Does who we sign next really matter anymore

[shamans]

This is a forum where plonkers are advocating the sale of Pogba, meanwhile arguing that we should be bringing in more players because the team isn't current players aren't good enough. It beggars belief.

I swear it's almost like people have difference of opinion on here!

 

[Marcky411]

We're 2nd just because of DDG.

Yeah no. And that thing with Liverpool being 10 pts ahead is wrong too.

DDG was brilliant at times but we didn't just stumble upon 2nd.

Correct, other teams around us have done their part too by being so inconsistent.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Who we sign next could matter, but perhaps not in the way we want. You could argue that signing Sanchez has had an adverse effect by other players being left out.

What I really think we need is a set first 11 that plays week in, week out. Constant chopping and changing is doing us no favours, and another big-name addition probably isn't the answer.

 

[GiddyUp]

It's all well and good coaching tactics and formations but when a £90 million player lays a pass that is 10 yards behind the intended target then what do we do? It's not the managers fault that these players consistently fail to do the basics right. Where it is his fault though is that we haven't looked like a team since Mourinho arrived. There is no cohesion or quick transitions because no one is on the same wave length.
My solution would be to get rid of Valencia and Young. Our attack is so slow to non existent on the wing, both are in their 30's and its criminal they are still in the starting 11. Smalling is just not a very good footballer but looks a good last ditch defender. I want to stick up for him a bit here as it's our terrible midfield that invites pressure and shots on goal but he is just not good enough for the level we want to be.
It's so frustrating watching Sanchez shout for his team mates to push up in support while they all retreat back to our own 18 yard line. I feel sorry for Lukaku (should be our next captain imho) having to applaud another inaccurate or overhit pass. Pogba seems to only give a shit about himself and needs to grow the feck up.
We really need a settled 11, players who know their job and where their team mates will be in attack and defense. Everyone not in that 11 needs to play their way back in. Nobody in this squad outside of Lukaku and De Gea have the right to have a nailed on place in the 11 based on this seasons performances. Mourinho wants specialists in positions, his words and yet players are played all over the place. If we can resolve these issues we can definately compete.
I still have confidence in this team and manager. We are doing satisfactory in the league and outside of a trip to city we have a comfortable run in. Nothing but an FA cup final appearance is acceptable at this point and if Mourinho decides to sacrifice the cup to shore up a 2nd/3rd place finish then the club need to ask some serious questions of his ability to manage a club of this size at this point in his career.
This tie was a fecking disgrace. To allow that many chances and not fight back is shameful for the players and coaching staff and they should be embarrassed but when all the frustration dies down we have to accept that this group of players are nowhere near good enough to get to the latter stages of the Champions League. We have the players and we have the manager, they have the support of the club but not the supporters but that can be remedied if they would just pull their head out of their arses and play professional fecking football because at this point I'm seeing more competent players in lower leagues than I am at Manchester United.

 

[Neuron]

It's all well and good coaching tactics and formations but when a £90 million player lays a pass that is 10 yards behind the intended target then what do we do? It's not the managers fault that these players consistently fail to do the basics right.

That's just a false statement. The players do not consistently fail to do the basics right. What I see is players who do the basics very well in fact, however who get frustrated by terrible tactics and a terrible approach by the manager, leading to moments like the one you describe. If these players were so bad, then Mourinho would have shunned them already. He clearly has no problem doing that. It's not the players. Sorry.

On the topic of the thread - I just think that if I were the board and I had to trust Jose with another hefty sum of money in the summer, then I would rather use that hefty sum to pay off his contract and get in someone better for the role.

 

[GiddyUp]

Who we sign next could matter, but perhaps not in the way we want. You could argue that signing Sanchez has had an adverse effect by other players being left out.

What I really think we need is a set first 11 that plays week in, week out. Constant chopping and changing is doing us no favours, and another big-name addition probably isn't the answer.

