[stefan92]

Crazy considering he has an experience in CL semi final.... is he really that bad?

Yes. He got some games during AFCON and didn't impress in them. Now Shkiri and Chaibi are back from that and start again, and their captain Rode is at least fit enough for short subs (his body is really shot, he has massive injury struggles for yeard now. Still is a calming and controlling influence for Frankfurt whenever he is subbed on).
On top they signed two real strikers (Kalajdzic and Ekitike) in the winter, which means that Marmoush (who also was at AFCON) doesn't have to lead the line anymore but can play behind a striker as he actually likes.

So I think in Frankfurt there now should be Chaibi Knauff, Marmoush ahead of him for the double 10 positions they use, also probably Götze if he plays higher up (played a lot CM instead of AM recently, but there they are also well stacked).

AFCON was his chance to really win a place in that team and he just did nothing.

 

[Hughes35]

Somehow never gets mentioned when worst signings ever come up, he's right up near the top for me though.

Such a poor players. I have never seen a single thing from him that suggests he is even average. He's Tom Cleverly but without the movement.

 

[Toshey]

Played 67 minutes against Wolfsburg, did nothing. 30 passes completed, lowest of any player on the pitch.

Curious case of a player, who I think will end up in bulgarian league next year. We've had Obertan here, you know...

 

[Rozay]

I still believe he’s capable of a lot better. He has some qualities where, if he was in the most optimal of environments, he could even look a top player. His appreciation of space is some of the best I’ve seen, his one-touch passing is of a very high standard and he’s a very good finisher. Put him in a rondo type of midfield he can show something, and he has great timing in terms of arriving in the box, and doesn’t arrive there just for the sake of it, he will hit the target.

That said, on the flipside, he has a number of deficiencies to his game and can only perform under very specific conditions. Funnily, I’ve always felt that a team in which plays to his strengths is most likely a top team. He can only possibly look good when the football is almost perfect, despite not being a perfect player himself by a stretch. Most teams are imperfect though, and require more from their midfielders than he offers.

 

[Vidyoyo]

I still believe he’s capable of a lot better. He has some qualities where, if he was in the most optimal of environments, he could even look a top player. His appreciation of space is some of the best I’ve seen, his one-touch passing is of a very high standard and he’s a very good finisher. Put him in a rondo type of midfield he can show something, and he has great timing in terms of arriving in the box, and doesn’t arrive there just for the sake of it, he will hit the target.

That said, on the flipside, he has a number of deficiencies to his game and can only perform under very specific conditions. Funnily, I’ve always felt that a team in which plays to his strengths is most likely a top team. He can only possibly look good when the football is almost perfect, despite not being a perfect player himself by a stretch. Most teams are imperfect though, and require more from their midfielders than he offers.

You like to think so because he wasn't bad at all at Ajax. It's almost as odd as what happened to Schneiderlin who looked great at Southampton and then had his career plummet after joining us.

I wonder if it's psychological because it must be hard for certain players to deal with setbacks and knowing they didn't make it at a top club.

 

[davisjw]

Played 67 minutes against Wolfsburg, did nothing. 30 passes completed, lowest of any player on the pitch.

Curious case of a player, who I think will end up in bulgarian league next year. We've had Obertan here, you know...

I had to look up Obertan as it's been years since I've heard that name and have no idea where he ended up. He's in the US' second division now. Ouch.

 

[RedTiger]

Played 67 minutes against Wolfsburg, did nothing. 30 passes completed, lowest of any player on the pitch.

Curious case of a player, who I think will end up in bulgarian league next year. We've had Obertan here, you know...

What's the typical wage at Levski?

 

[soapythecat]

I wonder how much it will cost to cut him lose this summer? I doubt we would get much more than a few £M for him - at best. Surely the club needs to just accept anything for him and get him off the books as he will never kick a ball for us again. Whether it's the club and silly wages, or the water in Cheshire, but we have fecked up so many players this last few years.

 

[Rozay]

You like to think so because he wasn't bad at all at Ajax. It's almost as odd as what happened to Schneiderlin who looked great at Southampton and then had his career plummet after joining us.

I wonder if it's psychological because it must be hard for certain players to deal with setbacks and knowing they didn't make it at a top club.

Could be a mentality thing, although I do see him as a trier rather than someone who wilts. Ajax is also a huge club and he has performed at the latter stages of the CL for them, scoring big goals too. His confidence may NOW be gone, but at the time he joined, I think he was on a high. He scored on his PL debut remember. I just think we were not a good match for each other at the time and now it’s probably all lost for him.

He should go back to Holland I think.

 

[Toshey]

What's the typical wage at Levski?

They could throw in 20 000 euro per month, he'll get an apartment and also enjoy lots of generous girls in Student City (the bread and butter for footballers in Bulgaria).

