Mdjtylland in the Europa League under LVG. Won 5-1 at home.
In the league? Fergie's last game. 5-5 v West Brom.
Entertainment value or just get the 3 pts?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
In the league? Fergie's last game. 5-5 v West Brom.
It'd be therapeutic I tell you, to finally see a midfield capable of retaining the ball under pressure. CBs not panicking on the ball
Is this even a question, we are Manchester united, we expect to win. I don't care how we do it but not winning is failure for us.
I am for that what mourinho did whole his career. Entertainment against weaker teams, playing on result in big matches. Last year that approach was success.
I think you got to have entertainment value as others have said. If we were winning 1-0 with the only shot and playing ultra defensive you would soon lose the fans. The sponsors would follow which would impact the ability to bring in new players etc. The fact city Liverpool spurs all play attractive attacking football shows how far the mighty have fallen
The fact that there masses of United fans who are ok/happy with this shite, also shows how the mighty have fallen.
The next person who says “we are Manchester United” should be shot in front of their loved ones.
There are not masses of United fans happy/ok with the way we are playing. They are perhaps just not wetting themselves because they realise there has been a lot of upheaval aver the past five years. Yes, I have noticed, too...
Has anybody noticed how brilliant Liverpool or Spurs look when they also struggle to break down the Burnley/WBA bus parkers? In fact, they struggle a sight more than we do. They are also a fair way behind us in the table, which, we kept being reminded last season, was more important than winning trophies.
Edit: Oh, and the aforementioned clubs have won the sum of feck all during our aforementioned period of upheaval
There are not masses of United fans happy/ok with the way we are playing. They are perhaps just not wetting themselves because they realise there has been a lot of upheaval aver the past five years. Yes, I have noticed, too...
Has anybody noticed how brilliant Liverpool or Spurs look when they also struggle to break down the Burnley/WBA bus parkers? In fact, they struggle a sight more than we do. They are also a fair way behind us in the table, which, we kept being reminded last season, was more important than winning trophies.
Edit: Oh, and the aforementioned clubs have won the sum of feck all during our aforementioned period of upheaval
Pretty much this. People keep slating Mourinho but his football wasn't worse than what we played towards Fergie's final years. I remember so many matches where we were awful during 2007-08 and 2008-09. The difference? We used to win those matches 1-0
I agree with all of this.
I want a win above everything else, and want to win in entertaining fashion whenever possible. What I've seen from Mourinho over the last two seasons is a belief that this current squad isn't capable of doing both simultaneously and consistently, so he chooses what matters most: wins over style.
What many people are complaining about is they think that the wins are a sign of the type of football Mourinho wants to play. They are not. There have been very few United matches that resemble a "Mourinho game." But since all those people know is the sh*t the media feeds them ("he's a park-the-bus manager, and that's how he always wins"), they fear what the future holds for United. Mourinho wants to dominate, and dominating on offense is how he won La Liga.
Both of them are not mutually exclusive as our manager would have us believe.
About that 3 points e’reyday, e’reday
We're never going to play breathtaking football under Jose and I was ok with that at the start of the season.
I thought for the first half of this season we generally played a decent style of football, plenty of attacking and plenty of goals. That was ok for me. I could live with playing like that .
The issue has been as the season has gone on the style of football has become worse and worse to the point where these last few weeks we have been veering dangerously close to LVG boring. This week we've had something like 6 shots on target in 3 games.
So that would be my concern. That once again under Mourinho we're finishing a season with the style of football we play getting worse every week.
I thought for the first half of this season we generally played a decent style of football, plenty of attacking and plenty of goals. That was ok for me. I could live with playing like that .
The issue has been as the season has gone on the style of football has become worse and worse to the point where these last few weeks we have been veering dangerously close to LVG boring. This week we've had something like 6 shots on target in 3 games.
So that would be my concern. That once again under Mourinho we're finishing a season with the style of football we play getting worse every week.
Both preferably, but if it has to be one then it's the points every time. A good performance that coincides with dropped points can't be that good, can it?
What a statement. PatheticThe next person who says “we are Manchester United” should be shot in front of their loved ones.
There are not masses of United fans happy/ok with the way we are playing. They are perhaps just not wetting themselves because they realise there has been a lot of upheaval aver the past five years. Yes, I have noticed, too...
Has anybody noticed how brilliant Liverpool or Spurs look when they also struggle to break down the Burnley/WBA bus parkers? In fact, they struggle a sight more than we do. They are also a fair way behind us in the table, which, we kept being reminded last season, was more important than winning trophies.
Edit: Oh, and the aforementioned clubs have won the sum of feck all during our aforementioned period of upheaval
We are actually not very bad under Jose except in recent games. And even Jose acknowledged that the Brighton game was not how he wanted it to be.
When in form, we play decent enough football and win a lot, which is enough for me. Not gung-ho football, but not LvG levels either.
When in form, we play decent enough football and win a lot, which is enough for me. Not gung-ho football, but not LvG levels either.
Well before you can truly answer that question you have to define entertainment and I feel that some people on here won't be happy unless we win 4-0 every game and have 10 shots on target or more.
