Does Jesse deserve to start?

Sparky_Hughes

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I think he's earned a start for the Newcastle game, especially if Sancho is carrying a knock.

Realistically he won't get a great deal of minutes in the long run though. He'll be largely limited to the lesser cup competitions.
How?
No he shouldnt, he should not start over Bruno even if Bruno loses a leg. And if Bruno does lose a leg, pogba sancho DvB all deserve to start before he does. And if you mean out wide, he is even worse out there. It takes more than 1/4 of a season of good form on loan to a midtable club and bagging a brace against a national team that are the equivalent of a pub side to earn a spot for Man Utd.
 

Strelok

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This is probably the first thread I've seen the entire caf agree on something :lol:
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Honestly I would be starting Jesse over the likes of Martial on current form. Its proper meme level that people hate him and he will carry that the rest of his career but he seems to be over his mental health struggles and looks pretty sharp right now. Either way I hope we rotate Bruno so we can get the best out of him as he was a shell of a player at times towards the end of last season.
 

RedBanker

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There are some threads which make me want to unlock the cabinet, take the gun, load it and cock it and unload on my brain. This is one such thread. Bravissimo.
 
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While we're talking about irrelevant international football goals, Martial just scored his first in nearly five years!

And it was against a slightly less awful team, so he's probably done more to "earn a start" this weekend than Lingard
 

hmchan

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When he plays well against bigger teams, it's because "there's lots of space". When he plays well against smaller teams, "it's just Andorra". This England team struggled to break Andorra down for 70 mins and Jesse broke the deadlock with his off-the-ball movement, which is exactly what we need at United (especially when James has left).

With our attacking options this year, Jesse will never be our regular starter. But considering McTominay is out (meaning Pogba may have to play in midfield), Rashford is just back from injury, the form of Cristiano and Sancho is in doubt, Jesse deserves a chance to start, at least for this game against Newcastle.
 

A-man

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It was against Andorra. That game tells you nothing at all.



I think there are many options preferable to Lingard, even with Sancho and Rashford injured, in my opinion.

Options beneath are all in case Sancho and Rashford are not available.



1)

Greenwood – Bruno – Pogba

Ronaldo / Cavani

This is without any doubt our strongest attack, and thus should be our starting line up in the league and CHL whenever possible.



2)

Amad – Hannibal – Elanga

Greenwood

This one is for cup games. We should aim to get Amad, Elanga and Hannibal as much time as possible, now that we have not sent them on loan. They are the future. Lingard is not.

The cup games are perfect for that.
Agree. I like Lingard but there are other players who are better, and there are young talented players in development. First category should get most of the important games and second category most of the less important games.
 

Maticmaker

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For me its not a question of whether Jesse 'deserves' to start, its will his inclusion make a difference?

In certain games against particular opposition the answer would be yes, Jesse's running off the ball has for me been one of his best assets, it distracts/disrupts the opposition defending and allows space for others to exploit, but this 'off the ball' activity only worked when Jesse himself is deemed by the opposition to pose a threat if he does break late into the box, or bends his run to keep onside, or finds space between the lines and can receive the ball and finish.

In the last season or two this 'posing' a threat by Jesse diminished considerable (clearly some off the field problems were involved also) and whilst he still made runs, when the ball did arrive at his feet he was less than effective, hence his running off the ball became less of a threat. Jesse's spell at West Ham allowed him to find his 'mojo' again and needless to say raise his 'playing capital' once again. I suspect though that had he stayed at West Ham he would have attracted a lot more attention from the opposition, this season, than he did last.

The guy loves United and wants to stay, but its a 'bit part' generally and only for a specific purposes. IMO Jesse is not blocking anyone's path because he will not have a regular place, as much as anything because the way Ole wants us to play mitigates against some of Jesse's' skill-set, in a team adopting the style of pass and move, then alongside players like Mata, DVB, etc. he would have a better chance.

However we know he is not in the same class as Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood, Cavani, Sancho and of course now CR, so he is not expected to win the game with one piece of personal magic and until Ole changes our style of play to suit his skills set, then the best he can hope for is a run out in selected games, or for the last 20 minutes against a nine man defence who is tiring rapidly.
 

Syphon Wallet

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Makes a case for Lingard to start...
Doesn't bother to check his name.
Something about that is very relatable to Lingards time with United.
 

Dve

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Before I get laughed out of my own Thread - Here are my reasons for Jessie to get a start
His form for West Ham was great, his England form although against weak opposition has also been good. Rashford and Sancho are injured. That leaves Greenwood and Martial has his competition for a starting spot surely he has done more than Tony to get a start especially against a team like Newcastle.
In my opinion, yes.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Before I get laughed out of my own Thread - Here are my reasons for Jessie to get a start
His form for West Ham was great, his England form although against weak opposition has also been good. Rashford and Sancho are injured. That leaves Greenwood and Martial has his competition for a starting spot surely he has done more than Tony to get a start especially against a team like Newcastle.
Jessie who? Jessie J?
 

