Full disclosure being promised by Thesesa May.
e-petition to release the govt Hillsborough files
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
I'm just listening to the broadcast. It's ridiculous that these "minimal redaction" facts are only coming out now, but I suppose its small mercies that they are. Let's all hope the injusticies are fully laid to rest.
Let's face it, this was a situation waiting to happen and that couldh've been Utd or other Club's supporters and bereaved families asking these questions.
At the end of this enquiry, I sincerely hope the Families of the Liverpool '96 will finally lay their loved ones to rest.
From a United fan, but more so a Football fan.
Let's face it, this was a situation waiting to happen and that couldh've been Utd or other Club's supporters and bereaved families asking these questions.
At the end of this enquiry, I sincerely hope the Families of the Liverpool '96 will finally lay their loved ones to rest.
From a United fan, but more so a Football fan.
Calling on News International to reveal their 'sources' for the disgraceful claims that fans pick-pocketed the dead, among other lies.
There was a segment on NPR in the US today about Hillsborough. I heard a lady speaking about a crushing and thought it was weird for something about Hillsborough to be on in the US, but the part that I got to hear in my car was interesting. It should be online for download or listening this afternoon or tomorrow.
The Story from APM
The Story from APM
Apparently Joey Barton is in the gallery showing his solidarity with the families.
My local MP is on right now.
My local MP is on right now.
It's quite incredible that any media organisation is willing to employ Kelvin MacKenzie. Yet there he is, smug as you like, in the Daily Mail asking forlornly (no doubt on behalf of his business friends, who object to the vast riches provided by Minimum Wage legislation): 'Why can't our Teenagers be more like the Chinese?'
'This is the transcript of Liverpool MP Steve Rotheram's opening speech
in the Hillsborough debate in the House of Commons':
Video:
Steve Rotheram speech in full - Liverpool FC
in the Hillsborough debate in the House of Commons':
Thank you Mr Speaker.
I rise to thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting tonight’s debate following the incredible response to the Government on-line petition which attracted 140,000 signatures in just a couple of weeks.
It is because those people took the time to push the Government for the release of the Hillsborough documents - that today we are having the first ever Parliamentary debate resulting from an e-petition (although, after a fight for justice that has lasted 22 years - even this minor concession was called into question following last week’s shenanigans in this Chamber).
I would also like to thank colleagues for the fantastic response from nearly 100 MPs from 9 separate political parties who supported the application to the Backbench Business Committee.
This is a victory for democracy – a victory for people power, but it remains to be seen whether it will be a victory for the families. They have been let down so many times that they will not be surprised if there are those - that would prefer for this, to just simply go away.
For those that foolishly believe that this might be a potential outcome from tonight’s debate, let me make it absolutely clear from the start – this issue will never JUST ‘Go Away’ – NOT until there is Justice for the 96.
Mr Speaker - During this debate I will set out why I believe it is an important issue for this House to consider and outline why it is essential to press the Government on its commitment to release ALL papers relating to the Hillsborough Disaster.
I believe that all sides of the House should agree to the terms of the motion – but if not – it is my intention to press the House to a vote. My hope is that common sense, and ultimately, justice, will prevail.
Mr Speaker, I want to begin by setting out the context to this disaster as there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what happened on 15th April 1989 – and in the dark days, weeks, years – and – ashamedly, decades that followed.
There have only been a few occasions in my life when I have been completely overwhelmed by the emotion of the event I was witnessing - the birth of my 3 wonderful children – the death of my beloved mum and loss of close friends and relatives.
However, there is one other event that will live with me for the rest of my life.
And that is the tragedy at Sheffield on that beautiful spring day 22 years, 6 months and 2 days ago.
Before 1989 Hillsborough was just the name of one of England's famous old football grounds. But for the last 2 decades the word "Hillsborough" has evoked memories of Britain's worst ever sporting disaster.
It was a day when I helplessly watched frantic scenes – as people that had travelled to see a football match, some, mere children, lay injured and dying as they were pulled from the terraces.
I was one of the lucky ones that day – and all of my close friends (and members of my family) returned home, although for one (our Lisa), it was touch and go whether she would survive. Thankfully she did.
This unfortunately was not the case for 96 men, women and children who were killed – and for hundreds of others injured and left permanently traumatised. The loss of 96 innocent lives was bad enough Mr Speaker, but the tragic nature of their deaths was exacerbated by what happened next. Instead of those at fault taking responsibility for their actions, a coordinated campaign began - to shift the blame – and look for scapegoats.
To this day – NOBODY has been held to account for Hillsborough.
