Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
All nuance flies out the window when United fans talk about Sancho and Ten Hag.
I dont believe there is a simple he was right and he was wrong scenario.
Sancho is a player who seems to need special soroundings to work, and we he has them he is a fantastic player at times.
Ten Hag is a manager that demands certain things from his players and is extremely strict. Those two where probably always going to be a bad cocktail.
Yes he sent Sancho to the netherlands but to do what? None of us really know.
Rangnicks comments dont really help here either because he isnt as strict as Ten Hag.
There is also the issue of playing style. The style we played while Sancho has been here really doesnt suit him and he doesnt suit that, especially Ten Hags chaotic transition ping pong shite is a terrible fit. Funny enough its a terrible fit for quite a few of our players which is why a lot of them look like shite.
Another issue is the fullbacks. The current version of Dalot would work very well with Sancho, but we havent really seen him before this season. AwB was always a bad combo with Sancho as the ladder is really reliant on a full back that makes overlapping runs and that are offensively somewhat sound.
Either way there is zero chance Sancho and Ten hag will ever work together. It would be nice if Ten hag would shut the feck up and not ruin the potential for a good sale for Sancho but he is stubborn.
If we get a Tuchel in and a less chaotic system we might actually see the Dormund Sancho play for United. Heck we might even see Rashford back to his best. I wouldnt mind that. This whole notion of player power and failing managers lacks the context that we havent had any clear style of idea as a club since Ferguson left.
We have had vastly different managers come in who couldnt work with the previous managers players and thats why we ended up in this situation more than anything else.
If we stick with Ten Hag then we really need to sell Sancho as he is terrible in a Ten Hag system.
I dont believe there is a simple he was right and he was wrong scenario.
Sancho is a player who seems to need special soroundings to work, and we he has them he is a fantastic player at times.
Ten Hag is a manager that demands certain things from his players and is extremely strict. Those two where probably always going to be a bad cocktail.
Yes he sent Sancho to the netherlands but to do what? None of us really know.
Rangnicks comments dont really help here either because he isnt as strict as Ten Hag.
There is also the issue of playing style. The style we played while Sancho has been here really doesnt suit him and he doesnt suit that, especially Ten Hags chaotic transition ping pong shite is a terrible fit. Funny enough its a terrible fit for quite a few of our players which is why a lot of them look like shite.
Another issue is the fullbacks. The current version of Dalot would work very well with Sancho, but we havent really seen him before this season. AwB was always a bad combo with Sancho as the ladder is really reliant on a full back that makes overlapping runs and that are offensively somewhat sound.
Either way there is zero chance Sancho and Ten hag will ever work together. It would be nice if Ten hag would shut the feck up and not ruin the potential for a good sale for Sancho but he is stubborn.
If we get a Tuchel in and a less chaotic system we might actually see the Dormund Sancho play for United. Heck we might even see Rashford back to his best. I wouldnt mind that. This whole notion of player power and failing managers lacks the context that we havent had any clear style of idea as a club since Ferguson left.
We have had vastly different managers come in who couldnt work with the previous managers players and thats why we ended up in this situation more than anything else.
If we stick with Ten Hag then we really need to sell Sancho as he is terrible in a Ten Hag system.
Why would it be surprising? Pretty much every United fan who has seen the absolute mediocre performances that Sancho has put in across 2 full seasons have been unhappy with his performances. Now I am firmly in the sell Antony camp, yet even I can see that when given the choice between a winger who doesn't really offer much going forward as well as defensively (in Sancho) and a winger who doesn't really offer much going forward but puts in a shift defensively (in Antony) why EtH would choose Antony. Lets also be clear Antony's output for us and Sancho's output for us is nothing to write home about.
In terms of surprising, the only thing I'm confused at is why certain fans find it surprising that a player who has had discipline issues at both City and Dortmund has shockingly had discipline issues at United.
Let me get this right... you are wondering why Ronaldo's stats are better in the 27th ranked league in the world when compared to his stats in the no 1 ranked league in the world?
He's not exactly setting the Bundesliga alight either, 12 games, 2 goals, 2 assistsThis new narrative being driven that we somehow pushed out a gem of a player is driving me mad. The amount of opposition fans that have said to me we messed up bad and its on Ten Hag.
Has everyone forgotten how poor he was for us and are just ignoring all the discipline issues, and the fact the club and the manager gave the lad 3 months off!?
