Because the club doesn't get value for the money spend for Sancho and this all tanks his value, so even if he is so United will likely only recover a fraction of what he did cost.
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Club would take massive financial hit if and when Sancho is Sold more than had he been quietly moved on , no matter whose side you are on this scenario only loser in this case is the Club as things Stand .
His value was only tanking anyway because of how undeniably crap he is.
If anything it might help us as it might limit his options as big clubs won't want to go in for him - thus he might only have Saudi as an option.
thats true...but that cost could be money well "spent" as sending a clear message to the players that there is a level expected here and if you dont achieve it then you are gone. train everyday like its your first day or you go.
Well the problem started when we signed him for daft money without doing any due diligence on whether or not he had the right mentality to succeed at a club like United or even be effective in the PL. Now we're just dealing with the problem. You don't stick with a problem just because you spent money on it or spent time doing it, that's sunk cost fallacy. Just get rid and accept the mistake, learn from it and move on.
Fair enough anyway what's done is done now let's hope we have learned our lessons .
Yeah just get him the feck out. It's cathartic to clear out some of the shite players, and it forces the cheap bastards in charge to replace them.
Managers can do what they want - that’s not been questioned, when/if successful, they are rightfully lauded for it - when adding unnecessary distractions/unwanted conversations then it should also be recognised they caused it. Mourinho has seen great success throughout his career doing so, but it also has also led to him falling out with players and ultimately ending up sacked.
This has worked? He was already not selecting the player, he could have just continued not to select him instead of inviting increasing media scrutiny, confusion among fans and potentially tanking the resale value of a player who’s sale is likely needed to bolster his funds. All in the back of spending the entire preseason playing said player as a false 9 - in which he looked good, by the way - to then start the season and never playing him there once, and United having its worst start to a prem season. Effective management.
For clarification - again - this is a pointless exercise. These circular conversations won’t change my mind and I’m not trying to change yours per se.
Irrespective of who you side with you can’t help but feel the issue isn’t helping matters at the moment in terms of squad cohesion
Sure, Sancho currently being shit and on top of that lazy is the key to this situation.
if his value is tanking, we should be looking at offering him a new contract.
Its quite to easy and convenient to make unconventional statements on an internet forum. If these people were managers in real life, they would kick any employee out who behaved like Sancho the very next day.
But nah, lets blame the manager who has done nothing wrong, nothing unprecedented and back an underperforming lazy piece of shit.
I actually think the situation might help us as a buying club might think that we are selling him because of a personal problem with the manager instead of him being shite. Without the stand off, the only explanation for the sale is him not being good enough.
If these discussions are pointless then why are you in here discussing your point? It's a discussion forum, this is literally the point.
So you don't feel that a non-selected £80m Jadon Sancho would not draw scrutiny from the media? I hate to break it to you but the reason Ten Hag was asked the question in the first place was because he literally didn't select Sancho for the Arsenal game, and that was one game. You think the media were just going to ignore Sancho not being in the squad for weeks? This is United you're talking about.
The bolded part: first of all, resale value is bollocks, this is Manchester United, this is your end destination if you're a great player, there's no 'resale' or profit to be made on players who leave United because they leave when they're no longer the best players in the world, and that's the way it should be. Second point, you've got a player who just won't come to training on time, won't conform to standards, and won't do as he's told, yet he should somehow be involved in the squad? What message does that send to the lads that are doing what they're told? How would you feel if you were watching your manager select someone who won't do the basics while you don't get a sniff? You'd lose all respect for him and the trust is gone because he's obviously full of shit. Then the manager has lost the trust of the squad and is rightly sacked as performances get worse.
These players will get you sacked as a manager so who gives a feck if the fans are a bit confused? It doesn't take anyone special to work this situation out, just some life experience within a management role.
And yes, this has been successful and effective because believe me when I say Sancho would gladly sit out his contract and do his usual shite 5/10 performances for the rest of his United career, maybe even get a new contract at some point, but now he can't do that, he's been forced to seek a move. Shite staff will always successfully hide when the managers are weak, as soon as someone comes in and tries to make people accountable the toxic staff leave. It's a tale as old as time.