Mr Speaker, a half day debate, though welcomed, is not long enough to go into all of the details of this gross 22 year injustice, so I will concentrate on the 3 main pillars of the accusations against Liverpool fans, namely that thousands;
* Turned up late and were ticketless
* Were drunk and aggressive
* And broke down a gate causing a catastrophic crush.
Is it any wonder that some people have doubtful and distorted views as to the exact cause of the Disaster, when misinformation began almost immediately after the players were led off the pitch at 3.06.
The BBC and ITV news that very afternoon misreported what had occurred – and it is important to understand the effect this had – as it formed the immediate public perception of Hillsborough.
Source:
Liverpool Echo
I rise to thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting tonight’s debate following the incredible response to the Government on-line petition which attracted 140,000 signatures in just a couple of weeks.
It is because those people took the time to push the Government for the release of the Hillsborough documents - that today we are having the first ever Parliamentary debate resulting from an e-petition (although, after a fight for justice that has lasted 22 years - even this minor concession was called into question following last week’s shenanigans in this Chamber).
I would also like to thank colleagues for the fantastic response from nearly 100 MPs from 9 separate political parties who supported the application to the Backbench Business Committee.
This is a victory for democracy – a victory for people power, but it remains to be seen whether it will be a victory for the families. They have been let down so many times that they will not be surprised if there are those - that would prefer for this, to just simply go away.
For those that foolishly believe that this might be a potential outcome from tonight’s debate, let me make it absolutely clear from the start – this issue will never JUST ‘Go Away’ – NOT until there is Justice for the 96.
Mr Speaker - During this debate I will set out why I believe it is an important issue for this House to consider and outline why it is essential to press the Government on its commitment to release ALL papers relating to the Hillsborough Disaster.
I believe that all sides of the House should agree to the terms of the motion – but if not – it is my intention to press the House to a vote. My hope is that common sense, and ultimately, justice, will prevail.
Mr Speaker, I want to begin by setting out the context to this disaster as there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what happened on 15th April 1989 – and in the dark days, weeks, years – and – ashamedly, decades that followed.
There have only been a few occasions in my life when I have been completely overwhelmed by the emotion of the event I was witnessing - the birth of my 3 wonderful children – the death of my beloved mum and loss of close friends and relatives.
However, there is one other event that will live with me for the rest of my life.
And that is the tragedy at Sheffield on that beautiful spring day 22 years, 6 months and 2 days ago.
Before 1989 Hillsborough was just the name of one of England's famous old football grounds. But for the last 2 decades the word "Hillsborough" has evoked memories of Britain's worst ever sporting disaster.
It was a day when I helplessly watched frantic scenes – as people that had travelled to see a football match, some, mere children, lay injured and dying as they were pulled from the terraces.
I was one of the lucky ones that day – and all of my close friends (and members of my family) returned home, although for one (our Lisa), it was touch and go whether she would survive. Thankfully she did.
This unfortunately was not the case for 96 men, women and children who were killed – and for hundreds of others injured and left permanently traumatised. The loss of 96 innocent lives was bad enough Mr Speaker, but the tragic nature of their deaths was exacerbated by what happened next. Instead of those at fault taking responsibility for their actions, a coordinated campaign began - to shift the blame – and look for scapegoats.
To this day – NOBODY has been held to account for Hillsborough.
Mr Speaker, a half day debate, though welcomed, is not long enough to go into all of the details of this gross 22 year injustice, so I will concentrate on the 3 main pillars of the accusations against Liverpool fans, namely that thousands;
* Turned up late and were ticketless
* Were drunk and aggressive
* And broke down a gate causing a catastrophic crush.
Is it any wonder that some people have doubtful and distorted views as to the exact cause of the Disaster, when misinformation began almost immediately after the players were led off the pitch at 3.06.
The BBC and ITV news that very afternoon misreported what had occurred – and it is important to understand the effect this had – as it formed the immediate public perception of Hillsborough.
Source:
Liverpool Echo
Video:
Steve Rotheram speech in full - Liverpool FC
Unlikely to be a vote at the debate's end, as the Government is expected to 'nod' this through. According to Sky News, the documents may be in the families' hands as early as this evening.
Restores a bit of your faith in democracy and justice. Only a bit, mind.
MP Chris Heaton-Harris: "Liverpool fans were magnificent that day in helping each other."
Hope the scum put a huge apology on the front of their toilet paper.
News International should be run out of the country. 'The enemy within' indeed.
Been a brilliant debate.
Amazing debate from the MP's, quite emotional at times. Perhaps there is hope at the end of the tunnel for the victims and their families. Let's hope so.
Why on earth has this taken 22 years to be brought out into the open? It makes you wonder what sort of society we live in.
Alison McGovern MP just ended her speech to the House in tears. That's kind of a strange thing to see.
This thread is a credit to your club
At long last, some justice may be on its way, mate.