It's crazy that a few seasons ago we had lineup of Obertan, Jordi Gomez (who just played the full FA cup final for that Wigan win), the son of Rivaldo (Rivaldinho), all coached by the former Lazio manager.

But I'm not even joking, DVB's level seems like Bulgarian/Greek/Serbian league.

 

[Uniquim]

2020-21	36 games	1468 mins	40.7 per 90	16.3 full games
2021-22	14 games	388 mins	27.7 per 90	4.3 full games
2022-23	10 games	297 mins	29.7 per 90	3.3 full games
2023-24	2 games	23 mins	11.5 per 90	0.25 full game
TOTAL	62 games	2176 mins	35.1 per 90	24.2 full games

Got into a conversation over his playing time with a mate and looked it up. Figured I might as well post it here too.
This is only his playing time for United. Full games just means his minutes divided by 90.
A lot of these were short substitutions so the per 90 stat is a bit misleading.

23 of his games were starts. 15, 4, 4, 0 going season-by-season.
Found 9 games where he played the full 90 minutes. 7 in the first season, 2 in the second.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I saw him play one game for Ajax (in Europe but can’t remember who against) about a year before he joined United and he was brilliant. Sitting in the 10 position and spraying balls around, dictating everything

What has happened

 

[K Stand Knut]

I saw him play one game for Ajax (in Europe but can’t remember who against) about a year before he joined United and he was brilliant. Sitting in the 10 position and spraying balls around, dictating everything

What has happened

United happened

we couldn’t coach anyone to the level he was at.

It’s embarrassing

 

[Red_toad]

United happened

we couldn’t coach anyone to the level he was at.

It’s embarrassing

Why not? Not like he's got Moyes coaching him at United.
I'd say his injuries and self belief are the issues.

 

[marktan]

I saw him play one game for Ajax (in Europe but can’t remember who against) about a year before he joined United and he was brilliant. Sitting in the 10 position and spraying balls around, dictating everything

What has happened

That would be interesting to watch. I can imagine him doing it in the Eeredivisie where the defences are often weak, and Ajax's attack too strong, so it becomes a little bit like men vs boys.

Against good European opposition I'd be more surprised. He doesn't seem to have any actual footballing qualities other than passing to the nearest man 5 metres away and then running into space, and scoring the occasional goal for a team that is attack heavy. Unfortunately it's the goal stats that decieved us, similarly to Sancho. Mata is another player that fits this category for me, a good footballer yes but lacking the specialised quality to play any position particularly well. Mount has more about him but ultimately his own lack of specialisation will see him fit into that same category.

Which is why signing someone like Hojlund is nice, didn't have big stats but has a lot more to his all round game than what you'd glean from just looking at stats or plays against second rate players in poor leagues.

 

[SalfordRed18]

United happened

we couldn’t coach anyone to the level he was at.

It’s embarrassing

Absolute bullshit. 3 managers (1 being a former) never rated him for the team.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Why not? Not like he's got Moyes coaching him at United.
I'd say his injuries and self belief are the issues.

Have you seen our track record recently??

 

[lex talionis]

Donny’s critics are undoubtedly rightly that he’s not a world beating attacking midfielder in the mild of DeBruyne or Gerrard, but he was never given a proper chance at United. Ole wanted Grealish but the club refused to go after him so they brought in Donny, who was never going up bust down Bruno’s door. So he rotted on the bench, and rot he did. Donny was bright in his first few appearances but was wholly unsuited to the chaotic tactics of Ole. And by the time Ralf took the reins the whole squad was in shambles.

 

[LDUred]

The Eredivisie strikes again.

You wouldn't fork out tens of millions on a player who had performed decently in the Championship; but the quality of the Dutch top flight is arguably inferior to our second tier, overall.

 

[The Mitcher]

Donny’s critics are undoubtedly rightly that he’s not a world beating attacking midfielder in the mild of DeBruyne or Gerrard, but he was never given a proper chance at United. Ole wanted Grealish but the club refused to go after him so they brought in Donny, who was never going up bust down Bruno’s door. So he rotted on the bench, and rot he did. Donny was bright in his first few appearances but was wholly unsuited to the chaotic tactics of Ole. And by the time Ralf took the reins the whole squad was in shambles.

He's awful, just accept it.

 

[lex talionis]

He's awful, just accept it.

When Donny came to Old Trafford, he was not awful and in fact was quite decent. That he is awful now is undeniable.

 

[Bobski]

When Donny came to Old Trafford, he was not awful and in fact was quite decent. That he is awful now is undeniable.