Disagree with you're first point as Martial/Rashford/Mata are the most inconsistent players in the league. Outside of Rashford's break through month I have never seen these players have three good games in a row. Score two and go ten games without a goal is what we have seen for the last three seasons.
Could not agree more with you're second point. I would play a front formation of Lukaku/Sanchez/Mata/Martial/Pogba constantly depending on injuries, even in training. Get them working as a unit and scoring goals. Rashford has the skill and energy to impact as a sub and turn it on for cup games. We concede so little goals yet score feck all that I'm worried about what Mourinho does be thinking. How many times have we scored 5 goals, won a game in the first half or had a player score a hat trick. Very few. 3 goals in the first half is more beneficial to our squad rotation and confidence then 3 goals in the last 10 minutes. None of this happens because the team is on a leash and is currently operating on a low football IQ in attack and Mourinho will not get any plaudits by managing an expensive Manchester United team like this.

 

[RedCurry]

Yeah, we need to sign the next Pep Guardiola.

 

[GiddyUp]

That's just a false statement. The players do not consistently fail to do the basics right. What I see is players who do the basics very well in fact, however who get frustrated by terrible tactics and a terrible approach by the manager, leading to moments like the one you describe. If these players were so bad, then Mourinho would have shunned them already. He clearly has no problem doing that. It's not the players. Sorry.

On the topic of the thread - I just think that if I were the board and I had to trust Jose with another hefty sum of money in the summer, then I would rather use that hefty sum to pay off his contract and get in someone better for the role.

I've watched enough of this team to see that it's not all about the manager. These players need to take responsibility for their misplaced passes and slow reactions in attack. It's not a false statement pal, it's my observation from watching every second of this team. It's not Mourinhos job to ensure a multi million pound professional footballer passes the ball correctly to a team mate. The manager trains them to keep the shape and be aware of how the match is playing out but it's up to the professional player on the pitch to make that pass or take the risk of a forward pass. Mourinho doesn't send them out to play like individuals in defense, we are fairly solid. But in attack we have a serious issue. The famous non existent United midfield is ever present. Our midfield allow too many attacks on our defense and offer no support to our attack. That's why Smalling looks so good and Sanchez looks shite. I do not absolve Mourinho from responsibility but McTominay looks more assured in this team then Pogba, who's fault is that? Mourinho/McTominay or Pogba's?

 

[Rista]

How can anyone claim "everyone we buy turns to shit, other clubs do it fine" and keep a straight face? No wonder the media don't call City out on their 50 million signings not making the squad. Even Mkhitaryan is now good even though he's been shit for Arsenal. Martial is apparently a god now too. The fickleness has no bounds.

Bringing Sanchez in was the right decision, every manager would have done it, SAF would have done it. He did it the past when the opportunity was too good too pass. I am not going to say he has been great because he hasn't, but what I see is an out of form player desperately trying to make things happen and people yelling "gave the ball away!" at every opportunity. Some people just have zero patience and wouldn't last a day supporting a mid table club.

 

[Neuron]

I've watched enough of this team to see that it's not all about the manager. These players need to take responsibility for their misplaced passes and slow reactions in attack. It's not a false statement pal, it's my observation from watching every second of this team. It's not Mourinhos job to ensure a multi million pound professional footballer passes the ball correctly to a team mate. The manager trains them to keep the shape and be aware of how the match is playing out but it's up to the professional player on the pitch to make that pass or take the risk of a forward pass. Mourinho doesn't send them out to play like individuals in defense, we are fairly solid. But in attack we have a serious issue. The famous non existent United midfield is ever present. Our midfield allow too many attacks on our defense and offer no support to our attack. That's why Smalling looks so good and Sanchez looks shite. I do not absolve Mourinho from responsibility but McTominay looks more assured in this team then Pogba, who's fault is that? Mourinho/McTominay or Pogba's?

I guess you are kinda right there to be fair. I do want Mourinho gone now though, so maybe it's a bit of wishful thinking from my part that if we got in a more suitable (attacking) coach, he'd make the team and all the players better as well. I think we share the same frustration, it's just that I'm picturing Mourinho gone as the first and foremost solution. It might not be though, possibly just me being a bit naive.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Absolutely not.
I remember craving for top signings under SAF, because everything was in place for a top player or two to come and take us to the next level, that is far from being the case now.

