That’s a little short sighted though isn’t it? And not how you approach letting youth players leave. It’s not the here and now but the management of potential and providing the opportunity and platform for it to develop.
Enzo Fernandez | Chelsea €121m player
- Thread starter Samid
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What about a model where they’re forced to sell these players due to extreme financial mismanagement?
Every one of those would be better than their replacements and their replacements cost 2x as much
So they're Brighton now?
Not really. If anything it’s made them be able to make big investments and it’s served them well pretty much up to now.
It’s a bit too hindsight driven to be critical of them selling players that wanted to leave, weren’t at the time appearing ready to progress and in some cases have taken until 26 to be even in the conversation.
Mount was given that opportunity, James was and others it’s just the levels needed are incredibly high.
They have the ability to sell them for profit. And they regularly do to great effect.
I’ll criticise Chelsea for lots of things but this was a clever model to get around financial constraints.
I mean they don’t all fall in to that category though? And many are actually better or at least equal to what they have ended up with?
Tomori, Gilmour, Abraham, Ake quickly..
All could be in their first XI currently in my opinion and would have saved the billion plus pounds they have been spending. Even Guehi, who I know has been injured recently, but another who would have given them more than the 80m Fofana for instance.
I’m not sure how anyone looks at that as a success and can’t acknowledge poor planning.
I’d argue Tomori was knocking on the door just before his sale but the rest weren’t. At the stage at which they they were sold it’s not like they were clearly going to displace the first XI and it certainly wouldn’t have saved that much. Gilmour isn’t as good as Caicedo and Enzo for example and I don’t think will be of the requisite quality for a side hoping to challenge for silverware.
I do agree someone like Guehi or Tomori would have a place ahead of a player like Fofana but also Fofana has been desperately unlucky with injury.
Chelsea have a production line of youth academy products that they’ve been able to play or sell for very good fees consistently. Something we’ve struggled to do.
Trying to steer back on topic a bit but players like Enzo are objectively better than any academy product they could pull out recently.
Sorry what?
Just to give me some late night amusement, which academy player did we willingly sell is better than Christopher Nkunku?
I didn’t even bother engaging on that comment.Sorry what?
Just to give me some late night amusement, which academy player did we willingly sell is better than Christopher Nkunku?
Yeah couldn't be bothered to go through it all, although believe it or not this is one of the more mild Chelsea related comments he's made (should have seen the post when we appointed Tuchel).
Unfortunately some seem to have more interest in flaming with this topic than anything else, even after multiple posters have put them right. First we apparently mistreated a player we thrown into a title winning side and now this.
Crap player talking crap at Mount over a fluke win. Would be nowhere without the world cup he got carried in.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a Chelsea academy player leaving them without getting a chance in the first team that makes me think they really dropped the ball on that one
Like Abraham, Tomori, Guehi are the ones I see mentioned that Chelsea shouldn't have let go and...why? Because they screwed up signing better players than them? That's a failure of identifying and signing players. It still doesn't make those guys good enough for Chelsea(at least not for where Chelsea wanted/wants to be)
Like Abraham, Tomori, Guehi are the ones I see mentioned that Chelsea shouldn't have let go and...why? Because they screwed up signing better players than them? That's a failure of identifying and signing players. It still doesn't make those guys good enough for Chelsea(at least not for where Chelsea wanted/wants to be)
How’s this guy been for 120mill? I’m guessing he hasn’t set the world alight?
A completely overrated player, elevated by argentinas world cup win. Moved for money and ambles around for a team in 10th while giving it the usual argentine tough guy act.
He'd look amazing for Arsenal or Liverpool but yeah he hasn't shown the ability to elevate his team yet. Might be Chelsea are just too big a mess, but still...
I agree. The main discontent is not making these players into capable squad players. Guehi and Tomori would've been just as adequate backup as Disasi and Badiashile (if not better) and would've saved us around 80m in the process. Not saying these players would've been happy with "only" being squad players, but it is frustrating seeing players who could've done a job for us do it for other clubs while the relatively expensive replacements aren't performing significantly better.
He's been one of our more consistently good performers in a dysfunctional team. I doubt he'll ever "live up" to the 110m price but that was obviously a premium paid for getting him midseason and actually buying him before another team likely would've gotten him in the coming summer.
Yeah but those guys weren't signed to be adequate backups though, they were signed to be starters?(and Disasi never made any sense to me anyways, but that's just me)
Because you spent badly. Guehi and Tomori would've still been backups at best, and you needed starters
Better than the £10m midfielder they paid another £100m for. Slightly.
I’m struggling to see what he does for £107m that mac allister doesn’t do better for £35m. They’re basically providing the same skill set and occupying the same positions for club and country. One just does everything better than the other, cost a third of the fee, and is paid less. Am I missing something?