I think it was fairly obvious after about 4 games that he didn't have enough. Yes he is nice and tidy in a very basic way but no passing range over 10-15 yards, constantly passed it back to the guy who gave it to him then moved to a position where it was very difficult to get him the ball. Weak athletically and no fire or edge to his game. Decent movement and spatial awareness around the box but entirely reliant on others to create for him.

Sabitzer was a much superior version of him and still didn't have enough, Andreas Perreria was and is much better than him. The early positivity was pretty much based on his Ajax history, a debut goal and new signing gloss, a half at Watford is the only time he showed any signs of being the level Utd needed, oh and maybe a pre season friendly against Everton.

Didn't get a chance is always the claim, but he only had to show himself as a better option than McT and Fred and couldn't do it, was consistently invisible in the mins he did play and even his previous manager quickly realized he was pointless.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Donny’s critics are undoubtedly rightly that he’s not a world beating attacking midfielder in the mild of DeBruyne or Gerrard, but he was never given a proper chance at United. Ole wanted Grealish but the club refused to go after him so they brought in Donny, who was never going up bust down Bruno’s door. So he rotted on the bench, and rot he did. Donny was bright in his first few appearances but was wholly unsuited to the chaotic tactics of Ole. And by the time Ralf took the reins the whole squad was in shambles.

These posts piss me off. If he was any good he'd adapt and force his way into consideration. Even his old manager from Ajax didn't fancy him.

He just isn't good enough

 

[lex talionis]

These posts piss me off. If he was any good he'd adapt and force his way into consideration. Even his old manager from Ajax didn't fancy him.

He just isn't good enough

That's bullshit. The old manager from Ajax gave Antony loads of chances and every chance he was given Antony shat his pants. It's fair enough to argue that Donny or anyone else just isn't good enough, but you can't argue that Donny was ever given a run of starts to prove anything. Maybe he was shit in training, but in competition he was used almost exclusively as a sub by a manager who never wanted him and then when that manager was sacked the interim manager lost the squad after the first half against Palace. With respect to Donny's old manager, whose new co-owner refused to give a vote of confidence and will very likely be sacked at the end fop the season, Donny was already in free fall due to rotting on the bench and was never going to force his way past Bruno.

 

[lex talionis]

I think it was fairly obvious after about 4 games that he didn't have enough. Yes he is nice and tidy in a very basic way but no passing range over 10-15 yards, constantly passed it back to the guy who gave it to him then moved to a position where it was very difficult to get him the ball. Weak athletically and no fire or edge to his game. Decent movement and spatial awareness around the box but entirely reliant on others to create for him.

Sabitzer was a much superior version of him and still didn't have enough, Andreas Perreria was and is much better than him. The early positivity was pretty much based on his Ajax history, a debut goal and new signing gloss, a half at Watford is the only time he showed any signs of being the level Utd needed, oh and maybe a pre season friendly against Everton.

Didn't get a chance is always the claim, but he only had to show himself as a better option than McT and Fred and couldn't do it, was consistently invisible in the mins he did play and even his previous manager quickly realized he was pointless.

This is a more reasoned reply than the previous post, but the point is that Donny in fact had some attributes we could have used if Ole wasn't so stubborn about not getting Grealish. Bruno is the better attacking midfielder, full stop, but the problem with Bruno is that his passing is too chaotic. There is no such as tactics with Bruno. It's all about instinct with him and while it's attractive to watch when he pulls off the perfect Hollywood ball, you can't build an attack around Bruno. On the few occasions Ole did throw Donny onto the pitch, it was in a deeper role to accommodate Bruno and no one will argue here that Donny is a natural deep lying or defensive midfielder. What he does, or I should say did before he was wrecked, was knit passes together in the final third -- the very attribute Bruno is not very good at.

Yes, if the prosecution accuses Donny for not being a proper 6 or 8 then the man is guilty as charged. He was never and will never be a 6 or an 8. His game is all about exploiting pockets of space in and around the opponent's 18 yard box and that's the one aspect of play United are uniquely and comically incompetent at. Our defensive record was fairly sound the last two seasons but the goal dried up. The lack of clinical finishing is mostly responsible for that but right behind in second place is our incompetence against clubs who sit deep against us. Bruno is not built to dismantle parked buses but we play him match after match after match, our win/loss record deteriorating to the point now where we can't even compete against clubs like Fulham, let alone City.

McTominay is no passer of the ball, not even in the same universe as Donny. McTominay is the better finisher, but how he is best deployed as a last resort when chasing the game late in the second half.

