Ed Woodward's position - on top of the world?

[Red-Indian]

Cesc
Was pretty much impossible to get. With Thiago leaving and Xavi getting older, he's going to play a pretty important part in one of the best teams in the world, which also happens to be his dream club. Barca also didn't want to sell him, obviously... Does that mean that we shouldn't even make an effort? Obviously not. But we couldn't expect to get him, unless we made a ridiculous offer.

Baines
Moyes wanted him, but not for any price. Seeing as Evra is still awesome, there was no point in overspending(like we did for Fellaini) on a player in the same position. The reason the transfer took so long and utlimately failed has to be because we did our best to get a good deal for both players, seeing as Fellaini was coming anyways.

Khedira
It was a pretty quick and random offer that seemed bound to fail. Just like with Fabregas, we'd have to make an ridiculous offer to get him. All in all, the bid was just a shot in the dark.

I promised myself I wouldn't be discussing this debacle any further but I don't really get these. Clubs of our size and stature don't take 'shots in the dark.' You only make a bid when you're about 90% sure of getting the player. You'd have to have
- discussed with his agent regarding his readiness to move and willingness to move to us
- discussed informally with the club regarding their readiness to sell
- got a broad idea of valuation (say +/- 5m)


What's the point of faxing in a bid to see reaction? That's amateurish behaviour...a bit like a layman's view of how big deals are done.

 

[Rams]

I'm not even going to vote because absolutely none of us have any idea of what actually happened. Woodward is most probably a lot successful in his career then any of us on this forum so for any of us to suggest the man is incompetent is completely ridiculous. The facts are, we know feck all. All of you. So stop spouting shit!!!!

 

[Shimo]

I'm not even going to vote because absolutely none of us have any idea of what actually happened. Woodward is most probably a lot successful in his career then any of us on this forum so for any of us to suggest the man is incompetent is completely ridiculous. The facts are, we know feck all. All of you. So stop spouting shit!!!!

Lot of people out there that are probably more successful than any of us on the caf will ever be but, it also a lot of those people have probably royally fecked a job more than any one of us ever will because they were shit in that role. At least for one transfer window, Woodward has been shown, by the results, that he has been incompetent in his new role.

 

[Rams]

Lot of people out there that are probably more successful than any of us on the caf will ever be but, it also a lot of those people have probably royally fecked a job more than any one of us ever will because they were shit in that role. At least for one transfer window, Woodward has been shown, by the results, that he has been incompetent in his new role.

What results are those? That we didn't buy Allesandro the Exotic Sounding One for 85billion pounds? You know how many times I've had to endure this shit over the past 10 years, and how many times during this period we won the League?

 

[Revan]

Is it not the case that if we met the release clause we'd have to pay it all up front? We usually pay transfer fees in installments and add ons, but Everton would still claim to be getting a deal worth £27million even if it was actually something like £18 million spread across 2 years, with the other £9 million spread across incentives and achievments (that we may not even achieve)

The deal was 27.5m (not based on achievements). I don't have an idea if we are going to pay upfront or in installments but there isn't a chance (that even if we pay it over 3 years) it's worthy considering that we are paying 4m more (and haven't signed other players so very likely we have that money).

 

[Revan]

What results are those? That we didn't buy Allesandro the Exotic Sounding One for 85billion pounds? You know how many times I've had to endure this shit over the past 10 years, and how many times during this period we won the League?

Yeah sure, no-one ever watched Herrera play before. And Sir Alex was overrated anyway.

 

[Mister Ed]

What results are those? That we didn't buy Allesandro the Exotic Sounding One for 85billion pounds? You know how many times I've had to endure this shit over the past 10 years, and how many times during this period we won the League?

fecking hell, what results are those....