I think Sancho just cant hack the Premier League's level. When you combine that with the attitude of a spoilt brat, your gonna get predictable results. I barely even consider him a Utd player anymore
Jadon Sancho - Stats 23/24 (Detailed view) | Transfermarkt
Sancho wasn't dropped because of his match performance, he was dropped because of his training performance, EtH was asked why Sancho isn't in the squad and he said he picked squad based on training performance.
Nothing to do with match performance, not that it strengthens any party arguments here as Sancho was consistent and consistently shit, EtH picks Antony when he is just crap.
Nothing to do with match performance, not that it strengthens any party arguments here as Sancho was consistent and consistently shit, EtH picks Antony when he is just crap.
Which were so severe that Guardiola wanted to keep him, Dortmund gladly took him back and Rangnick is on record saying that there were no disciplinary issues with Sancho when he was his coach. But here we are with people talking with utter conviction about how Sancho pull one all nighter after the other to play Fortnite as if they've witnessed it first hand and tlak about how he was always late to training. Parallel realities in here. Who cares about evidence when you can shit on a player, right?
So in other words... he did have discipline/unprofessionalism issues. If the goal is to set the right culture do you believe that his attitude and mentality is the type of player to be playing for Manchester United? If he acted the same way under SAF would this even be a discussion.Which were so severe that Guardiola wanted to keep him, Dortmund gladly took him back and Rangnick is on record saying that there were no disciplinary issues with Sancho when he was his coach. But here we are with people talking with utter conviction about how Sancho pull one all nighter after the other to play Fortnite as if they've witnessed it first hand and tlak about how he was always late to training. Parallel realities in here. Who cares about evidence when you can shit on a player, right?
Forums lost the plot on this one, it's okay to say both Sancho and ETH fecked up here but it's like a large portion of posters are incapable....Which were so severe that Guardiola wanted to keep him, Dortmund gladly took him back and Rangnick is on record saying that there were no disciplinary issues with Sancho when he was his coach. But here we are with people talking with utter conviction about how Sancho pull one all nighter after the other to play Fortnite as if they've witnessed it first hand and tlak about how he was always late to training. Parallel realities in here. Who cares about evidence when you can shit on a player, right?
You wouldn't have heard about it..... That's what you're missing. Do you think things like this haven't happened through the years? At many clubs? We just don't hear about it as it gets handled behind close doors so there's no narrative for social media to latch onto and turn into big story....
We literally had a stand off play out through the media, and fans lapped it up too
Actually I'm pretty convinced that under SAF the situation never would have gotten to that point, as I rate his man-management skills far higher than EtH's. I fully believe there would have been a solution before it became necessary to drop Sancho from the squad.You wouldn't have heard about it..... That's what you're missing. Do you think things like this haven't happened through the years? At many clubs? We just don't hear about it as it gets handled behind close doors so there's no narrative for social media to latch onto and turn into big story....
We literally had a stand off play out through the media, and fans lapped it up too
I'd probably go one further and say we wouldn't have heard about it as SAF might not have bought him based on his unprofessionalism!You wouldn't have heard about it..... That's what you're missing. Do you think things like this haven't happened through the years? At many clubs? We just don't hear about it as it gets handled behind close doors so there's no narrative for social media to latch onto and turn into big story....
We literally had a stand off play out through the media, and fans lapped it up too
Yup
Sancho’s having his purple patch just like our team did during Ole’s interim period. Being him back ETH or no ETH eventually the same problems will resurface down the road. Hopefully Wilcox, Ashworth and everyone coming in under the new structure see it unlike some of our fans.
No point getting aeriated about ignorant oppo fans/media trying to spin something out of nothing.
Much rather they take the piss and we get rid of Sancho asap for as much money as possible, and see him back to hitting big numbers in the farmers league, than put up with any more games watching him play like lazy Poundland Lingard for us.
Much rather they take the piss and we get rid of Sancho asap for as much money as possible, and see him back to hitting big numbers in the farmers league, than put up with any more games watching him play like lazy Poundland Lingard for us.
By that definition every human being had discipline/professionalism issues at some point. But you guys make it sound as if he was somenout of form Twitch streamer who drinks energy drinks all night and wakes up at 2 pm. Completely blown out of proportion.
And who cares what SAF has done, he is in retirement for 10 years by now.
Definitely
Neither should be at the club next season
Never looked particularly good for Utd. That's probably largely down to the fact that his strengths seem to be around tight control, beating players in tight spaces, playing little through balls and one-two's in tight areas.
I don't think we've ever played in a way that allows him to be in areas of the pitch, or had players in support enough to do those kinds of things that often in a match.