 

[McGrathsipan]

That's bullshit. The old manager from Ajax gave Antony loads of chances and every chance he was given Antony shat his pants. It's fair enough to argue that Donny or anyone else just isn't good enough, but you can't argue that Donny was ever given a run of starts to prove anything. Maybe he was shit in training, but in competition he was used almost exclusively as a sub by a manager who never wanted him and then when that manager was sacked the interim manager lost the squad after the first half against Palace. With respect to Donny's old manager, whose new co-owner refused to give a vote of confidence and will very likely be sacked at the end fop the season, Donny was already in free fall due to rotting on the bench and was never going to force his way past Bruno.

If he can't oust Bruno he isn't good enough.

Beek wasn't and isn't a PL player. He got plenty of chances and the fact that Antony got so many games to prove something tells Hag would have given Beek the same chance if he thought or saw something in him that warranted it.

 

[The Irish Connection]

A rule to follow in recruitment, don’t buy players who play in a different position than you intend to play them in. Certainly don’t pay over the odds for them if you do buy them.

 

[Redplane]

A rule to follow in recruitment, don’t buy players who play in a different position than you intend to play them in. Certainly don’t pay over the odds for them if you do buy them.

You make a good point. How often have we not brought in players only to play them outside of their preferred position? Its maddening.

 

[Grande]

A rule to follow in recruitment, don’t buy players who play in a different position than you intend to play them in. Certainly don’t pay over the odds for them if you do buy them.

Yea, it points toward really bad coordintation between recruitment team and manager/head coach. Which Is exactly something we’ve struggled with

 

[TheLittleOne]

Totally forgot about him for the last few weeks/months

 

[lex talionis]

If he can't oust Bruno he isn't good enough.

Beek wasn't and isn't a PL player. He got plenty of chances and the fact that Antony got so many games to prove something tells Hag would have given Beek the same chance if he thought or saw something in him that warranted it.

Bruno has been shit this season yet hasn’t been ousted no matter how poor his play has been. Donny can’t be blamed for that. It is patently false statement to claim Donny has been plenty of chances. The few chances Donny was given were in a role he wasn’t suited for.

 

[48 hours]

Totally forgot about him for the last few weeks/months

So have Frankfurt

 

[DRJosh]

I really feel for him. He clearly wants to get back to his Ajax levels but somehow hasn’t managed to reproduce the same form. I am beginning to think the reasons are beyond football. Perhaps his mental health isn’t great and falling further behind would throw even the most resolute of people into a cycle of self-doubt.

 

[Donut]

I predicted Utrecht as his eventual club, but I think that’s a pipe dream for him. His level is probably Wigan.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Bang average.

 

[Golden Nugget]

United have signed quite a few of these pass and move type of players now, none of them have worked out.

The likes of Kagawa, Mata, Sancho, Mkhitaryan all fall into the bucket for me, and had they all played together, maybe we’d have a different story.

United is the wrong club for them, at least ever since Sir Alex retired, but as mentioned earlier, they’d probably work out better at a club like City or Barcelona.

 

[spiriticon]

At this point just release him on a free and end it.

Christ.

 

[iHicksy]

United happened

we couldn’t coach anyone to the level he was at.

It’s embarrassing

Your post is embarrassing. Who the feck do you think coached him at Ajax? What a terrible take.

 

[stefan92]

Your post is embarrassing. Who the feck do you think coached him at Ajax? What a terrible take.

Not Ole, who did at United before EtH. I think he refers more to what is happening at the club overall than the current manager. There simply have been a lot of disappointments, very few players reached the expected level after moving to United in recent years.

 

[iHicksy]

Not Ole, who did at United before EtH. I think he refers more to what is happening at the club overall than the current manager. There simply have been a lot of disappointments, very few players reached the expected level after moving to United in recent years.

I agree. But you simply cannot blame the coaching. How many different coaching setups have we had? Moyes - LVG - Jose - Ralf - ETH.

There's simply no way that every single coaching setup under those managers has been the issue. It's simple not feasible. We (and i was one of those) blamed Carrick and Mckenna under Ole and Ralf - but look at the incredible work they're now doing with different sets of players.

I think it's the setup at the club and the mentality the setup instils in players, or has done previously and the fact we hang on to a core group who are absolutely worthless but we expect to "one day" come good. We then supplement these with more worthless signings, we again we hold on to (hi VDB) and this has created a really poor culture and attitude in the club which the players take on.

In the past we've sold the club to players based on instragram likes, sponsorship deals and how much money they will make and not the footballing sides, we've then paid mediore players insane wages, which fosters an attitude of apathy (Rashford, Anthony, Maguire, Sancho, martial etc etc) and we keep these players on massive contracts and are unable to shift them. This attitude is rampart throughout the team and it needs a hard reset which appears to be happening now we're getting people in at the top who refuse to run the club in this manner any longer.

So in my opinion, it's not the coaching - because it simply can't be - we've had too many. It's the toxic non football, ego driven attitude that the club fosters within the playing staff.