3 great posts.
To think some people wanted to "leave well enough alone"? Delighted for the families. To some it wont seem like much but to those directly involved it'll mean everything.
e-petition to release the govt Hillsborough files
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
To think some people wanted to "leave well enough alone"? Delighted for the families. To some it wont seem like much but to those directly involved it'll mean everything.
Pretty amazed at the relative lack of press coverage today (especially from the BBC). I don't buy newspapers, so can anyone confirm what the front pages were like? Did the Sun say anything?
The only thing the Sun can ever do in relation to this is stay totally quiet and say nothing.
No apology or admittance will ever be able to undo the damage they caused, and it was their direct interference and blind ignorance that gave credence to those that lied and painted a picture that was so far away from reality that even they cannot seriously have believed what they were saying.
The Sun has attempted in the past to apologise, but its never been a full and frank apology. Not once have they ever exposed those who "leaked" the story that they subsequently printed.
If News International had any decency in them ( which actually we all know, they haven't ) they will stay off this story and maintain a humble and dignified silence.
Once the full story is out, and the truth is told, then the best thing they can do is put a full front page apology admitting unreservedly for what they did and admitting that everything they said at the time was utter lies. Until that time, they should stay out of it. Its the most respectful thing they can do, and the only respectful thing they will have done in this whole sorry saga.
Here here Fred.
Cheers, Steve. I won't click the link and give the bastards more advertising revenue, but thanks for confirming what I suspected they would do. Cretins.
The article is incredible, mate. Reading it, you'd think that The S*n had nothing to do with Hillsborough, and is rejoicing at the prospect of long-withheld justice. I can hardly find the words to describe how I feel about these so-called journalists.
No doubt that wanker Mackenzie will be telling everyone how the government are wrong and that the truth was exposed that day in the Sun.
The cnut honestly stands by everything he wrote, even though it was third hand gossip and came from police officers and reputedly a senior politician who wasnt even at the game.
Not one person has EVER substantiated his claims, and yet the feckwit refuses point blank to admit he got it wrong.
I realise I'm more or less repeating an earlier post here but...do those in the media live in a bubble? How can the likes of the BBC, ITV and the Daily Mail employ MacKenzie when there's such (justified) strength of feeling against him (and not just in Liverpool, I'm certain)? Do these people not know about his reputation, or do they not care? Either way, it's an absolute disgrace.
Just like football fans love contraversial players ( Cantona, Keane etc ) the public love contraversial journalists.
Had Cantona been a model of society he wouldn't be revered the way he is. We loved him because he was a bad boy.. The one that couldn't be controlled.
The press are just the same. They know that when wankers like Mackenzie speaks, there are people reading it, if only to argue back at him.
WIthout wanting to sound offensive to some Liverpool fans, but they have a section on RAWK where they monitor what he's saying and doing, and if he's on TV they report it.
Thats exactly why they employ him. Because they know people will go out of their way to read what he says, even if its to complain about him afterwards.
The day no one reads his articles is the day they will get rid of him, but as shown on RAWK, people are reading his opinions, they do take notice of what he's saying, and for that reason they want him on board.
Not sure I agree with you on all that, mate. I think there's sections of the media - and the entertainment/culture business in general - who assume we're all waiting with bated breath for controversial journalists/broadcasters to speak or write rabble-rousing garbage. Likewise, I'm not sure that Cantona is primarily beloved by United fans because of his rebelliousness - personally, I revere him because of his footballing brilliance; the 'aloof anti-hero' or 'iconoclast' side to his character is almost an afterthought compared to the excellence of his play. But that's just my view, and others may suport your own...
Finally, there's good reason why RAWKites and others 'monitor' MacKenzie's career, as I'm sure you realise. On your other note, perhaps the media organisations employ him because of his experience/'expertise' regarding the press...and yes, perhaps because he's shameless enough to do and say anything. We are, after all, talking about a profession which appears to have lost its soul somewhat, and website hits and newspaper sales apparently trump petty things like truth and morality these days. Even some of the News International journalists exposed by the hacking scandal sometimes act as though their activities are a Waughesque merry jape and not the lawless invasion of privacy and the destruction of lives and reputations. These people care for nothing and no-one, which is why some were so willing to defame the dead and those who mourned them - it sold copy, you see, and that's always the bottom line for them.