City for example, yes they do have a better squad, but it isn’t THAT much better.
Go back to the summer of 2017, very few people thought that Sane or Sterling were better than Rashford and Martial.
Or that De Bruyne is so much better than Pogba.

Their defence was poor.
Yes, we don’t have a David Silva, but there isn’t anyone as good who we could buy.

It is all about cohesion and coaching, we have a good enough squad, a squad that’s more than capable of beating Sevilla for crying out loud.

I’m all for starting to integrate more academy players in the squad next season, instead of buying a couple of players for 50m.

At the end of the day, Jose ia still a very good coach, but he sure as hell isn’t special anymore.

 

[NoLogo]

Our midfield with Herrera not counting looks to be 1,90 meters on average and as agile as the Titanic. It's no surprise we just get walked by when teams with small agile players simply run past them. We truly have build a very expansive Stoke side.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Of course it doesn't matter, we sign top players and you don't see much difference, Jose has signed the right players, he just doesn't know how to make them play good football, it's pointless throwing another £100 million at it this summer if the coaching is not going to change, might as well stick with what we've got.

 

[Adisa]

There's no point signing players if you have no system to play them in especially attacking. The only positive attribute about our play is that, we're usually organised.

 

[LJJT]

I don’t think it matters. We are a massive club, pay massive wages. Wages is the only reason we get all these big ticket players now, no wonder they are shit as soon as they turn up. The younger youth product players have the hunger and desire, most of the others just collect the pay cheque. It can’t be a coincidence 3 decent managers since Fergie have all struggled. That’s my only explanation for how crap we are now any way

 

[MooseTheMooche]

It absolutely makes no difference, if I am being honest. Every player that we signed in our recent history is either out of form after few games for us, or miraculously forgets how to pass/control the ball, and we are talking about incredibly skillful players. Add to that our lack of tactical awareness, absolutely woeful set pieces, and miscommunication between players and this is what we get, ie. hoofball. What's even more worrying is the fact that none of it will change. Next season will be roughly the same, with the difference being the new faces in some areas on the pitch.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

Certainly starting to look that way at the moment.

 

[Zahed]

Not until we change the manager...I'm convinced of it now

 

[KingCantona87]

There is something fundamentally wrong at United. I can't put my finger precisely on what it is exactly, but for several world class players to come, only to turn into utter shite has me worried.

I honestly think it boils down to our transfer policy and also our scouting system. We just seem to buy players for the sake of buying. Someone on the Caf (I forget who) came up with a great analogy once when discussing this in another thread.

If you add a cup of boiling water (Sanchez signing for example) to a large pool of ice cold water (representing the pap excuse of a team we have now) then it won't make any difference.

We need a wholesale revamp of the mentality from top to bottom. I don't think that buying players will achieve that.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Guaranteed we will have another big money, so called world class player come in and flop next season.

The cafe will make so many excuses for that player.

 

[glazed]

But when it works out, it isn't the players but tactical masterclass?

But that is exactly the Jose template. A strategy designed to win at all costs. Players can be creative only AFTER they satisfy the needs of that strategy. Some days it will be attacking, most times it will be defensive. Often it will cynically hammer a particular weakness. Never will it be beautiful. It will win more often than not - but seldom scale the heights. And it won't last that long.

We knew what we we were getting. No point moaning about it now. It'll be over soon enough. Playing ugly AND losing is a gift wrapped way of losing the dressing room.

 

[Giggs86]

But that is exactly the Jose template. A strategy designed to win at all costs. Players can be creative only AFTER they satisfy the needs of that strategy. Some days it will be attacking, most times it will be defensive. Often it will cynically hammer a particular weakness. Never will it be beautiful. It will win more often than not - but seldom scale the heights. And it won't last that long.

We knew what we we were getting. No point moaning about it now. It'll be over soon enough. Playing ugly AND losing is a gift wrapped way of losing the dressing room.

You sure about that? The board made a huge mistake offering him a new contract before the end of the season. There is no way he would just resign or that Ed would sack him few months after giving him a new contract.

We might as well sign 4 defensive midfielders in the summer because there is no point in signing creative players, Mourinho is not going to change his system.

 

[glazed]

You sure about that? The board made a huge mistake offering him a new contract before the end of the season.