We'll get £60m for him in this market, people are acting like we've got to sell him for £10m because Ten Hag said something to the media after a game. West Ham bid £30m for Maguire in the summer and he's been fecking terrible for years. Sancho isn't playing because he can't get out of bed, there's a difference.
But Sancho is an absolute talent. No one can dribbles and passes the way he does on the left wing. So maybe some mediators should come in and help Sancho save his career at United.
I think we will be lucky to get 30M for him in January
We just paid £50m for Mount in the summer in his last year of a contract and coming off the back of an injury and shite form. We'll get decent money for Sancho in a January market where no one decent is available.
If Sancho goes to Juventus then they will properly rinse us. They will probably go for a loan with half of the salary paid by us and they might even have the cheek to add a ridiculously low option to buy clause to top it all. On top of that the Serie A is a highly rigid and disciplinarian league and Juve has a reputation of not being patient with freeloaders. Thus I was wondering if Nice is a better option. He would still be in house (sort off). If he does well then he might return home or be sold for better money. If not then feck it and we'll sell him at that point. The French league isn't the toughest in the world and Sancho would probably thrive there
I’m not “discussing” my point. I made a statement - and another poster replied with a not so witty edit, at which point I predicted a pointless exchange would occur.
You then quoted me saying something else entirely from what I said, and I replied to say - yeah well, that’s not what was asserted/contrasted. This should be pretty easy to follow, if you look up the posts.
I’ve not read the rest of your latest post beyond the point I just replied to, though.
That would suit your point so I didn't expect you to.
Came in here, made a statement, told everyone else there's no point in discussing your statement, refuses to read anyone elses discussion points, follows it up with more statements.
You must be really fun to converse with in real life.
They won't rinse us. The whole of Saudi Arabia will take him at £60m so why do we have to accept anything from Juventus that doesn't benefit us? I don't care if Sancho goes to Saudi for 2 years then leaves on a free to Italy after that, either way we don't have to sell him to Juve if we don't want to and if he wants to leave bad enough he'll take whatever offer we accept.
What if Sancho doesn't want to go to Saudi?
So you do understand that conversations should be fun, then? And that one can reserve the right to engage in what they want to?
Someone said a new manager would lose respect from fans if Sancho was given a new slate - and I said that happens all the time and I don’t think most reasonable people would hold that against a new manager - especially with United being constrained by FFP - and that the manager created this. Some people feel he didn’t, I said cool - I feel he did. What else do you want from me?
A pointless edit then followed, and then posts about random stuff I was not addressing - and now ad-hominem attacks because I don’t find exchanging essays about stuff I wasn’t discussing at 10am in the morning a fruitful endeavour. Your posts are just super emotional for no reason.
Sit on the bench for a couple of seasons or play in Saudi for a couple seasons. Up to him isn't it.
The manager creating this problem is certainly a take.
It is isn't the player who can't be arsed in training, turns up late, plays shit when given the chance.
It was the manager for saying why he wasn't in a squad because of those things when asked.
If he said nothing - the press would have asked weekly and Sancho would have tweeted
If he said he was injured - Sancho would have tweeted
If he pretended he didn't speak English and ignored the question - Sancho would have tweeted
So basically some want the player to do as he pleases and nobody can say anything about it. I could maybe understand if he was a big game match winning player that was worth the hassle and baggage. But it's Jadon Sancho. He probably quits at half time if he's losing on FIFA when he plays it.
It is isn't the player who can't be arsed in training, turns up late, plays shit when given the chance.
It was the manager for saying why he wasn't in a squad because of those things when asked.
If he said nothing - the press would have asked weekly and Sancho would have tweeted
If he said he was injured - Sancho would have tweeted
If he pretended he didn't speak English and ignored the question - Sancho would have tweeted
So basically some want the player to do as he pleases and nobody can say anything about it. I could maybe understand if he was a big game match winning player that was worth the hassle and baggage. But it's Jadon Sancho. He probably quits at half time if he's losing on FIFA when he plays it.
I prefer value as a player ove value for money, and this lad has none.