-We failed in our attempts for: Thiago, Fabregas, Herrera, Modric, Khedira, Baines and Coentrao !
-We failed to land the best attacking midfielder in the game, although he was available for little over £42m, instead we ignored the opportunity and let him go to Arsenal, where he will be brilliant and he will make them a contender again !
-For the one target we did manage to get, we overpaid £4 million because we left it to deadline day to sign him, while we could have landed him a month earlier for £4 million less !

We said in the begining of the window we have no budget and that we are looking to add worldclass players. We haven't added any worlclass players, just a decent necessary midfielder ( for which we ridiculously overpaid). When we had the chance to sign worldclass players (Ozil for example) we didn't take it. With all the derisory bids that all got rejected, we have also shown that there is a budget, a very tight one and that we under no means like to spend it !So our statements have all been bullshit, because we completley contradicted them with our own actions.

Those results perhaps ?

Or does that look like the work of a genius to you ? Because to me it looks like a really bad planned and even worse handled summer, in short it looks like a complete mess !

 

[Rams]

fecking hell, what results are those....

-We failed in our attempts for: Thiago, Fabregas, Herrera, Modric, Khedira, Baines and Coentrao !
-We failed to land the best attacking midfielder in the game, although he was available for little over £42m, instead we ignored the opportunity and let him go to Arsenal, where he will be brilliant and he will make them a contender again !
-For the one target we did manage to get, we overpaid £4 million because we left it to deadline day to sign him, while we could have landed him a month earlier for £4 million less !

We said in the begining of the window we have no budget and that we are looking to add worldclass players. We haven't added any worlclass players, just a decent necessary midfielder ( for which we ridiculously overpaid). When we had the chance to sign worldclass players (Ozil for example) we didn't take it. With all the derisory bids that all got rejected, we have also shown that there is a budget, a very tight one and that we under no means like to spend it !So our statements have all been bullshit, because we completley contradicted them with our own actions.

Those results perhaps ?

Or does that look like the work of a genius to you ? Because to me it looks like a really bad planned and even worse handled summer, in short it looks like a complete mess !

The facts are that you and I know very little, and that you are jumping to conclusions, and that Manchester United are far and the way the most succesful club in Britain over the past 20 years. Those are the facts. Now you...

 

[Mersault]

What results are those? That we didn't buy Allesandro the Exotic Sounding One for 85billion pounds? You know how many times I've had to endure this shit over the past 10 years, and how many times during this period we won the League?

I know the answer. Zero. Zero times have you had to endure a transfer window like this before. I mean, we've been pipped to top talent before, like with Ronaldinho and Robben. But this is unprecedented. And your painting the argument up with exotic-sounding-one for 85billion kind of argues the case of the opposite opinion, because you have to dress it up in hyperbole. We were looking at very good players, some of which weren't going to come and others who's transfers we tried to play cute with. Not happened before.

We know it. Others know it. Moyes knows it. Maybe Woodward doesn't.

 

[RedCanuck]

Woodward is entitled to more time. It wasn't a great window for him but we will have to see over a longer term if he is up to the job. To be honest, I was a little peeved at David Gill and Fergie over how the Pogba/Morrison situations were handled but over time they (obviously) had done a good job.

 

[rio's upper lip]

The facts are that you and I know very little, and that you are jumping to conclusions, and that Manchester United are far and the way the most succesful club in Britain over the past 20 years. Those are the facts. Now you...

Yeah, it's not like the reason for those successful 20 years is no longer with the team or anything.

 

[7even]

The owners shouldn't sack Woodward, this debacle isn't entirely his fault even if he's responsible for many of our amateurish mistakes under this weird transfer window. First. He has been very successful in his previous job and I think he should go back to the commercial department.

What the owners should do is to recruit a charismatic football man who have economical sense and good communication skills, someone with a wide contact net who are respected and experienced. Finally it's also important that Moyes improve his approach, this summer has been a learning process how it is working for a club of Uniteds stature but next window there is no excuses. It's lame to blame Woodward for every mistake when everybody with an uns of knowledge knows that buying players is a team work and both the owners and the manager and his staff should share the blame.