Just means he gets a bigger payout. Although I expect the usual 'fail to qualify for Champion's League' clause that did for Moyes and LVG will be lurking. So sometime in Spring 2019.

 

[fallengt]

Some FBs who can exploit unused spaces maybe. Other than that I can't get excited of whom we're signing anymore.

Prime Barca didn't have perfect either. Keita/Macherano/Valdes/Pedro to name a few, weren't really top tier players in their position. Didn't stop them from dominating EU.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

It´s not about that. We are going with that "we are missing this we are missing that" stuff since 4 years now. "We are missing a proper Ronaldo successor, we are missing a 20+ goals per season striker, we are missing our lost son Pogba, we need to fix our CM ...". We have adressed so many problems the past summers, spending unbelievable amounts of money. There will never be the perfect team, nowhere. Should City complain that they don´t have a DDG?
Our squad is good enough, we need to make sure they play up to their potential.

Admittedly, I misread the premise of the thread and the outlying discussion.

I do now understand the OP and the general narrative - for me we need more Chicharito/Vidic/Evra's and less blockbuster's like Pogba. Still confused how Little Pea ended up leaving the club.

The next window is important. I'd love to see three or four 7-15m signings come into the club in defense/midfield and backup for Lukaku up front. But I do think Woody is in charge and will probably go galactico again. We've got to start building a core unit of leaders with balls. If we can't grow them we at least need to draft them.

 

[SwSw]

We need 1-2 solid CM who isn't flashy and is focused on doing the simple things right. Ideally, one who is aggressive and tenacious defensively. This midfielders should provide the defensive solidity and shield that we need since we are predominantly a defensive side going into big games.

For the right back position. It is ideal that we get a fullback with abundant engine in him to go up and down the flank. Similar to Valencia but with a much much better offensive output, i.e., crosses.

The bulk of the budget should be spent on the above three players. After that, if we are able to nick a left back that doesn't break the bank, great. If not, I think we would be fine.

 

[MadDogg]

I'm hoping we need that one more key midfielder to play next to Matic and actually control us around. I'm hoping that, while by itself won't fix everything, will be the biggest single thing we can do to improve. If we show no indication of trying to get a midfielder to do that, or if we do get one and it doesn't improve anything, then I'll start getting seriously worried.

Fullbacks who also contribute to that general control are next in line for what I'm looking for.

 

[Man of Leisure]

It's the personnel. Our attacking wide players are all either potential / strikers (Rashford / Martial), or just not that good / decent (Mata, Lingard, Sanchez / Mikhi before). A lot of the blame for that lies with Mourinho though. Sign someone like Salah or Mahrez who'd be natural on the right flank and our attacking shape would be so different.

Complete nonsense.

 

[Rake]

Don't think it matters. I just don't see the coached movement that a proper attacking side must have. That is why we struggle so much against teams that don't have an attacking playstyle or are just pure defensive teams. The personnel matters of course but we have seen smaller team play good attacking football because they are drilled properly.

Team cohesion is what we lack, just throwing players in the team will not fix the issue. Even as a defensive unit we are struggling, something which Mou usually gets right. I think 1-2 good signing might somewhat cure our defensive woes but I don't have high hopes for our attacking play.

As a whole, I can't see us getting pass the score one goal and close the game strategy.

 

[Davistiano]

When I dream about my "dream formation" (Let's not talk about if it works in reality):

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------Herrera--------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Rojo------Valencia---
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Let's be honest, this is one of the line-ups that many clubs can only dream of!

And even better in the future:

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------McTominay----------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Tuanzebe-----TFM----
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Who needs new signing? :P

 

[Fer]

When I dream about my "dream formation" (Let's not talk about if it works in reality):

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------Herrera--------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Rojo------Valencia---
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Let's be honest, this is one of the line-ups that many clubs can only dream of!

And even better in the future:

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------McTominay----------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Tuanzebe-----TFM----
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Who needs new signing? :P

Sadly, we can only play with 11.

If we are going to continue with a 4231 formation, I would try what you suggest.

Matic next to McTominay/Herrera sounds balanced to me, mainly because we have Pogba in front of them, plus Alexis has a good work rate.