Entertainment is fast paced, incisive attacking football where players pass and move and look like they know what they're doing. That will naturally lead to chances being created, for both teams. Winning 4-0 is irrelevant. Sport is about action, drama, excitement, stuff that gets you on the edge of your seat. Currently United are so far away from any of that I may as well be watching a game of chess. It'd be just as sleep inducing.
If that is the case you only have to go back to the Chelsea and crystal palace games to find that.
Edit: also the 2nd half of the Sevilla game was very entertaining if you look at it as a neutral obviously.
Honestly, if we could win every fecking match in the world and win the PL and CL year after year as a result of playing shit football then i’ll take it.
But it doesn’t work like that and I think we can do both.
But it doesn’t work like that and I think we can do both.
Whatever the tactics these players should be able to have more than 2 shots on target a game.
We've become clinical, it doesnt seem that long ago we moaned about missing easy chances. Under jose, we have had games where we created a number of chances so somethings changed in either jose or the players.
We've become clinical, it doesnt seem that long ago we moaned about missing easy chances. Under jose, we have had games where we created a number of chances so somethings changed in either jose or the players.
For the money the club as forked out on players .I would expect some flair and entertainment. If not you could scout players in the lower divisions ,put a team together and still get the performance to get those 3pts ,saving millions.
I'm sorry but immediately we hired MOu you can't ecpect him to change. We all knew what he was like!
Nothing about that Sevilla game was entertaining. Watching our defence hoof the ball 40 yards isn't entertaining. Watching our midfield pass it backwards for 90% of the match isn't entertaining. Watching our attacking players run in to blind alleys and not have a clue what to do with the ball is not entertaining. Watching Valencia aimlessly smashing cross after cross in to the defenders shins isn't entertaining. I can't recall ever seeing another team in the top 4 that was as painfully boring to watch as us. When you consider we've paid hundred of millions of pounds to assemble such a dour team it is really quite concerning.
Short term I'm fine for the 3 points.
Longer term I expect to get to at least the same level of entertainment as what Chelsea were at their peak under Mourinho. I don't expect Pep/Klopp/Pochettino level of 'entertainment', but what Mourinho himself has done in the past has been miles better than what we are currently showing. If we get to that level of combined efficiency and solidarity, I'm fine.
Longer term I expect to get to at least the same level of entertainment as what Chelsea were at their peak under Mourinho. I don't expect Pep/Klopp/Pochettino level of 'entertainment', but what Mourinho himself has done in the past has been miles better than what we are currently showing. If we get to that level of combined efficiency and solidarity, I'm fine.
The trouble is though the 2 things he was bought in to win, the PL and CL, he has no chance of winning.
This. But some entertainment thrown in would be nice.
For me, entertainment is important in the games where we have enough quality to steamroll a team. But when it comes to playing your rivals, then it's all about the points.
True, but only this year. At the beginning of the season everyone was talking about a two-horse race between Man City and United, and United were winning all of their CL Group Stage matches. The reason I'm still supporting Mourinho is because I think he will get United at least one of those titles next year.
Yes.
Also, I find there to be an uncessary correlation drawn between success and unexciting football, as if the more rigid/non expansive/cautious you play, the higher chances you have at succeeding. It's been treated seemingly as a necessary evil. Which makes you wonder why anyone plays interesting and attacking football at all? Is the world really full of so many dreamers who happily sacrifice success? The truth is that there are different ways to be successful. You can be successful while boring the tits off everyone, and you can be successful while playing entertaining football. Your chances of success depends on your execution of the plan and how good the plan actually is. Like you, I believe that a club with enormous resources doesn't need to play dull football to win.
Basically 4 categories of fan:
1. Wants both attacking play and 3 points.
2. Wants attacking style of play - No matter at what cost; do not mind losing occasional cup matches if the team plays in 'entertaining way'.
3. Happy with 3 pts - Just care about results, more than happy to see attacking or defensing or whatever approach as long as 3 pts is in the bag.
4. Entertaining against minnows, 3 points against big sides.
I believe most fans fall under category 2 and values attacking style of play more than 3 points. Personally, all i care is 3 points, End of the day thats what we are playing for.
I feel there is a big disadvantage in the defensive approach though. Over the course of season, the team faces situation like 0-0 against average/poorer side until 75' mark. The teams that have attacking approach tend to make more of such situations than the defensive sides - simply because they are good at scoring while defensive sides have higher chance of finishing off such games 0-0.
On another note, 'Entertaining' is subjective. A good possession style is enterntaining to one, not so much to another. I have met ample number of people supporting different clubs who told me they get bored watching Pep's Barca side. United's 4-4-2 side that played with fast attacking vibe is entertaining to one, but to another, its just kick and run football without any creative graft and just relying on hopeful crosses in the box. Same goes with counter attacking sides - sometimes the fast break situations payoff and its exciting to watch, same side playing on another day with same setup cannot make use of those situations and are branded useless side.
1. Wants both attacking play and 3 points.
2. Wants attacking style of play - No matter at what cost; do not mind losing occasional cup matches if the team plays in 'entertaining way'.