Inigo Montoya

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Where can you still get tickets?
I gather 1000 are being reserved for school kids and grass roots teams. Maybe he’s going to sneak in as one.
If you see an adult trying to look like a child( think Rodney in Only Fools And Horses) my moneys on him
 

Sweet Square

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It's the return of Ronaldo ffs! Do you really want Jesse's typical display for us to ruin that? :smirk:

Imagine an expectant Old Trafford watching Jesse hide between the lines, floating around like a fag paper in the wind achieving nothing, barely touching the ball for 25 minutes at a time, whilst Ronaldo is throwing his hands up in the air every time Pogba pings a long one forward from deep (with Scott injured he's playing deep in this game.) If he plays I bet you a hypothetical internet fiver that's what we see.

I like Jesse, I just don't like him in a United shirt.
To be fair it's been a long time since Jesse played shite. I mean he in put a good performance for England yesterday and his loan spell at West Ham was impressive. In terms of form he is in a decent patch(Plus if Ole picks him then it must mean he is showing something in training). Also who would start over him ? James is gone, Martial has been terrible, Sancho is injured and looking more likely he will need to be slowly put into the first team. Not saying you're going to be wrong as it's very possible he could stink Old Trafford out next Saturday but it's not unimaginable to also see him getting the opening goal.

We need to go full strength this game, get Ronnie off the mark, remove any pressure there may be (not that he feels pressure.) Not to mention we need a decent performance after the last two games which were awful, get the show back on the road and some momentum going.
Honestly I think the Newcastle game is going to be a really odd one. I can see United going the with reveal thing with Fergie handing Ronaldo the 7 shirt, then Ole only bringing him on later as a sub.

Agree with that both the Southampton and Wolves games were piss poor although the table doesn't say so, Wolves are at least are a far better team than Newcastle.
 

AltiUn

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I think he's earned a start for the Newcastle game, especially if Sancho is carrying a knock.

Realistically he won't get a great deal of minutes in the long run though. He'll be largely limited to the lesser cup competitions.
I don’t think he has. He’s not getting in ahead of Fernandes or Ronaldo, Pogba or even Greenwood, 3 of whom have already contributed to quite a few goals this season already.
 

el3mel

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Obviously not ahead of Sancho, are you joking ? If Sancho is benched then it'll be anyone of Pogba or Rashford on the left. Hell, I'll even take Martial on the left ahead of Lingard, and on the right it's Greenwood or Rashford as well.

Lingard is an option, and we'll have to use him as long as he's here. However he shouldn't be anything more than a squad option. He shouldn't be a main option unless we have an injury crisis or in early cup games.

Anyway, I have a feeling that we'll ultimately get rid of him in Jan. I think he'll ask to leave and we'll see in winter market. He's just staying for now.
 

Smores

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Some people never learn do they. The recency bias is strong.
 

::sonny::

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Ole is very rigid in changing line up, often he prefers to play with no completely fit players instead of giving chances to others (van de beek)
 

Mihai

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I am glad Jesse has rediscovered some form recently. However, I don't think he deserve to start simply because there're players in better form than him atm.
 

Tom Cato

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I guess we're pretty well off on top when a thread about a guy who just scored 2 and assisted 1 goal for England starting a match for the club gets laughed at.
 

CM

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How?
No he shouldnt, he should not start over Bruno even if Bruno loses a leg. And if Bruno does lose a leg, pogba sancho DvB all deserve to start before he does. And if you mean out wide, he is even worse out there. It takes more than 1/4 of a season of good form on loan to a midtable club and bagging a brace against a national team that are the equivalent of a pub side to earn a spot for Man Utd.
Who said anything about starting over Bruno? Of course he can do well from the left, he had plenty of good performances from there for West Ham.

It's Newcastle by the way, among the worst teams in the division. He's a player high on confidence, there's no problem with keeping that momentum going.

I don’t think he has. He’s not getting in ahead of Fernandes or Ronaldo, Pogba or even Greenwood, 3 of whom have already contributed to quite a few goals this season already.
Unless you're a fan of Fred and Matic playing together or think van de Beek will get a game (ha), there's a good chance Pogba will drop into the midfield again. In that scenario there's every chance Lingard could start on the left against Newcastle.
 

AltiUn

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Who said anything about starting over Bruno? Of course he can do well from the left, he had plenty of good performances from there for West Ham.

It's Newcastle by the way, among the worst teams in the division. He's a player high on confidence, there's no problem with keeping that momentum going.


Unless you're a fan of Fred and Matic playing together or think van de Beek will get a game (ha), there's a good chance Pogba will drop into the midfield again. In that scenario there's every chance Lingard could start on the left against Newcastle.
In that case you'd fancy Ronaldo to start on the left with Cavani up front.
 