Finally, there's good reason why RAWKites and others 'monitor' MacKenzie's career, as I'm sure you realise. On your other note, perhaps the media organisations employ him because of his experience/'expertise' regarding the press...and yes, perhaps because he's shameless enough to do and say anything. We are, after all, talking about a profession which appears to have lost its soul somewhat, and website hits and newspaper sales apparently trump petty things like truth and morality these days. Even some of the News International journalists exposed by the hacking scandal sometimes act as though their activities are a Waughesque merry jape and not the lawless invasion of privacy and the destruction of lives and reputations. These people care for nothing and no-one, which is why some were so willing to defame the dead and those who mourned them - it sold copy, you see, and that's always the bottom line for them.
There is a new e-petition to get the Sun to reveal their 'sources' who told such despicable lies. I'm at work and on my phone, so I can't provide a link, but it is doing the rounds on facebook (and probably twitter). These feckers need to spill the beans.
Petition to force the Sun newspaper to release its Hillsborough "The Truth" sources and documents - e-petitions
Thanks to everyone for all your help & best wishes. Haven't got the time at the minute, but I'm looking forward to posting my thoughts on all this.
Cheers
Mike
That's the one! 6000 have signed already. Cheers, Mike 
Sorted
Notice that there are no comments on the Sun's Hillsborough article.
If something similar happened recently, the Sun's conduct would be involved in the current wiretapping probe because they'd be hacking into phones before the ambulances arrived. It really is a despicable publication.
If something similar happened recently, the Sun's conduct would be involved in the current wiretapping probe because they'd be hacking into phones before the ambulances arrived. It really is a despicable publication.
Signed
signed..
Everyone should get their name down on this one.. The Sun should be accountable for their actions.
Everyone should get their name down on this one.. The Sun should be accountable for their actions.
signed
Stupid Facebook link doesn't work.
Close to 10k signatures now. It's about time they revealed who supplied them with their lies
How is this even supposed to work?
Forcing journalists to reveal sources is a matter for the courts, isn't it? Do they want Parliament to create a specific piece of legislation for this specific case? Politicians forcing newspapers to reveal sources for political reasons is a very dangerous game to play if we value a free press, especially if it isn't in the interest of security. It might not even be legal.
Forcing journalists to reveal sources is a matter for the courts, isn't it? Do they want Parliament to create a specific piece of legislation for this specific case? Politicians forcing newspapers to reveal sources for political reasons is a very dangerous game to play if we value a free press, especially if it isn't in the interest of security. It might not even be legal.
Don't get me wrong, I think The Sun did fabricate what it printed and it would be great to see that slimy feck Mackenzie shown to the nation as a liar and scumbag, but if we are to have the kind of free press we have in this country, I don't think it's possible to force the paper to reveal its 'sources' in this way.
In the words of the immortal Peter Parker, "with great power comes great responsibility" and the press should be made to follow this theory.
Free speech is something they should be entitled to, but not at the expense of them lying and blatantly destroying lives just to sensationalise stories.
If they want free speech then they need to show levels of restraint and conduct that come with it. The moment they choose to overstep the boundaries then they should be brought to account.
No one wants the press silencing, but likewise no one believes they have the right to go printing what the hell they like without recourse when what they print is proven to be downright lies.
I'd say an honest press is as important as a free press.
What is the point if a press is free to write whatever lies it wants in the knowledge it never has to be questioned?
That's right, but the trouble is we can't prove that they knowingly printed lies without forcing them to reveal their sources. It's an unfortunate paradox.
I've said for years there should be an independant and strictly confidential body that monitors the press in a way that the press can feel they can freely right the truth and the public can be sure it's the truth they are reading.
Having to reveal your sources to a body that cannot decide what you print but can verify your sources while operating under an offical secrets act style confidentiality order is in my opinion a great idea.
If a story is in the papers and they say "A source close to Mr X can reveal", and they cannot prove to this body that their source is in anyway connected to Mr X, then they can still print the story but without a verification.
