should still be enough to beat a team like CP... or at least not being dominated (sort-of).

Ridiculous.

 

[JPRouve]

This. How many of us can screw up our jobs then expect to let off when we say we were a bit tired or not upto it today.

That's the staffs job though, the coaches and physical trainers. Players aren't supposed to do it individually due to when managers decide that they want their team to be at its athletic peak.

 

[mu4c_20le]

This. How many of us can screw up our jobs then expect to be let off when we say we were a bit tired or not upto it today.

How many of us are elite athletes and 1% of the population?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

What is your point? You think that performances are the fruit of randomness?

Its one game of a new season so yes, if after 3 games you are still making the same mistakes then worry. Look at Liverpool last week, VDV makes a howler, im pretty sure you wont see that again in the next 10 games.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't get how anyone can watch the game and think Palace didn't outplay us.

Possession is pointless if you do nothing with it.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

I am going to cut to the chase here, last season we finished in title winning form and this season we start with one of the worst performances many have seen since last year. Are we seriously saying that a side with Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Wan-Bissaka, Rashford, Maguire, De Gea and Van De Beek cannot beat Crystal Palace unless we buy Jadon Sancho a centre back and a left-sided full back? A total p*** take.

Sancho won't save us. Messi won't even save us. This is first second an last about management capability. It doesn't matter how many resources you have, if you do not know how to use them, they will never be enough.

No, of course not, but the lack of signings significantly impacts the mood of the club. Same think happened w Jose’s last year. The club feels defeated before the season even begins knowing that other clubs have made big additions to their rosters while United picked its dick.

 

[Santoryo]

Meh, first game back with no pre season and lot of players lacking sharpness and concentration so far(Pogba) while Palace are already in the groove which explain their concentration level and sharpness being higher than ours. I'm confident we'll bounce back in the next few games and go from there.

I'm willing to forgive this game and put it down to circumstances against us.

 

[kitress]

It is though. Palace play on the break and we conceded goals on the counter. That's literally the way they always play.

The fact we put players who can't pass and keep the ball (McTominay) or at least recover quickly (Fred, for example) and that our CBs are slower than elephants, with our best tackler on the bench is all to do with tactics.

The fact we couldn't find a solution to break down their defence is also to do with tactics. Why is it taking till we're 0-2 down to bring on our only new signing?

Exactly. He's been here for almost two seasons and never found a solution to break down deep defending teams. The other teams know how to play his United team. On the other hand, Ole's at the wheel: hey guys, I know our usual 4231 tactic is not working with this kind of teams, but let's just try it one more time, but this time we do it with a wank right side. Everybody gasped at the lineup, that right side was wank. But to his supporters, that was just a genius tactic to send a message to the board. Lunacy.

 

[JPRouve]

Its one game of a new season so yes, if after 3 games you are still making the same mistakes then worry. Look at Liverpool last week, VDV makes a howler, im pretty sure you wont see that again in the next 10 games.

I don't care about what I will see in 10 games, I'm judging this game. United weren't ready physically and tactically, there is nothing wrong with stating that and it has nothing to do with future games, the team will most likely be in a different state next time.

 

[Acquire Me]

We need match fitness.

 

[VidaRed]

How many of us are elite athletes and 1% of the population?

All the more reason to be fecking fit.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Of course not. Ole's not good enough either. But we've been crying out for a good rightwinger for years

This. It's not why we lost, but it's still been neglected for way, way too long.

Who was the last right winger we actually bought? James played primarily as a left winger at Swansea before we bought him so it's not him even though we try to play him there. He looks so ineffective on the right compared to the left.

Zaha? He plays on the left or up front for Palace these days but I don't know where he played in the season before we got him, not that he counts because he barely got a chance here anyway.

Memphis, Di Maria, Sanchez, Young all more comfortable on the left and/or central (though Di Maria was good on the right for RM but we never seemed to play him there). Was it really Antonio Valencia in 2009?! From 14/15 he was a RB, and since then we've played #10s and strikers out there. It's just shocking planning and management.

 

[Irrational.]

Unpopular opinion time:

We could sign Sancho, Haaland, Upamecano and Mbappe but until we have a proven manager at the helm we cannot expect consistent results. Look at the two that finished ahead of us last season:

Klopp - Proven with Dortmund - won the league ahead of Bayern.
Pep - Doesn't need me to prove his credentials.
Ole - Relegated Cardiff and got this job because of a handball.

The line-up today was shocking, and so were the tactics. He has no footballing identity, nor a defining style of play. He seems to just pick players and tell them to enjoy themselves. I have no faith in him yet a lot of people will back him to the end and will blame Woodward, the Glazers and the players before they point a finger at him. He should've been left as caretaker manager. We get dross like this, he comes close to the sack and then he's saved by a random run of results - this has happened on at least two occasions.

 

[BlueHaze]

And to just shut down @sammsky1 bs comment about fitness people said the exact same thing when Ole took over after Jose and we had a disastrous run to end the season.

"He just needs a pre season and everything will be fine"

Well he got one and the following season we had a disastrous run of form and results until January when Bruno came in and things started to turn around so please people spare us from this bs excuse that it has feck all to do with fitness.

 

[bosnian_red]

Sometimes its not the player but the signal to what we have that the club is serious and wants to improve. The worst thing a club can do after a decent season is do nothing in the summer. It sends a terrible signal to what is there already, that they don't care about improving, pushing on, complacency sets in, no push for the players to improve or motivation.

Its not Sancho or no Sancho. Its just that it was painfully obvious that we needed reinforcements to the squad, increase competition for places and quality in depth, and needed improvements to some spots in the starting 11. They haven't come, so a lot of what we have will be demotivated from that.