3. Happy with 3 pts - Just care about results, more than happy to see attacking or defensing or whatever approach as long as 3 pts is in the bag.
4. Entertaining against minnows, 3 points against big sides.
I believe most fans fall under category 2 and values attacking style of play more than 3 points. Personally, all i care is 3 points, End of the day thats what we are playing for.
I feel there is a big disadvantage in the defensive approach though. Over the course of season, the team faces situation like 0-0 against average/poorer side until 75' mark. The teams that have attacking approach tend to make more of such situations than the defensive sides - simply because they are good at scoring while defensive sides have higher chance of finishing off such games 0-0.
On another note, 'Entertaining' is subjective. A good possession style is enterntaining to one, not so much to another. I have met ample number of people supporting different clubs who told me they get bored watching Pep's Barca side. United's 4-4-2 side that played with fast attacking vibe is entertaining to one, but to another, its just kick and run football without any creative graft and just relying on hopeful crosses in the box. Same goes with counter attacking sides - sometimes the fast break situations payoff and its exciting to watch, same side playing on another day with same setup cannot make use of those situations and are branded useless side.
Perfectly summed up in the first two replies.
A lot of black or white questions and opinions on the caf for some reason.
We should have both a lot of the time, and 3 points most of the rest of the time.
Who wouldn't want #1? We're talking want, not willing to settle for
Those who believe pragmatic approach has edge over entertaining approach.
100% Spot on. That's all I have been trying to say ad nauseam for weeks now.
Too many glory hunters around spoiled by years of Fergie's success and who don't know any different.
This bullshit argument about winning comes first is destroyed when you look at say any other club outside United, Chelsea and City in modern times.
How do Torquay supporters deal with not winning in their entire history a d being relegated seasons in a row? Or Rotherham supporters? Spurs? Etc? Or United supporters in the 80's?
You support your team because you love them and want to be entertained. Heartache and agony comes with the success and many take success for granted and arrogantly expect it now. It's not a right that should be taken for granted. I wonder how many would stick around here if we were relegated? Or go 10 years with only an FA cup victory like Arsenal?
I've been through droughts as a fan and lived the entire Fergie era and can honestly say I am sick of this bullshit win over everything attitude. We can have both, as we have the resources to do so BUT for me, entertainment 100% comes first.
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Enjoy maybe isn't the correct word, but I could take another season of this, if it meant 35 1-0 wins and the other 3 draws, 40 shots on target for the season, this place would be in meltdown, but that would be nothing compared to the press. I would get my entertainment from their seething articles.
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Strange thread, or maybe the question, how low have have our expectations got to even create a thread like this but anyway here is my 2 cents worth. We are Man Utd, known through its history to be an attacking entertaining team. Now we are not that at all, but we seem to be getting the points, comfortably no. City are showing you can be both, Liverpool and Tottenham are showing they might not win every game but the football is very entertaining, if Liverpool sort out their defence they too will definitely doing both. Now we have Jose who at the moment is really sucking the life out of football and hoping for better days. I too hope for better days next season, maybe with a couple of new players in this summer but I am not holding my breath, it isn't in his DNA.
Like the beginning of this season we weren't perfect, needed some couching and tweaking but we were attacking and winning and quite entertaining but then came the first real challenge(Liverpool away), Jose got straight back into his comfort zone, defend, defend, defend and from that moment on something broke in the team and has never recovered. We can say it had to do with injuries to Pogba and Bailly but that is now proving to be the wrong assumption.
Like the beginning of this season we weren't perfect, needed some couching and tweaking but we were attacking and winning and quite entertaining but then came the first real challenge(Liverpool away), Jose got straight back into his comfort zone, defend, defend, defend and from that moment on something broke in the team and has never recovered. We can say it had to do with injuries to Pogba and Bailly but that is now proving to be the wrong assumption.
That results and entertainment are being framed as mutually exclusive events just boils down to the fact that the man who happens to be our manager at this time can't seem to manage both anymore.
A balance of entertainment and results is needed to keep fans happy, with results normally outweighing the entertainment factor. However, at some point the football becomes so consistently horrid that it outweighs the enjoyment of the 3 points. Personally I'm reaching that stage, largely because our players look so poorly coached that I have little confidence in our results being sustainable (as it is, we're already limping over the line).
A balance of entertainment and results is needed to keep fans happy, with results normally outweighing the entertainment factor. However, at some point the football becomes so consistently horrid that it outweighs the enjoyment of the 3 points. Personally I'm reaching that stage, largely because our players look so poorly coached that I have little confidence in our results being sustainable (as it is, we're already limping over the line).
Mourinho is extremely entertaining.
Three points. Didn't get three points for it but no one was complaining when we won the Europa League.
How can you be 2nd in the league, and play sh*t football? I don't get this. He must be doing something right. Beat all top 6 teams, except Man City.
On that note, I have enjoyed many games this season. We may be boring sometimes, but our finishing is clinical, something we missed last season. Heck, I think our start was awesome, scoring a lot of goals in the process.
On that note, I have enjoyed many games this season. We may be boring sometimes, but our finishing is clinical, something we missed last season. Heck, I think our start was awesome, scoring a lot of goals in the process.