Thank you to Badunk for creating the thread.
Wonderful news. It's just a shame that it's taken this long for the truth to come out.
MP John Mann currently telling it like it really is for football fans:
BBC - Democracy Live - House of Commons
BBC - Democracy Live - House of Commons
"What gives them (The Sun) the right to publish such disgusting lies when people had died?"
Andrew Miller MP
Andrew Miller MP
Point of Order raised as to whether the Select Committees should summon News International to account for their Hillsborough coverage.
It's been an emotional day and I'm happy for the families and everyone who campaigned for so long. Living in Merseyside for half my life, with 90% of my friends and acquaintances being Liverpool fans, I've probably been more aware of the facts than the average United fan, but this thread proves that we can all look beyond club loyalty and fight for truth and justice. Thanks to everyone who signed the petition.
Could some of the fine historian posters/bloggers put together a truth thread about the rumours of that day and what really happened. They have one on RAWK on Munich and it's a great read.
Glad to hear this news from the Commons. Seems this Tory Government seem determined to put some of the miscarriages of the past to rights.
Glad to hear this news from the Commons. Seems this Tory Government seem determined to put some of the miscarriages of the past to rights.
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much for this thread.
Justice for the 96 and their families transcends club rivalry.
Unfortunately, I personally lack the expertise to write such a thing, mate. One website that is recommended by RAWK, amongst other fora, is:
The Hillsborough Football Disaster: Context & Consequences
The website contains downloadable files, including one entitled Hillsborough's 20 Questions.
The people behind the site also have a Facebook group:
Log in | Facebook
Defies belief it's taken so long for something like this to happen. Progress at long last, a step towards justice for the 96.
When I signed the e-petition, I did so more in hope than expectation. It's good to be proved wrong. Hopefully the Government do what Theresa May promised and make all the information available. It's still shocking that it's taken 22 years
I thought that the motion for release of the material would be carried without any vote, the current Parliamentarians in the debate must have been wondering why this hadn't been done in previous terms.
Glad to see common sense prevailed and that those affected can shed further light on that horrific day in their lives and their loved one's deaths.
Glad to see common sense prevailed and that those affected can shed further light on that horrific day in their lives and their loved one's deaths.
Very impressed that MPs have finally done the right thing. Whatever is or isn't in those files, they never had the right to torture the victims' families by keeping them secret.
So what's the actual process for releasing these files now?
So what's the actual process for releasing these files now?
They get handed over to the families and the inquiry body set up by the likes of Burnham. I've heard there's 300k documents (others have mentioned 2 million!) to sift through and it's up to them to decide what should be censored and what shouldn't (eg personal info that has no relevance). They reckon the whole process could take 12-18 months.
Sincere and heartfelt thanks to everyone who has posted - its fantastic to know that in spite of (or perhaps because of) our differences we can unite on such a level.
Wow, i'm just glad it's all finally coming out. Watched some of the debate (thankfully an entirely one sided debate) and the speeches were fantastic, especially Alison McGovern's.
Thoughts go out to the families and i hope this can eventually give some of them some form of closure.
The e-petition is the best thing to come out of government for a long time. In fact as far as I can remember. This is true democracy because when the people speak THEY have to listen. If Hillsborough becomes the defining point of where true Democracy lies (with the people) then there is no more worthy cause.
I want democracy back, as in it's current form it is a sham, there is no such thing. Hopefully, future governments are "persuaded" by what the people want, and IF, this happens, Hillsborough will become the moment this happened and will become the paradigm shift we have all been waiting for in what it means to live in a true democracy.
Frankly, there could me no greater talisman than the Liverpool fans that lost their lives, after all their families have suffered, to advance true democracy in our country.
I hope that the families finally get justice and that the "chain reaction" of people power DEMOCRACY are finally upon us, democracy is not just a word, it is an ideal, listening to what the population think matters, it has been robbed from us and I want it back.
I want democracy back, as in it's current form it is a sham, there is no such thing. Hopefully, future governments are "persuaded" by what the people want, and IF, this happens, Hillsborough will become the moment this happened and will become the paradigm shift we have all been waiting for in what it means to live in a true democracy.
Frankly, there could me no greater talisman than the Liverpool fans that lost their lives, after all their families have suffered, to advance true democracy in our country.
I hope that the families finally get justice and that the "chain reaction" of people power DEMOCRACY are finally upon us, democracy is not just a word, it is an ideal, listening to what the population think matters, it has been robbed from us and I want it back.
At last one of the greatest government whitewashes of the last 50 years is going to be revealed.
Despite all the historic loathing between the two clubs this is a case where we all, as football fans should unite and ensure that never again are fans treated in such an appalling manner.