Conversely, if they print a story and say "A source close to Mr X can reveal" and they have proven their source to the body, they could say "A source close to Mr X that has been verified by the "Insert Body Name Here" can reveal".....
Well I think it's a good idea anyway.
Do you not think it comes at something of a good time to do though, rednev? I'm 100% for a free press and believe the way the Met handled the Amelia Hill case was an absolute disgrace.
We both know The Sun will never reveal their 'sources', despite what happens with this petition. But with the Leveson inquiry just getting started, newspaper editors are panicking and the industry has never been weaker.
This petition will put further pressure on News Corp at a time when they need it least. Murdoch has the annual NC meeting on Friday, shareholders are revolting. Would be a delicious irony if this was the straw that broke Rupert's back.
We both know The Sun will never reveal their 'sources', despite what happens with this petition. But with the Leveson inquiry just getting started, newspaper editors are panicking and the industry has never been weaker.
This petition will put further pressure on News Corp at a time when they need it least. Murdoch has the annual NC meeting on Friday, shareholders are revolting. Would be a delicious irony if this was the straw that broke Rupert's back.
RAWK has a thank you thread dedicated to this Caf thread. The thread was started by... wait for it............. Andy at Allerton, who's not sure if he's going to support Man Citeh this weekend.
fecking hell Andy, let's not grow up now eh?
All the rivalries aside, there's no need for commending these threads. As far as I know, we at the Caf have always been very respectful on topics like Hillsborough as we should be.
fecking hell Andy, let's not grow up now eh?
All the rivalries aside, there's no need for commending these threads. As far as I know, we at the Caf have always been very respectful on topics like Hillsborough as we should be.
I'll update this thread with the speeches from the MPs later when I get home.
SSN this morning discussed some of the articles in today's papers regarding recent events, so it's good that the issue is starting to receive more coverage.
SSN this morning discussed some of the articles in today's papers regarding recent events, so it's good that the issue is starting to receive more coverage.
@rednev: the speaker of the house, Mr Bercow, seemed to be encouraging MPs to call News International to answer for their behaviour during the aftermath of the disaster. By signing the first e-petition, the families got a unanimous response from parliament. If signing another one gets Kelvin McKenzie and his paymasters to answer for their lies, then I'm all for it.
Signed.
Signed it, nearly 15000 now.
Signed it, but with some hassle since i'm not a British Citizen or living in Britain!
As an pale-skinned Irishman, its not the first time I say feck the Sun!!
As an pale-skinned Irishman, its not the first time I say feck the Sun!!
Indeed. Well said.
Nice to see you around Fred.
Poorly thought out mini-rant by former judge:
Former judge tells Hillsborough families to drop 'conspiracy theories' | Football | guardian.co.uk
Former judge tells Hillsborough families to drop 'conspiracy theories' | Football | guardian.co.uk
I have only just seen this post, and being honest, I expected better from you.
The point about all this is that those poor families cannot move on because to this day they still don't know how or why their loved ones were lost. Sure they know they died at a football ground, but no one is telling them EXACTLY what happened, who was to blame, what could have been done differently.
Some of them still live with the knowledge that their children may have been laid out on the floor at Hillsborough with no qualified paramedics, barely alive but because there was no help there, they died. How can you live on knowing your 13 year old may have been alive and crying out your name and there was no one there to help ?
It seems like I'm tugging on heartstrings, and in a way I am. I have an 11 year old boy. I cannot even bring myself to imagine what would be going through my mind if he, in 2 years time, went off to a game, and for maybe 12-13 hours all I knew was what I saw on the TV. Not knowing if he's alive or dead.
Thats what those families had to endure. Then after that heartwrenching ordeal they find that they are only being told a fraction of the story of why it happened, of how it happened.
If someones negligence killed your child than you'd want answers, and thats precisely what they have been asking for for 22 years.
They won't ever get their loved ones back, thats painfully obvious. But each and every one of those parents would have traded places with their kids in an instance. No parent wants to see their child die before them, and those poor parents have had to endure that. THe least they deserve is to be told the real truth...
Very good post, fred.