Sadly it’s commonplace in literally all industries where there’s big fees.
Erik ten Hag | Bayer Leverkusen Manager
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But in football agents broker deals between clubs all the time, and it’s normal to use 3rd parties to sound out a potential deal. The fact that United then went and paid €80m for an unproven, young forward is just another exceptionally poor investment and business decision. United are/were able to make silly decisions like that all on their own.
The fact that his son is an analyst in the same company isn’t great optically, but given his seniority it’s pretty unlikely that he got any financial windfall at all. I agree that the conflict of interests that agents have more often than not is bad. But it doesn’t seem too far out of the ordinary in the particular case. If Højlund had banged in 30-odd goals a season and EtH had led us to a PL victory, you’d have people praising his use of his relationships to land such a great player. It can go both ways.
Yeah well he hasn't. Because Hojlund quite clearly is a player who should have been nowhere near worth this kind of transfer fee in terms of quality and talent and as such noone in their right mind would have assumed he could "bang in 30-odd goals a season".
Of course it's ultimately United's fault to have let Ten Hag and his agent use our money like that. Irresponsibly, excessively, and tinged with nepotism.
Antony, Onana, Mount and Hojlund will leave the club at a massive loss I would suspect.
Yet no one has left the club and proved us wrong. Manager or player wise.
Except Di María, but he genuinely didn't want to be here regardless of whether we were on the right track or not.
That's simplistic. You can say that about his first season at Ajax, but then they lost most or all of their key players and he had to remould the team (tactically; Overmars was responsible for squad building). The result was quite different from his first team, and despite the overall quality being clearly less, he did well in the CL again in his third season. So you can't just dismiss his work at Ajax. (Plus he was also very strong at his earlier clubs, but they weren't on the same level.)
You can’t dismiss it, no, but you can certainly adjust the weight you give to it. Some really poor coaches in the past have done well with Ajax
He might do really well at his next club. It’s just my personal belief that he won’t, because I think his stint at Ajax had a lot going for it that his next job won’t have.
I don’t think we have ever seen a coach so tactically inept as he was at United. I think it revealed real frailties as a coach. I can’t see how any top coach would set up that poorly for such a long time.
I think it will be a disaster in a competitive league with inferior players. It was the players who saved him at times at United, in spite of the way he was setting them up.
Level headed take that. I feel like I need a username change with all the EtH hate on here.
Yeah it does feel a bit strange to hate him at this point. I don't think he is a good manager, but I hope he proves me wrong because honestly why would I care? Why not hope someone has a good career rather than the alternative.
Yes it’s unfortunate but he just never should’ve been given so much say in transfers. Same as Ole before him. But the truth is that is on the club in the end.
Oh well. Onwards and upwards.
If Ole was given same authority we'd have had Haaland, Bellingham, and Grealish along with Bruno. Thing with ETH is that, every single of his big signing was a failure and some were shady af.
Everyone ignores that and pretend we signed van Gaal, Mourinho etc. at peak of their managerial careers, when it was clear they were starting to get past it before even we signed them.
You might have had those players. And might not. Just wanting a player doesn't mean you actually get him.
And even then there is no guarantee that they would have developed as well at United as they did elsewhere.
Thats not the point of discussion.
Bruno, but yeah he’s the exception to the rule
Agreed, and even he gets dragged often enough when i give a match day thread a percursory glance. (Which admittedly also doesn't say much, given the state of United's season)
And the state of match threads! Proper cesspit that brings out the best and worst in people.
United has felt cursed the last 10+ years, but in reality it’s probably just the result of poor executive decision making without coherent long term strategy.
I'm not convinced he's a great coach yet
I don't think it's possible to say from his united stint as he got so lost in it, and the club has multiple issues feeding into all that
but tldr he kept picking the same failing setup when our midfield was getting carved up, and sure we had injuries and didn't have the right players for the way he wanted to play and all that shit
but every manager has to deal with issues like that, he had years, 100s of millions and failed to
his biggest weakness in my view is he's too stubborn and unwilling to adapt, which is a trait great coaches don't have
I don't think it's possible to say from his united stint as he got so lost in it, and the club has multiple issues feeding into all that
but tldr he kept picking the same failing setup when our midfield was getting carved up, and sure we had injuries and didn't have the right players for the way he wanted to play and all that shit
but every manager has to deal with issues like that, he had years, 100s of millions and failed to
his biggest weakness in my view is he's too stubborn and unwilling to adapt, which is a trait great coaches don't have
How about NotEtH?Level headed take that. I feel like I need a username change with all the EtH hate on here.
My biggest issue with him was that he didn't set up the United team the way he set up his Ajax one. Most coaches are associated with one style and they adapt it to the players they have available but I had never seen that a coach abandoned the style which made him successful because he wanted the playstyle to fit the club culture. He was in charge of that and he enough money at his disposal to buy the players needed for it. He obviously didn't want to be less successful for stylistic reasons and thought he could be every bit as successful with transition football as he was with positional play but to me that is a huge, huge misconception and I automatically doubt a coach who makes such terrible decisions.
In Amsterdam, he has proven that he's able to coach a possession-oriented system to a high standard so the optimist in me thinks that there is still hope that we'd get the Ajax Ten Hag and not the United or Utrecht one. But I very much prefer a coach who is convinced of his tactical approach and doesn't change it based on what the fans and media want to see. I want somebody like Pep or Alonso who are convinced that positional play is the best and most successful way of playing football. Somebody with visions instead of pragmatism.
That he came across as very vane and small-time comes on top of that. As said, I could somehow live with his appointment and see the positive sodes but I'd prefer that I don't have to.