 

[Mersault]

maybe he shouldnt be sacked, but an accountant who is there to save pennies and maximize profit is perhaps not the best candidate to lead negotiations over transfer dealings, having - and I'm guessing here - never been close to that environment ever before in his life

turn him back into the club's accountant and find a capable decision maker

 

[Mad Winger]

I promised myself I wouldn't be discussing this debacle any further but I don't really get these. Clubs of our size and stature don't take 'shots in the dark.' You only make a bid when you're about 90% sure of getting the player. You'd have to have
- discussed with his agent regarding his readiness to move and willingness to move to us
- discussed informally with the club regarding their readiness to sell
- got a broad idea of valuation (say +/- 5m)


What's the point of faxing in a bid to see reaction? That's amateurish behaviour...a bit like a layman's view of how big deals are done.

That doesn't sound right at all to me, but oh well....

As for the rest: the formalities can be in place without a bid actually being made. That's why these quick "cowboy" transfers exist in the first place. Also, I never wrote that we were just faxing in bids to get a reaction. We probably genuinely wanted these players, but not at all cost. We're a cheap bunch, and I think that's a good thing.

At the end of the day, other clubs know that we're in "desperate" need of a CM. That's why they know that they can squeeze out a good deal. If we had to spend nearly 40 million in order to get Herrera, then something is seriously wrong with the market. How much would we have to spend on Fabregas in order to sway Barca? 50 million? 60? MORE?

Let's face it: there are barely any CMs who are:
A) Good enough for United
and
B) not too old
and
C) available for a reasonable price.

With just a few exceptions(Fellaini being one of them), no CM on the market fits this description. Especially if we want the player to be at least fairly proven at top level.

 

[Adebesi]

You want to know what will make Woodward's position untenable? Demoting him after a few months into the job and bringing someone else in for him to report to. I can't imagine he would stick around in those circumstances. That's why it won't happen, everything he has done that got him promoted in the first place is too valuable to the owners.

So they'll give him way more time. Which itself is misleading because it implies they are even thinking in those terms, which I doubt they are. I imagine they're poring over the numbers that'll be published in the next few weeks, rubbing their hands together with glee at all the revenue we're bringing in, and the relatively small expenditures we're making. Does anyone really think they care how we perceive this transfer window? I've seen no evidence we're on their radar at all, in terms of their concerns.

 

[Shimo]

What results are those? That we didn't buy Allesandro the Exotic Sounding One for 85billion pounds? You know how many times I've had to endure this shit over the past 10 years, and how many times during this period we won the League?

Results was evidenced by the number of people he went in for and not only did most of them not pan out but, the position it left us in. That people we dealt with ridiculed us openly and that today the club is being laughed at - that is the result of whatever work he has done over the last couple months

 

[ndhunz]

Why would the Glazers sack Woodward? He helped them buy over United with loans that went into United's book
instead of the Glazers, then helped increase commercial revenues by securing many sponsorship deals. And now
he helped them saved a hell lot of money in the transfer window while pretending to have a limitless budget. He
is such a great ASSet to the Glazers... no way they'll sack him.

 

[Revan]

That doesn't sound right at all to me, but oh well....

As for the rest: the formalities can be in place without a bid actually being made. That's why these quick "cowboy" transfers exist in the first place. Also, I never wrote that we were just faxing in bids to get a reaction. We probably genuinely wanted these players, but not at all cost. We're a cheap bunch, and I think that's a good thing.

At the end of the day, other clubs know that we're in "desperate" need of a CM. That's why they know that they can squeeze out a good deal. If we had to spend nearly 40 million in order to get Herrera, then something is seriously wrong with the market. How much would we have to spend on Fabregas in order to sway Barca? 50 million? 60? MORE?

Let's face it: there are barely any CMs who are:
A) Good enough for United
and
B) not too old
and
C) available for a reasonable price.