CM

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In that case you'd fancy Ronaldo to start on the left with Cavani up front.
I think it's more unlikely we'll shunt Ronaldo out wide. I wouldn't really want to see that, but let's see.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Who said anything about starting over Bruno? Of course he can do well from the left, he had plenty of good performances from there for West Ham.

It's Newcastle by the way, among the worst teams in the division. He's a player high on confidence, there's no problem with keeping that momentum going.


Unless you're a fan of Fred and Matic playing together or think van de Beek will get a game (ha), there's a good chance Pogba will drop into the midfield again. In that scenario there's every chance Lingard could start on the left against Newcastle.
Playing well for west ham means feck all. He can have minutes in unimportant games and try and stake a claim, league games are too important to give him chance 483 to show he belongs.
 

RUCK4444

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To be fair it's been a long time since Jesse played shite. I mean he in put a good performance for England yesterday and his loan spell at West Ham was impressive. In terms of form he is in a decent patch(Plus if Ole picks him then it must mean he is showing something in training). Also who would start over him ? James is gone, Martial has been terrible, Sancho is injured and looking more likely he will need to be slowly put into the first team. Not saying you're going to be wrong as it's very possible he could stink Old Trafford out next Saturday but it's not unimaginable to also see him getting the opening goal.


Honestly I think the Newcastle game is going to be a really odd one. I can see United going the with reveal thing with Fergie handing Ronaldo the 7 shirt, then Ole only bringing him on later as a sub.

Agree with that both the Southampton and Wolves games were piss poor although the table doesn't say so, Wolves are at least are a far better team than Newcastle.
Yeah listen I do genuinely like Jesse but I don't think he ever really shows up for us in a United shirt, not to the level we need, whether it's a mental thing or what I'm not sure. When was the last decent performance? Wembley final? He doesn't play badly but he just disappears in games for large periods, even when Bruno is playing badly he's involved.

And I assume you mean him starting ahead of Bruno in the no 10? I would be more than willing to let him get some minutes off the left ahead of Martial to be honest.

I do think we need to go full strength in the next couple of league games to gain some momentum, the three points against Southampton were great but the performance was pretty dire, we need to change that quickly and we need to get Ronaldo off to a good start and integrated quickly, I don't think you can do that effectively without playing a full strength team. We need to turn the positive vibes into positive performances. :)
 

Yakuza_devils

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My heart says Lingard shouldn't even be at utd let alone start for us.

However, if Dan James can get 2 starts in PL I think Lingard can get it too. Lingard can play on the right and is actually better player than Dan James.
 

Grylte

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Imagine the DVB thread if Lingard starts ahead of him :lol:
 

CM

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Playing well for west ham means feck all. He can have minutes in unimportant games and try and stake a claim, league games are too important to give him chance 483 to show he belongs.
Okay, but if league games for West Ham mean feck all, and so do England games vs Andorra, my guess is so will other 'unimportant' games.

As I said before, confidence is huge in sport. I don't think that should be underestimated.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Okay, but if league games for West Ham mean feck all, and so do England games vs Andorra, my guess is so will other 'unimportant' games.

As I said before, confidence is huge in sport. I don't think that should be underestimated.
Yes it is, but some players when their confidence is down can still contribute, others fall off a cliff, the later, which includes JL dont belong at the very highest level.
 

DrRodo

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Before I get laughed out of my own Thread - Here are my reasons for Jessie to get a start
His form for West Ham was great, his England form although against weak opposition has also been good. Rashford and Sancho are injured. That leaves Greenwood and Martial has his competition for a starting spot surely he has done more than Tony to get a start especially against a team like Newcastle.
Im sorry op, you tried :lol:
 

Blood Mage

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One good performance against a team of farmers and he deserves a start over the likes of Bruno, Greenwood and Pogba? :houllier:
 

Anustart89

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He was good for West Ham when he was given space to run into and roam freely in. Whenever they faced an opponent that packed the defence, we saw the United Jesse that would hide, come out of hiding to play a 1-2 with the CDM and then run back into hiding. These are the opponents he used to face when he regularly featured for us, and will keep facing if he gets playing time for us. Already this season we’ve faced this type of opponent in 67% of our games and it’s going to be 75% after Saturday’s game.

Big fat nope for me.
 

Green_Red

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I think definitely start him so that supporters can be reminded just how average he is, then we can finally put it to bed.
 

Bebestation

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I don't think he is bad as people make him out to be, I'd have him over some of ex SAF players.

However, his problem is that the position he plays in envolves players that will always be better than him now and the future.

Rashford, Bruno, Sancho, Pogba, Greenwood, Ronaldo etc - he just won't be able to produce more than them.

He was decent when we didn't have players - but we are starting to get them.

I think people should value him whilst he is here though, because just because we want him sold doesn't mean he is going anywhere - might aswell just value what he can give when he can give and if he can give it.