Back when everyone wanted to surround Sancho to give him a hug I was one of the very few to say that the situation was unsustainable. No one is happy to pay 300k a week to someone not producing the goods. Turned out that I was right all along and shit did hit fan much to my regret. The same will happen if head to that path. The club is heavily in debt, we've got a proper straight jacket known as FFP and we can't afford to let Sancho go on cheap/let him rot and then bring an adequate replacement.
We're joined to the hip with Sancho thanks to a crazy contract so we need him to succeed irrespective if he does it with us (in which case we gain a top player) or with another club (in which case he'll be sold). Failure will mean that he'll do a Jones and stay here till the end of his contract much to the detriment of our future plans. I very much doubt Juve is a good fit for him. Its a disciplinarian club, who doesn't take shit lightly, whose not doing very well lately and whose got a history of taking clubs to the cleaners. Nice on the other hand fits in the small club criteria were Sancho had traditionally thrived and the French league is more attacking minded then both the Serie A and the EPL. The chances of him thriving there are, in my opinion, higher.
Having said that if Saudi wants to spend good money on him and he is somehow persuaded to go there then by all means, let them be our guest.
Dunno if we’ll get 60 because of wages (unless Saudi come in…which they may), but I agree with your larger point. It definitely is possible to limit our losses more than people think.
No intention of discussing the actual thread title but instead doubling down on statements made about not discussing the topic at hand.
I simply asked questions to your logic surrounding "the manager created this mess" and then you went on to explain how a discussion works and how you didn't want to be part of one. I don't want anything from you, if you don’t want to discuss then simply don't reply. You weren't addressing anything mate, and if you think my posts are emotional or you're being attacked then you're really struggling with the concept of a forum, and it speaks volumes as to why you've sided with Sancho on this one.
He'll have to take a pay cut no matter where he goes unless its Saudi Arabia so that shouldn't change the fee for us.
I agree he'll have to take a wage cut, but there's a question of how much of a cut he's willing to take vs. impact on fee. If he's only willing to go to 250k / week, we might have trouble getting to 60k. I mean you may be right, but I just think there is a natural tension there given his current wages. If it ends up being a European club (implying a wage cut), I'd bet we'd end up between 45k on the fee plus some bonuses.
Jonathan from purchasing department can dribble better than Sancho.
Well something has to give because no one in Europe is going to look at him and say he’s worth £300k a week based on his performances, and there’s no reason as to why we should subsidise that salary if he leaves for Europe. Him and his team must also accept that he’s not a £250k+ player and he’ll do well to get around £200k a week when he does go, but I’d expect lower if I were him.
This isn’t a Sanchez situation either, he’s still got miles in him and someone will fancy getting something out of him here. I think the tension is on his side, he’s not training, he’s not playing. His salary only goes further down the more he’s out of the limelight
I wasn’t discussing the thread title - I replied to a specific poster about something specific. You seem confused about this and it’s like why you go on tangents non-related to what I was talking about and then make remarks about “topic at hand”. Let’s get back on track.
You didn’t ask anything pertaining what I stated. You asked questions about “is a manager not allowed to abc?” And “managers can xyz”, which was never contested - in fact, I said they’re often lauded and successful for it. How is that mutually exclusive with my initial assertion? Or with my belief that the manager created this?
Yes, your posts are emotional. And, yes “You must be really fun to converse with in real life.” is an ad-hominem attack.
“sided with Sancho”? Recognising that the manager created this situation means I think Sancho’s response was right? Something can be explainable without being justifiable, you know that, right?
and I’m replying to you because each time you quote me - I get an alert for it. Clearly you want something from me - as you engaged this exchange.
Do you reckon SAF had this skill? How many times did players have a fall out with him?
Would you rather we'd kept Veron or Stam over SAF?
If it means we learn from the mistake, I'm fine with it. He wasn't ten Hags signing and the attitude he brings isn't welcome, so if we lose out in a monetary sense but gain from the standards being instilled, I'm all for it.
I can definitely see him sitting on the bench until he finds a move that he likes.
He'd destroy his career. It's all well saying he's getting paid loads to sit on the bench but you're a long time retired when you retire at 21. He'd never play for a top club or receive a top salary again past the next couple of years if he doesn't get out and play some football at a top level.