With just a few exceptions(Fellaini being one of them), no CM on the market fits this description. Especially if we want the player to be at least fairly proven at top level.

Sorry, but what is your point? The market isn't wrong, the market is how it is. You can either adapt to it and pay like other clubs, get better scouts and create your players (Dortmund, Porto etc) or cry and moan that the market is unfair.

The third shouldn't be an option and doesn't do any good to no-one.

 

[Revan]

Why would the Glazers sack Woodward? He helped them buy over United with loans that went into United's book
instead of the Glazers, then helped increase commercial revenues by securing many sponsorship deals. And now
he helped them saved a hell lot of money in the transfer window while pretending to have a limitless budget. He
is such a great ASSet to the Glazers... no way they'll sack him.

This isn't true. The two first points stands but the third one is bullshit.

Ultimately these are Glazer's money and they decide how to spend them. They don't need a person to help them to not spend their money.

 

[Red-Indian]

That doesn't sound right at all to me, but oh well....

As for the rest: the formalities can be in place without a bid actually being made. That's why these quick "cowboy" transfers exist in the first place. Also, I never wrote that we were just faxing in bids to get a reaction. We probably genuinely wanted these players, but not at all cost. We're a cheap bunch, and I think that's a good thing.

At the end of the day, other clubs know that we're in "desperate" need of a CM. That's why they know that they can squeeze out a good deal. If we had to spend nearly 40 million in order to get Herrera, then something is seriously wrong with the market. How much would we have to spend on Fabregas in order to sway Barca? 50 million? 60? MORE?

Let's face it: there are barely any CMs who are:
A) Good enough for United
and
B) not too old
and
C) available for a reasonable price.

With just a few exceptions(Fellaini being one of them), no CM on the market fits this description. Especially if we want the player to be at least fairly proven at top level.

I guess i'm just speaking from experience from time in M&A. We used to do a hell of a lot of work before we finally sent in a bid. The actual bid was mainly a formality and only had scope for minor negotiation. Never more than 10%-15%

It might work differently in football player acquisition deals though I don't see why.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, that is the market reality i'm afraid. If we don't want to play by the market rules, we have to change the game. Maybe develop a feeder club of the likes of Porto or Ajax that can buy young talent through a huge scouting network and develop it for us. Maybe develop an academy of the standards of Barcelona (though that doesn't seem to have protected them from paying big money for player acquisitions).

 

[Mad Winger]

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, that is the market reality i'm afraid. If we don't want to play by the market rules, we have to change the game.

Then I suggest we show the market our middle finger and continue to buy no-namers and turn them into stars, with only the occasional star signing

 

[DJ Jeff]

Do we even know the ins and outs of his position, his exact role and exactly how much of the weight of a transfer is on him? I doubt it.

 

[Red-Indian]

Then I suggest we show the market our middle finger and continue to buy no-namers and turn them into stars, with only the occasional star signing

Then let's hope Moyes is as capable of that as Fergie was. He does have the pedigree of getting the best out of his no-namers so there's definite hope there.

 

[Amir]

Even if Woodward is totally inept when it comes to transfers, it doesn't mean he should be sacked or go. Maybe we simply need someone else, within the club or a special appointment, to deal with transfers. He could be a very good CEO or vice chairman or whatever they call it. Not everyone can do everything well.

 

[Still ill]

It's almost like buying players is the actual business of the club and not playing football. What a shower of drama queens.

 

[moses]

It's almost like buying players is the actual business of the club and not playing football. What a shower of drama queens.

Today has been an eye opener alright.

 

[ciderman9000000]

It's almost like buying players is the actual business of the club and not playing football. What a shower of drama queens.

The caf has had an absolute shocker of the summer.

So many little bitches!

 

[antohan]

I guess i'm just speaking from experience from time in M&A. We used to do a hell of a lot of work before we finally sent in a bid. The actual bid was mainly a formality and only had scope for minor negotiation. Never more than 10%-15%

It might work differently in football player acquisition deals though I don't see why.