They don't really provide the same skill set, as shown for the national team where Enzo was generally more involved on the ball, stood out more, and was the player that turned the team's performances around
Now as for the transfer fees, yeah, the difference is pretty mad, but it's the market
Hope Mount chinned him in the tunnel.
You're missing a few things.
One plays at the most dysfunctional, chaotic club in the world.
One plays under a manager who has total trust, control and love of all the other players, fans and staff members.
The most relevant thing you are missing about their price difference is that one had a buyout clause.
When they are both in the same team, Mac Allister doesn't outshine Enzo by any significant degree does he?
Mac Allister is a really good player in a really good team. Enzo is a really good player in a complete clusterfeck.
They both did. One was at a bigger club, offering CL football and was 21 having just moved to Europe. The other was 25 having been in Europe for a few years and managed to get a relatively low clause, at a smaller club, because his contract situation allowed him to force them
I should have said "one had a low buyout clause". That's my point about the reason for the price difference.
I'm imagining one of them was unless they've completely given up on Fofana. Disasi is indeed strange as he doesn't fit the current transfer strategy that seems to focus on players significantly younger than him. And yes, the discontent is for overpaying for players who haven't been upgrades. I might have missed some context earlier in the thread but I don't think we're disagreeing. Guehi and Tomori are good but not at the level to win the league which is what I assume the owners are aiming towards, and neither does Disasi and Badiashile seem to be although good enough to be third and fourth choice.
I don't think think the comparison is that simple. Liverpool are a well-drilled side with a manager who is in his 9th season or so with the club while Enzo has played for three managers while he's been at the club, neither of which of course at the level that Klopp is.
With Enzo he’s honestly had an up and down season. One of our better players in most games but as others have said it’s a dysfunctional club and dysfunctional team. Think of it this way, remember when Tuchel over from Lampard and all of a sudden over the next 18 month players like Rudiger, Christensen, Chilwell, Mount, Kovacic and Jorginho became some of the best players in the league in their positions. We’ve been stuck in the Lampard before Tuchel phase for 2 years now.
Someone was gloating about Mac Allister. If roles were reversed and Enzo was signed by Liverpool for £100+ million and we signed Mac Allister that same Liverpool fan would be in here talking about ‘that’s why you spend the big bucks’.
The price is the price. There’s nothing Enzo can do about that.
Someone was gloating about Mac Allister. If roles were reversed and Enzo was signed by Liverpool for £100+ million and we signed Mac Allister that same Liverpool fan would be in here talking about ‘that’s why you spend the big bucks’.
The price is the price. There’s nothing Enzo can do about that.
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Yes they paid a lot for him but without him Chelsea would have been relegation canditates. A top player who gives his all for his club. The fact he had a dig at Mount shows he has a bit of a mean streak in him. Nothing wrong with that!
You are one year in the club and having a go to a guy who spent 15 years at that club and won multiple trophies there.
What an idiot.
What an idiot.
I don’t know what went on between them. Initially Mount was trying to time waste, that was blatant, don’t know what they said to each other there but then Mount pushed him by the neck. The full time stuff was probably just the residue from the earlier incident.You are one year in the club and having a go to a guy who spent 15 years at that club and won multiple trophies there.
What an idiot.
I also kind of think Enzo heard the boos for Mount and thought ‘oh he’s the enemy now? Alright let’s go’.
Absoultely, putting too much talk on prices is silly, it's just the market.
Yet..
Mac Allister stood up more in the NT and was more vital for the team since he is a more mature player with an extra ice "cold"/feisty winner edge that is great to have. Still you need to understand that like Modric, Gundogan and others in that mold, they do not have much pace, so you have to understand as a coach were you threw him to take advantage of his best attributes. He just turned 25 and is a very very mature player on every sense.
Enzo provided the spark of a very confident young player after two excellent breakout seasons with a jack for all trades atributes and great stamina, yet not mature at all and still don't having a more clear role combine with inmature tendencies due to his age.
He still operates too much on instinct and his technique.
Enzo needs to find his real role or at least do many roles but more calm, with more tactical awarness and less tendency for the fancy stuff just to be fancy.
Still he is very committ, he is not shy, he ain't a wuss and he might prevailed or sadly get crushed under the weight of those trillions they paid for him in a very disfunctional CLUB, not just team at this moment.
Timing is everything, I believe if Man Utd bought him, him with the initial Casemiro and a healthy Lisandro at the back would have provided a very much needed hold on the ball for United, but we all know how life operates and how things are now with him, Case and Licha.
He should have stayed in Benfica, being loved instantly, playing in great form, growing into a role and alter make the jump if he wanted to another League or club, more mature, in a more organized context.
I dunno if it was his agent, if it was him, or the Club smelling all those zillions or all of those things at the same time, but it looked like a bad move and it ended as a bad move. Now he has to grow a thick skin, try to mature a lot faster, embrace those gallons he looks wanting to grab at Chelsea and play in consequence at the best he can.