In Amsterdam, he has proven that he's able to coach a possession-oriented system to a high standard so the optimist in me thinks that there is still hope that we'd get the Ajax Ten Hag and not the United or Utrecht one. But I very much prefer a coach who is convinced of his tactical approach and doesn't change it based on what the fans and media want to see. I want somebody like Pep or Alonso who are convinced that positional play is the best and most successful way of playing football. Somebody with visions instead of pragmatism.
That he came across as very vane and small-time comes on top of that. As said, I could somehow live with his appointment and see the positive sodes but I'd prefer that I don't have to.
What kind of player Højlund actually is, isn't relevant to the point I'm making. I'm making the point that relationships are leveraged in all businesses and all walks of life. When things turn out well, you'd argue that you're getting value out of your network. In any case, these things should work on an arms-length principle at the very least. What kind of influence Erik ten Hag and the agent had on this particular deal is impossible to say anything about without more evidence. This does not seem like a particularly unusual deal for the Manchester United of the last 10+ years.
For the record, I dislike agents as much as the next guy, I think they are leaches and parasites that line their own pockets often by operating in moral grey zones. Players getting representation is completely legitimate, but some of these guys engage in really unsavory business practices. With all that said, I still don't think there's enough in this Højlund/SEG/EtH case to pass judgement on.
We have gotten worse in the league than we were under this guy. Unbelievable!
It's the result of his tranfer targets and his two years tenure of basketball football.
He not only peppered your squad with duds but also completely destroyed your front line, and you're lucky to have sacked him before the winter break, because something tells me that Amad would've been gone. The Hojlund transfer should be investigated.
He left Amorim with a Mount Everest sized mountain to climb even if the latter isn't covering himself with glory.
I hope wherever he ends up gives him a significant say in transfers so he can come back for some of them.
Ten Hag wanted Kane, not Højlund. So what is your point then?
Manchester City would be likely ranked 9 in Premier League of future just like Manchester United in Premier League ranked 8, it lucky that, he managed Manchester United to won FA Cup against Manchester City 2-1 last year. Also Erik Ten Hag are also had a wrong order.
Everybody wanted Kane. The fact is he chosed Hojlund instead of splashing money for Kane, and dont say we couldnt afford him considering we splash 140m on Hojlund - Mount combined that season.
The club decided against Kane. Deemed him a poor investment. He was #1 on Ten Hag’s list that summer.
Did they? My impression was they figured Kane was impossible - Spurs wouldn't sell within PL and the player wouldn't force an exit
No he was there for us if we’d stumped up the £100m. Whether he would’ve chosen us over Bayern is another matter. But the club saw it as a poor investment and pulled the plug on the transfer so we’ll never know.
In a normal business anything amounting to a few thousands would need the approval of a list of experienced and well knowledgeable people. United had nothing of the sort on deals that ran into the tens of millions. We even allowed the manager to have a veto which means that he could force the club in not signing anyone unless they weren't his own players.
I am not defending eth in any shape or form. Loopholes exists in almost every job. That doesn't mean that they should be exploited. However united carry most of the blame here. They insisted on an outdated football structure which was lead by yes men despite knowing very well that it was crashing us to the ground
If I was a football club owner I would never hire ETH. It's one thing being out of depth. That can happen. But running a club to the ground so you can fill it with your mates is a different cup of tea
I am not defending eth in any shape or form. Loopholes exists in almost every job. That doesn't mean that they should be exploited. However united carry most of the blame here. They insisted on an outdated football structure which was lead by yes men despite knowing very well that it was crashing us to the ground
If I was a football club owner I would never hire ETH. It's one thing being out of depth. That can happen. But running a club to the ground so you can fill it with your mates is a different cup of tea
Either way, the point is that we can't praise Ole for his pipedreams while dismissing Ten Hag's. It's selective reasoning.
I anyway don't really know where that comparison is headed. Ole and Ten Hag were both poor at squad building, and United was poor for allowing their coaches to take the initiative in squad building (in a time where top clubs don't do that anymore). I'm not sure what's interesting about determining who was the absolute worst.
Yeah my original point was that we gave far too much license to Ten Hag like all our managers post-SAF. It is on the club in the end for not having the proper structure in place.
Some just remember his lucky cup runs as a sign he was better. Utter shit football and poor recruitment.
I don't think that was the case. Levy was briefing the press all summer that it would take a much higher fee than the one Bayern ended up paying for him to agree to Kane joining another PL team.
Yeah the talk at the time was it would’ve cost an extra £20m for us to get him. Either way we’ll never know.
There were murmurs from within the club that ETH and his agency had too much power when it come to transfer and that after we splashed 72m on Hojlund.
You completely missed the point considering Ole didnt have same authority when it come to squad building like ETH did, and before you argue with my let me remind you one name: Ed Woodward. Thats the clown who was in charge prior to 2022.
Yeah, agreed. One common theme in post SAF United, is that all the managers were all fairly backed….
It's not unbelievable really is it?
we brought in a new coach mid-season who plays a completely new style of play (requiring a completely different set of attributes that our players lack)
we bought one teenager in Jan who isn't ready for first team football
and despite not having the squad for it the manager just cracked on regardless (which he said he'd do from day one so we can hardly act surprised), so we have an already demoralised squad learning on the job, under immense pressure, in the hardest league in the world
Such a bizarre situation. Disillusioned as I may be with Amorim and his tactics there is no point in moaning about it as he literally came in and predicted suffering from the off. If anyone deserves ridicule right now it’s INEOS.