He clearly doesn't do the defensive side of the game well, and isn't particularly quick or strong over long distances which is what we've relied on largely.
Dortmund wouldn't have taken him back if he was a nightmare so we don't really know what he and Ten Hag fell out about. There's no point in keeping him if we're not going to play in a way that suits him though, as he's not very versatile.
Would probably have taken him over the Rashford of this season. That's pure hindsight though.
I don't think we've ever played in a way that allows him to be in areas of the pitch, or had players in support enough to do those kinds of things that often in a match.
He clearly doesn't do the defensive side of the game well, and isn't particularly quick or strong over long distances which is what we've relied on largely.
Dortmund wouldn't have taken him back if he was a nightmare so we don't really know what he and Ten Hag fell out about. There's no point in keeping him if we're not going to play in a way that suits him though, as he's not very versatile.
Would probably have taken him over the Rashford of this season. That's pure hindsight though.
Sssh. Don't let facts get in way of some good agenda driven talk.
Still better than Eric's darling, who's got, 27 games, 1 goal, 1 assist.
Nice benchmark.
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Question though, why did ETH spend £86m on him when we had Garnacho Amad and Sancho.
No, that is not the question. This is an ETH vs Sancho thread. The whole attempt to bring in Antony as a talking point when it has nothing to do with Sancho's form or attitude is ridiculous.
Anyways, one of the reason why the Brazilian fidget spinner was bought was because the United scouts were a pathetic bunch who paid a ransom to get a RW from Dortmund, only for the player to declare he wants to compete only for the LW spot.
And Garnacho and Amad in 2022? Hindsight glasses?
It does though. Sanchos form looks better than Anthony's.
Good grief.
You spent the last 10 years wondering what Ferguson would have done in this or that situation. What worked for him doesn't necessarily work for his successors. As good as he was, he isn't your coach anymore, time to move on.
Having him back wouldn't bother me.
So Dortmund are on the cusp of a CL final by way of featuring two players United has rejected. If that isn't a flashing neon sign we need a new manager then nothing is.
Hope he gets a chance under a proper manager next season, both things won't happen though.
Last seasons finalists had three players that has been rejected by United too. Di Maria and Herrera had a CL final after leaving us as well. I think this is more something to hold against the club than a manager, but I get the frustration.
Not saying who is right or wrong, but did Brazilian Ronaldo even train in training session? If I remember correctly all his coaches said he was lazy and he just played and had fun in training. He never really train to improve. Mourinho said it in his interview for his time in Barcelona working with R9.
These posts make me chuckle, as if there aren't enough sticks to beat ETH with, we create some ludicrous takes.
First question I hope you will answer genuinely, are you just basing the view on Sabitzer off the game versus Atletico and the other day? Because he's not exactly been setting the world alight in the BL and we literally saw him here and he wasn't great. He also wants to play in a position we have loads of cover for AND fecked his knee so I'm sure we were somewhat hesitant to pay anything for him until we saw how he'd rehab. From memory ETH talked well of him anyway, I think there was just no appetite for that role from the club.
Re Sancho, it takes more than 1 or 2 good games to be a good player. Let's see how great he when Dortmund make an offer for his return, how desperate will they be?
Rio also said Tevez wasn't good in training but like everything, as long as you are good on pitch, everything is fine.
I don''t think ETH has the credibility among the players to act as a disciplinarian. The alleged problem Sancho had in training apparently doesn't seem to be an issue in Dortmund, which leads me to believe it all comes back to ETH's handling of the situation.
Seems to be a monumental dickhead and a poor signing.
EtH was right about him. Lad seems immature and it’s right to get rid of him.
EtH was right about him. Lad seems immature and it’s right to get rid of him.
Sorry but Sabitzer was mediocre at best in his time here and Sancho is quite obviously far better at Dortmund (both before and after United), so the common denominator is what transpired at United and who was responsible during that period. ETH is obviously not good enough in many other areas, but just because he's failing elsewhere doesn't mean this issue doesn't stick out like a conspicuous sore thumb either.
My thoughts exactly while watching the match. Sancho was simply brilliant and Sabitzer could have given us cover in midfield.
But has either even been that good for Dortmund? Sancho certainly hasn't, has Sabitzer? Or are you basing your view off 2 games?
I'm basing it on what I've seen of Sancho (primarily). Both players are showing up for Dortmund when it actually counts this late in the season.
Stats barely show that.
I see Sancho stats this year as pretty much a continuation of his seasons in Old Trafford.
Inter went all the way to the CL final last year and had several former United players too, who were discarded by a different manager.