BTW perceptions are everything, nowadays it looks like Palmer does everything right, while he doesn't, everyone that watched the kid in City and nowadays, nows that he has talent, he has balls, but like Enzo he is fecking inmature as hell.
He constantly keeps the ball without passing, he gets into crowded areas loosing it, he realeses too many times when the advantage is gone after his initial great play....like Enzo he has to mature, but it's very improtant to show like he does, desire, will, courage to be him (like Garnacho, Mainoo so far) and NUMBERS.
The thing it's that as long as he scores or assists, all these things that any Chelsea fan can see, will be forgiven and more when his price tag wasn't that high and being "snatched" from City.
Back on Enzo if he doesn't translate in stats his game more often, even if he ain't a true super skill 10 or sthg like that, he'll face more and more backlash. No matter if he actually does a good or very good game, he is in the spot since first minute and HE PUT himself there when accepting such a transfer, so he'll have to deal with it.
Once the ball starts to run, the rival is the rival, no mater if he is a former club player (mount), your brother (the milito brothers clashes in clasicos were legendary), a former mate in another club (Macca going after Caicedo as ife he just met him and hate him, Romero blasting Enzo).You are one year in the club and having a go to a guy who spent 15 years at that club and won multiple trophies there.
What an idiot.
That's how a game should be played, after the whistle we grab a couple of beers if we are mates and we go on.
Yet another issue is if the play, tantrum, foul, whatever was useful or not (Macca agaisnt Caicedo was great, useful, Romero blasting Enzo was exccessive, silly and ended in a penalty)
I wonder if we’d paid £110 mill for him if there would be radio silence over him being only one of our better players but not setting the world alight 
I agree about "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch" stuff but this is completely different situation. He just made himself silly. Who are you to point on the badge to a player who has done 100 times more for that club than you? Who became European champion with that club?
It is like losing 5:0 and then after scoring a goal for 5:1, mocking a gk. I am not English but i think the right term for this Enzo situation would be "cringe".
If James did that then it would be ok but the guy who is there one year and club is at worst state in last 20 years......nah. he is a plonker.
Edit: ah,you are from Argentina. I get the sentiment now towards him and Lisandro.
. I would be the same about Gvardiol or Modric i guess.
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Imagine if he was paired with another 120m midfielder yet our best midfielder would still be Mctominay.I wonder if we’d paid £110 mill for him if there would be radio silence over him being only one of our better players but not setting the world alight
That’s essentially Chelsea with Gallagher
I didn't meant it only in the "what happens.." but more related to once in the pitch, there are no former or actual anything, the rival is the rival, and players normally operate in the heat of the moment.
I might find it cringe, but for me it's more accurate to read that it actually paints a picture of the pressure he puts on himself to become some sort of leader, to deal with the constant Enzo is going to leave because this ship it's done and actually trying to change the ship course.
Also might be some sort of in the heat in the moment thing, fueled with that Enzo personal need to be perceive as trully comitted to the cause and some typical fan reaction against "Mount the traitor" that left the ship in bad shape going to a rival.
Do not think it was such a big thing either.
PD: Antony showing the badge also showed how desperate and hard must be to be in even a worse situation like he is, to do such gesture with his first fecking assist, but we also live in a very social media period were players clearly many times can't handle that excessive enviroment.
Read edited part of my post.
Nah, come on, me being argie? It has nothing to do with that at all, I love the game per se and I have a list longer than the Nile with argie players I'm not fond of .Read edited part of my post.
Cringe por not, do you actually think that the reason I guess he've done that it's not related to what I've said?. I think it's pretty on point.
Yet more important, like every Forum there is very little talk about football and plays per se, timing, etc that could be more fun for me and accurate, but I guess that the constant antagonism and yellow press media in general has tainted everything. There is even in Chelsea's Gallagher goal lots of clues of what's wrong with Chelsea's game in general and Enzo's struggles. Or even on Alexis's goal there is a clear example of also how timing and things going fine on every sense can help you too. Sometimes I'm tempeted to analyse such things, but later I remember that it would be just wasting time
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He's alright, the price was mental but Chelsea have bigger issues than him. He could definitely be a good addition to a good side if he was in one.
Wesley Fofana was the one signed to be the starter, to replace Silva long term. He unfortunately got crocked. Colwill is earmarked to be his partner. Disasi and Badiashie were signed to their high quality cover with the potential to be more under the right coaching hands.
Chelsea's recruitment strategy isn't as haphazard as people often try to paint it.
He was much better under Potter & Lampard where he was the deepest midfielder and first outball for the CBs to pass to. This season its been Caicedo in that area. Enzo has done well at times but there's been plenty of matches where you barely notice him throughout the game. I'd prefer it if he swapped positions with Caicedo personally until our team improves as a whole for him to shine more going forward.
Jesus what a load of drivel. Are there year end Caf awards for silliest post? And if so, can anyone point me towards the nomination form?