It doesn't. The strange thing is someone like Woody should be well acquainted with what you are saying. He probably regards players as commodities, feck knows, but I'd argue there's more of a cold numbers-based capitalist logic in M&A, while player transfers have intangible/emotional aspects (player, fans, manager, Chairman) that need handling and therefore maybe even MORE groundwork.

 

[Mr Anderson]

Or the club said so in order to save face.

Wouldn't take long for that lie to backfire on us.

 

[antohan]

It's almost like buying players is the actual business of the club and not playing football. What a shower of drama queens.

We are discussing Ed Woodward, playing football isn't his job.

 

[ndhunz]

This isn't true. The two first points stands but the third one is bullshit.

Ultimately these are Glazer's money and they decide how to spend them. They don't need a person to help them to not spend their money.

They needed a puppet to take the fall for not spending and still make them look good.

 

[rcoobc]

Keep him. Buy him Football Manager and make sure he plays it 3 hours a week. Problem solved.

This

 

[Revan]

They needed a puppet to take the fall for not spending and still make them look good.

Meh, they don't care what supporters think. Also, if he didn't make them (their United owner after all) look bad, dunno what will make.

 

[rcoobc]

He/Someone/United fecked up the bid for every single player we tried to sign! Apart from this Varela fella. Which quite probably was in the pipeline for ages, or out of his jurisdiction. Every single bid got fecked up. Thats practically unbelievable.

On the other hand we kept Nani and Rooney.

There is some sort of cash-flow problem, I wouldn't say he should lose his job after just a few months.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Pretty sure as Chief Exec, he does more than just negotiate player transfers. What a ridiculous thread.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Then I suggest we show the market our middle finger and continue to buy no-namers and turn them into stars, with only the occasional star signing

If you need one thing and everyone knows it, you're going to pay more for it. That's just how it works.

 

[Rams]

There isn't some sort of cash flow problem, they've all just got a pile of extra cash from the new TV deal. The only problem is that most football fans seem to be thick and seem to believe any old shit.

 

[manutddjw]

To be fair to Woodward his appointment was ill advised to begin with considering the situation we found ourselves in this summer with Sir Alex retiring. Woodward is clearly a talented businessman as his track record shows, but to do the job he finds himself in now you need alot of qualities which he doesn't possess because of his lack of experience in this area. For one, he doesn't have a significant number of contacts with clubs and agents in the football world, nor the rapport with them. If you don't have this, it hurts chances of completing deals, which is one of the reasons alot of clubs are opting to go with a Director of Football nowadays.

With Sir Alex's retirement, we really needed someone with more experience to help us with the big transition we're going through, not someone with very little experience in such an important role. Let's not also forget how important having Sir Alex was in regards to transfers. We only have to look at signing Van Persie to see who the real "Equalizer" was. If Sir Alex doesn't have that conversation with Arsene Wenger, I highly doubt we sign Van Persie last season no matter how much the little boy inside him screamed for Manchester United. Moyes doesn't have this kind of respect yet, so we really needed some help in certain areas and instead we got someone with no experience.

What's done is done this summer and no point in complaining about something we can't do anything about, but I do fear that Woodward has significantly damaged his reputation in the football community to the point that it would be better off for us in the years ahead if he stepped aside for someone more experienced.

 

[That'sHernandez]

There isn't some sort of cash flow problem, they've all just got a pile of extra cash from the new TV deal. The only problem is that most football fans seem to be thick and seem to believe any old shit.

Unfortunately this seems to be probably the truest statement in the whole thread.

 

[Sultan]

It's almost like buying players is the actual business of the club and not playing football. What a shower of drama queens.

That's the debate.

Supporters want the club to buy class players, and see great football. To the likes of Woodward it's a business. Finances and performances on the pitch are connected. We are in a very competitive league, more so than previous seasons. It's vital we always qualify for a Champions league place.