Martial would rotate with Rashford.

IMO Shaw needs a run of games, I would like to see him starting more often.

 

[Pyro19]

It's starting to turn into a nightmare tenure like LVG's.

Mourinho has sucked the joy out of watching United for me and it doesn't matter whoever we sign in the summer since you can be sure we'll play with Cowardice whenever we come up against a decent opposition even if we have better players. It is and always has been the "Mourinho" way.

Depressing days ahead.

 

[Pexbo]

On paper, the 4-5-2 has absolutely everything.

 

[Roeindo]

Nope until the manager changes his approach.

Compare to other 6 big clubs, actually the gap is almost non existent, the difference is how other manager manages what player he has in his squad.

 

[::sonny::]

We could buy Messi and he'd look like Benteke. Our scattergun transfer strategy is abysmal.

This

 

[Davistiano]

Sadly, we can only play with 11.

If we are going to continue with a 4231 formation, I would try what you suggest.

Matic next to McTominay/Herrera sounds balanced to me, mainly because we have Pogba in front of them, plus Alexis has a good work rate.

Martial would rotate with Rashford.

IMO Shaw needs a run of games, I would like to see him starting more often.

Errrr lol yes stupid me, got too excited about the talent in our club yes I do actually think of Martial and Rashford rotating

 

[trafford1980]

I’m probably in the minority of those who aren’t calling for Mourinho’s head and at the same time don’t want him to be backed to try and spend his way into being an immediate, yet temporary force. I don’t care if he doesn’t sign anyone at all. If he’s “backed” this Summer, we’ll overpay for a Matuidi or a Vidal, replace Luke Shaw with Danny Rose, and add an experienced centre-half like Sokratis to his team. We prob still won’t win the league next year, yet our transfer outlay will almost certainly make us favourites to and we’ll be an easy target for the naysayers. Even if we do the unlikely, and Jose gets the United notch on his premier league winning belt, it won’t be happily ever after… his post-title winning hangovers are never fun. Within 12-18 months, we’ll probably need to replace Matic, Sanchez, Valencia and Young alongside the sprinkling of the above mentioned thirty-something mercenaries that we’ll no doubt add to the first team squad this Summer.

I’d rather he turns to Timbo and Tuanzebe, and perhaps signs up Ryan Sessegnon to compete with Shaw on the left. I have been impressed with his handling of Scott McTominay, but he needs to keep it going. Give Gomes or Chong some minutes at the back-end of this season, he should drop Sanchez and start one against Brighton. Surely they can’t do any worse than Fellaini did mid-week. Jose’s whole career has been built on short-termism, and instant wins. At United he has the chance to change that. When we finally got him in, I really thought that this was the job he’d been waiting for. I envisioned his ego wanted his time at Manchester United to be his legacy, not a footnote.

So I guess my Summer squad refresh would look something like this.

IN: Ryan Sessegnon, Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe, Pereira.

OUT: Fellaini, Herrera, Young, Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Blind.

 

[ice-bionic red]

No. It’s the approach Jose has. Get any players you can think of in, what does it matter when next year in the champions league and “big matches” we have the exact same, boring, negative approach does every time and he WILL NOT change!

I really thought Moyes, LVG and now Jose would adapt to Man Utd. Obviously they bring their own style in but adapt more to the club instead of changing it to their way! Probably sounds a bit silly but ffs why cant Jose just attack more!!!! So frustrated with him

 

[Bestietom]

There are still gaping areas in the team that we need to solve. Far too many average players playing in key positions. We still definitely need:

- a new left back
- a new right back
- a midfielder
- a right winger

Yes this is where we need to strengthen, but the whole team need proper coaching also.

 

[Jia_Ming]

Not really. Sanchez, Pogba, Martial etc. are all flair players but the manager would rather they spend more time in their own half than causing havoc in the opposition box. I think we have enough fire power going forward to win the league; the manager just needs to give a tad more freedom to our attacking players just so they can do what we know they can. It doesn't matter who we sign at this point especially in attacking positions. I'd rather we focus on defensive and midfield signings than attacking ones tbh.


Jose just needs to free our flair players.