This goes right to the very heart of the game and how the authorities under Thatcher systematically mistreated and walked all over football fans, then when the shit hit the fan and things went badly wrong, they did everything in their power to ensure that the wrong people were blamed and went so far as resorting to stealing and losing evidence, falsifying documents, using the press to manipulate and twist the story knowing damn well that the blame for the whole situation lay at the hands of the club, the FA, the council and worst of all, the South Yorkshire Police.
Its 22 years since Hillsborough occured, and for 22 years they've fought to get the truth out into the open. Now perhaps those that were truly to blame will be exposed for what they are, and scum like Kalvin Mackenzie will be shown for what they are.
Fair play to those that have fought so long and hard. I may hate their club and I may despise the team, but I respect the fans 100% for fighting those that caused so much grief and haven't once had the balls to tell the real truth, and most importantly, apologised...
Well done to the fans of LFC..
( and it takes alot for any United fan to say that )
Despite all the historic loathing between the two clubs this is a case where we all, as football fans should unite and ensure that never again are fans treated in such an appalling manner.
This goes right to the very heart of the game and how the authorities under Thatcher systematically mistreated and walked all over football fans, then when the shit hit the fan and things went badly wrong, they did everything in their power to ensure that the wrong people were blamed and went so far as resorting to stealing and losing evidence, falsifying documents, using the press to manipulate and twist the story knowing damn well that the blame for the whole situation lay at the hands of the club, the FA, the council and worst of all, the South Yorkshire Police.
Its 22 years since Hillsborough occured, and for 22 years they've fought to get the truth out into the open. Now perhaps those that were truly to blame will be exposed for what they are, and scum like Kalvin Mackenzie will be shown for what they are.
Fair play to those that have fought so long and hard. I may hate their club and I may despise the team, but I respect the fans 100% for fighting those that caused so much grief and haven't once had the balls to tell the real truth, and most importantly, apologised...
Well done to the fans of LFC..
( and it takes alot for any United fan to say that )
Every time I hear the notes on the report of PC 227 repeated ('this shows they (the fans) were organised and we were not', 'have the PC amend his notes') it makes my blood boil.
I know that we're rival supporters of United and Liverpool, but Hillsborough isn't just about 'there but for the grace of God go I...' - in other words, stating that it could have been our fans who might have been victims of the disaster and the injustice; it's more important than even that scenario. The fallen, the families and friends are paramount in any discussion on the subject, and rightly so, but when you think that people have had to wait twenty-two years (more than two decades of disgraceful deflection, heartache and deception!) for what promises to be a semblance of justice, it beggars belief & makes one angry. Hillsborough is also about democracy, as 2Bullish stated above - signing that petition was not only an act of empathy and solidarity; it was also a statement aimed at those who govern us (no matter which party they represent): do not do this to 'your' people again.
Whilst I sort of agree with your point, I do feel that this shouldn't be turned into a political agenda issue, and the merits of democracy are not whats at stake here.
The bottom line is democracy or not, 96 innocent fans died through negligence and mistreatment, then the whole thing was covered up with lies and malicious actions. Not just by the government, but the police, the FA and the clubs themselves. In many ways the public are as much to blame for buying into the story, following the theory that all football supporters are scum and therefore deserved what they got.
I couldn't care less about whether or not its democractic, or whether or not the tories are trying to win votes. All I care about is that 96 families may finally get to see and hear the real truth, and more importantly, the public will get to see that those fans were not killed by fellow supporters. They were not "scum" who no one gives a shit about if they died, because all football supporters are hooligans ergo they brought it upon themselves.
96 fans died and their tale has never been told. We, as football fans owe it to them to ensure that through the tragedy the real story is the one thats painted on the wall of football history, not the bastardised version those in power think should be told. Their deaths brought about safer grounds, better facilities for all supporters, and made football clubs operate grounds that were fit for human beings to frequent. In years to come, their legacy will be that through their deaths and the subsequent fight to reveal what really happened, we, as football fans will enjoy the game in a safe manner and never be put in a position that could result in the same happening to someone else.
The FA could and should have learned after Bradford, and they didn't. Let us not forget that this is a victory for those poor souls too, because even after the tragedy of the Valley Parade fire, the FA and clubs refused to act.
It wasn't until 96 more fans died that someone decided enough was enough and it had to change. Those fans at Bradford died, again because of clubs not respecting fans and treating them like human beings. Putting profit before protection..
This is a victory for football fans in general, but its a hollow victory and one that we shouldn't have been fighting in the first place.
You're right, mate. I guess my desire that this situation should never again befall another group of people was rather lost in the politics of my post. While that is important, it's for another day; what is far more important at this time is justice for the 96 and their loved ones.