DavelinaJolie
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- May 8, 2013
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His all.around play is really good. I've been impressed with his little forays into the opposition half and the passes he's making when there.
I agree with much of what you write. Lindelöf was our best defender with a clear margin the first part of this season. He had a very good working relationship with Maguire last season (notwithstanding that some posters ‘feel’ they have an error in them). This season, apart from the obvious preseason issue that should make us discount the opening three matches when looking to evaluate anything, Maguire has been the weak link. He has played below his own par and is only just now starting to rid himself of the mental unawareness that has seemingly affected him this season.Agree, no player in the world automatically means higher line. But the whole idea, that Bailly is necessary if we want to play a high line is based on theoretical assumptions, not observations. We assume that he is better for a high line because he is fast and aggressive (try to win back ball early). So far, in the matches we have seen, there has not been a higher line. Yesterday was very low line at times, especially considering we faced a team who was the worst in possession I've ever seen in PL. And there is so far nothing that indicates that we play more offensive football with Bailly. Observations so far points in the other direction, actually.
When we compare the three CBs, we should remember that Lindelof had a good run before he was taken off for injury. His last matches were very good, including both an assist and goal in the last two as CB. This is why it is strange to me that "Bailly's form vindicates pretty much all the criticism" you have over Lindelof. Bailly was good yesterday, but tbh I would have expected a win and a clean sheet with any of our CBs, even Tuanzebe, if they partnered Maguire. After all, most teams who play Burnley keep a clean sheet.
This is why it is ridiculous when people claim we should find a partner for him, and not continue with Maguire. Bailly is very weak in the air, and without Maguire's aerial dominance it would have been tough yesterday. Now Bailly is even better than Vidic, I read.
IMO, continue to play Bailly against the weaker teams where he can excel, and Lindelof against the better teams and best forwards, where he normally excels. Both get the rest they need, and I think we get out the best from both. And one day there will inevitably be an injury on Maguire.
This. Bailly has had a few good games and has always been capable of that, but has never been able to do it consistently over a season, never mind season after season like Vidic. Bailly is also capable of losing his head and having some absolute nightmare games. The talent has always been there but hopefully he can keep his head until the end of the season and avoid injury.Vidic was miles ahead of Bailly.
If Vidic was playing today he'd be by far the best defender in the league.
Bailly did this twice yesterdayLindelof can spray a nice long ball occasionally. Not something Bailly does.
agree but no one would be shocked if he threw in a brain fart against Liverpool.Big fan of his. Just hope he can stay fit. Yes he’s prone to the odd rash moment but on form, he’s fantastic.
Whether Bailly is the answer in the long term going forward mostly depends on his fitness, which has always been the issue since he signed, and he's shown huge potential ever since then. What Bailly's recent performances do show, is that, regardless of whether he is the answer or not, Lindelof is without a doubt NOT the answer, and we would be much better off with a CB with Bailly's qualities in there rather (whether him or someone else) than Lindelof's.He's not single handedly transformed the way we play so no but his individual ability means we have more moments of a sustained progressive and higher line, which is what most people have been saying/wanting. If Burnley pressed us harder than I would have expected to see more cracks but that's just an overall fundamental issue with the coaching. No one's been hailing Bailly as the saviour, rather that he has obvious qualities ahead of someone like Lindelof.
Remember your comment about Bailly only geting praised in Caf? If you watched the Sky Sports commentary, Neville said a few times he's a much better fit for Maguire and has been very good. Not that Neville's words are anything to go by.
To me Bailly's form vindicates pretty much all the criticism many of us have over Lindelof.
Again, let's not get too excited because it may be short lived but I'll liked to get used to this.
unfortunately, Rashani or Greenandes is not a unit. And we are in business of naming units hereRashani and Greenandes too?
List themSeriously. There are many things Bailly can't do what Maguire can do.
Agree when you summarise their total performances; you take consistency into account.Vidic was miles ahead of Bailly.
If Vidic was playing today he'd be by far the best defender in the league.
True. Hope one day it'll be SAF vs OGS...I'm a OGS doubter (not outer) but will be great. You never know.Whenever players are discussed on the Caf. It turns into an argument about which one of two is better, and the other gets trashed.
we have had
martial vs Rashford
Bruno vs Pogba
Shaw vs Telles
now it’s:
Maguire vs Bailly
whoever started the Bailly/Vidic comparisons is so very wrong.Agree when you summarise their total performances; you take consistency into account.
I’m talking about Bailly’s performances after his return. In that context I completely disagree Vidic was miles ahead of Bailly, I’m not even sure replacing Bailly with Vidic would have made any difference.
Bailly when he plays like he do now is among the best defender in the league, the same as Vidic was. It's an exaggeration and very likely wrong to claim if Vidic has played today he’d be by far the best defender in the league.
The original point was about consistency. It’s hard for someone to show consistency when they’ve barely played. If it wasn’t for injuries and both Bailly and Maguire played the same number of games back to back, I don’t think there’s any doubt who would perform better over that period. That’s the point. That’s factoring in Bailly’s moments of madness as well!fitness and mentality are equally as big.
you can have all the ability in the world, without fitness and mentality, you can’t be a decent footballer. You could in the 80s. Not now.
who had the better ability Lingard or Morrison? Who is the better player?
continue to disagree.The original point was about consistency. It’s hard for someone to show consistency when they’ve barely played. If it wasn’t for injuries and both Bailly and Maguire played the same number of games back to back, I don’t think there’s any doubt who would perform better over that period. That’s the point.
Everyone is talking about how Bailly makes Maguire look better. That says it all. No one thinks Maguire makes Bailly look better.
You are probably better to just continue to disagree.continue to disagree.
Maguire and Bailly look like they are complimenting each other. Still needs more time than 5-6 games.
As part of that, obviously Maguire makes Bailly look better. Just imagine Bailly and Lindelof or Bailly and Tuanzebe. People are talking about how Bailly is making Maguire look better, because he’s the new one of the partnership. How obvious is that?
and obviously there’s doubt over who would be better over the longer term.
How about we be happy that we have a partnership that looks to be working well. It will get thoroughly tested at the weekend.
far better to look at facts than fiction, and that’s that Bailly has barely been available for the past 2 years.
to proclaim “if it wasn’t for injuries” means the square route of nothing and it not a worthwhile argument.
My take on this.continue to disagree.
Maguire and Bailly look like they are complimenting each other. Still needs more time than 5-6 games.
As part of that, obviously Maguire makes Bailly look better. Just imagine Bailly and Lindelof or Bailly and Tuanzebe. People are talking about how Bailly is making Maguire look better, because he’s the new one of the partnership. How obvious is that?
and obviously there’s doubt over who would be better over the longer term.
How about we be happy that we have a partnership that looks to be working well. It will get thoroughly tested at the weekend.
far better to look at facts than fiction, and that’s that Bailly has barely been available for the past 2 years.
to proclaim “if it wasn’t for injuries” means the square route of nothing and it not a worthwhile argument.
we definitely do. Bailly is doing his best to prove me wrong, and I’m very happy about that. But we can’t dismiss his injury record after being fit for a month.He's been immense, as everyone has pointed out its just whether he can stay fit or not.
For those saying we don't need a CB I think we still do, but it's Tuanzabe I feel is the one in danger of getting shipped out. Let Lindelof be back up to Maguire and bring in a pacy CB to challenge Bailly for the other spot.
Yep, and when he brings the ball forward he can do so quite rapidly, which makes a lot of difference. His passing was super sloppy against Watford though. But he's been very impressive in this short run of games. Hope he stays fit.Bailly did this twice yesterday
We already have one of those, his name is Phil Jones.He loves defending. The kinda guy who would try to head the ball off a strikers foot as they are leathering it
We will rectify that in the summer. I am sure Rojo and Jones wont be here next season. This will free up a CB slot.we definitely do. Bailly is doing his best to prove me wrong, and I’m very happy about that. But we can’t dismiss his injury record after being fit for a month.
you are right Tuanzebe is the one in danger. If Maguire was out for a sustained period, the defence would fall apart.
the problem is we still have Rojo and Jones on the books - and we have to get rid of them first I would suggest. We actually have 6 very well paid centre halves at the club.
Maguire is the better CB but Bailly can be an even higher level if this form continues.List them
I don’t think a loan would work. He has to play for us now if he’s going to make it.We will rectify that in the summer. I am sure Rojo and Jones wont be here next season. This will free up a CB slot.
I do not think Tuanzebe will cut it here. He has pace but he never uses it, he almost jogs back which is worrying. Maybe a loan again to PL club?
100% over rated. I was guilty of this too. I haven't seen anything from him to say he will be a top CB. He isn't good in the air, he makes mistakes and hasn't stayed fit.I don’t think a loan would work. He has to play for us now if he’s going to make it.
perhaps the PSG game was a complete outlier. I’m not comparing the two, but even William Prunier looked fantastic in one match (his debut) for us.
Maybe we overrate him.
I still believe PSG was a good game because it suited him perfectly, not because it was an outlier. It was a clear and well defined task, he did not need to make many decisions, and he executed his task very well. He was one part of an 8 man defence. He struggled much more when he was suppose to cover the whole line himself against Istanbul BB.I don’t think a loan would work. He has to play for us now if he’s going to make it.
perhaps the PSG game was a complete outlier. I’m not comparing the two, but even William Prunier looked fantastic in one match (his debut) for us.
Maybe we overrate him.
Bailly makes less errors per game but when he does makes them, his errors are generally disastrous as it probably leads to a red card and/or a penaltyFeel a bit sorry for Bailly... who genuinely is more error prone between him and Lindelof? I would be stunned if the answer to that is actually Bailly.
Rojo and Jones should be gone by summer at the latest. Tuanzabe will have had a couple of seasons to stake a claim by that point as well, and looks nowhere near doing so. I wouldn't expect him to be sold, but rather relegated to 5th choice which is no good for him at all.we definitely do. Bailly is doing his best to prove me wrong, and I’m very happy about that. But we can’t dismiss his injury record after being fit for a month.
you are right Tuanzebe is the one in danger. If Maguire was out for a sustained period, the defence would fall apart.
the problem is we still have Rojo and Jones on the books - and we have to get rid of them first I would suggest. We actually have 6 very well paid centre halves at the club.
Maguire is better on the ball , that includes first touch, dribbling, and passing.List them