Europe Refugee Crisis

Sir Matt

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Charlie Hebdo being a disgusting piece of shit, shocker really.

Looking forward idiotic hashtags from the mindless sheep.
:lol: Calm down. Much like the cartoon that people accused of racism on Boko Haram's kidnapping victims, the nuance of the cartoon is the key part of it. If you want to take it at face value, that's your own fault for misunderstanding or not bothering to understand the cartoon. It's a leftist satire magazine critiquing the response of Europe to the refugee crisis and the effects of that one picture--lots of outrage but little action. In the magazine, there's an editorial explaining this, but I imagine reading is too difficult for people who dearly want to be offended by something.

Is this making fun of a dead child? No, it's criticizing the FNP and Le Pen for their bigotry. Just as the others are targeted at Europe, rather than the refugees.
 

Kostur

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:lol: Calm down. Much like the cartoon that people accused of racism on Boko Haram's kidnapping victims, the nuance of the cartoon is the key part of it. If you want to take it at face value, that's your own fault for misunderstanding or not bothering to understand the cartoon. It's a leftist satire magazine critiquing the response of Europe to the refugee crisis and the effects of that one picture--lots of outrage but little action. In the magazine, there's an editorial explaining this, but I imagine reading is too difficult for people who dearly want to be offended by something.

Is this making fun of a dead child? No, it's criticizing the FNP and Le Pen for their bigotry. Just as the others are targeted at Europe, rather than the refugees.
I quite simply find mockery that uses a dead child highly inappropriate and disgusting but this shite leftist rag has a long history of spitting on various values thus my lack of astonishment.

It's not really a case of 'misunderstanding or not bothering to understand the cartoon', there are just some borders that should not be crossed and this piece of shit constantly does it. Edgy like a 10 year old kid on 4chan.
 

Desert Eagle

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Yeah a drawing of a dead kid is super edgy just like 4chan. I wonder if your outrage extends to the millions of other magazines, movies, tv shows etc that show dead kids as part of entertainment or to make a point. I imagine watching Battle Royale might cause your head to spontaneously combust.
 

Desert Eagle

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Tasteless or tactless is subjective. Are the graffiti artists who sprayed the image all around the world tasteless? At least this image is trying to make a bigger point beyond emo-porn. I agree it's purposely shocking, as a lot of things( especially art) that inspire debate and discussion are.
 

maniak

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It's normal for people to feel for these migrants on some level; the problem is that as soon as you welcome in 10,000 or 500,000 then next year there'll be 5M of them, and so on. There is no end to this as long as the problems exist in their home countries.
And the populations there keep growing, thereby producing even more migrants. Soon all of the European countries would be swamped with migrants and their own ability to provide for them - and their own people - would be stretched too far. I suppose if you take it to extremes, the European countries would become so poor as to stop the migrations.
So more than having a moral responsibility to help fix things in poor countries, we now have a necessity to do so. I don't think there's an easy solution but doinf what Hungary is doing is just not acceptable. Sure, we have to try and stop it this, but never by sacrificing some of these migrants.

I don't think we will ever get to the point you are suggesting because real necessity will force us to do something that will prevent it.
 

maniak

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Don´t say that too loud, if not in two days half West Africa will be climbing on a boat towards Algarve. The official version is "welcome refugees ," but as @barros said unemployed people (24%) is not very happy. In the school of my son the most honest parents have said they are not willing to be with 100 euros in the pocket, mid-month , for family finances while a foreigner gets social helps for school dinning room or rent a house, and of course, nobody wants to see a mosque.
In the images I´ve seen on Tv were old people and children ( wouldn´t be better for them to go to some Arabic speaking countries? ) but also much smartass who want to live well in Europe
A few years ago the portuguese government ordered a study to see the impact of african and brazilian migrants in Portugal and the results were like for each euro we spent in social help, these migrants contributed 4 euros in taxes and social security (I'm rounding numbers, but it was something like that). Migration to Portugal is decreasing so I'm sure the situation is even less serious now.

The fact is in Portugal the vast majority of migrants manage to integrate themselves to a point they are no different from natives in terms of government help.

Personally I am willing to have lower standards of living if that means my community is helping other people improve theirs. I know I'm in a minority here but it's the way I think. And Portugal will receive 3000 migrants if the newspapers are right, I really doubt this will have any impact whatsoever in our public finances. As for them being muslim, I think there are around 100k muslims and Portugal and I can't remember a single news about religious crimes (except for a few months ago when some nazis vandalized a mosque, which was quickly solved by the local community, who helped the muslims clean in a matter of hours).

We have a history of integration, dating from the birth of the country, 9 centuries ago. I don't buy into this fear mongering, the past teaches us integration is possible and successful, why should it be different now?

I understand the problem is different for countries who have to receive a lot more people, I'm just focusing on the portuguese case.
 

botond

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So more than having a moral responsibility to help fix things in poor countries, we now have a necessity to do so. I don't think there's an easy solution but doinf what Hungary is doing is just not acceptable. Sure, we have to try and stop it this, but never by sacrificing some of these migrants.

I don't think we will ever get to the point you are suggesting because real necessity will force us to do something that will prevent it.
Sorry but you are wrong here . Hungary is doing nothing wrong . There is a official way to enter a country and ask for asylum and the office is open at the border at Röszke II . Around 140 people registered and got in . The rest wants to enter
the EU/Schengen unregistered undocumented witch is against the law .
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117161.html
 

maniak

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Sorry but you are wrong here . Hungary is doing nothing wrong . There is a official way to enter a country and ask for asylum and the office is open at the border at Röszke II . Around 140 people registered and got in . The rest wants to enter
the EU/Schengen unregistered undocumented witch is against the law .
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117161.html
Just because it's legal to use force against someone who is breaking a law doesn't make it right, especially if the person breaking the law is not an immediate threat and is carrying a baby or a small child. Some of the images coming from Hungary are absolutely disgusting.
 

botond

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Just because it's legal to use force against someone who is breaking a law doesn't make it right, especially if the person breaking the law is not an immediate threat and is carrying a baby or a small child. Some of the images coming from Hungary are absolutely disgusting.
yeah no , if you are a father\mother fleeing from war and are afraid for the well being of your family you walk in the asylum office like a normal person and get processed and protected . if you are something else then you bring your
kid in the front line of an escalated border stand of for click bait material on the daily
 

Mrs Smoker

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During an hour or so I watched the situation on border live yesterday, I've seen no child or woman there. Only men that threw rocks, broken concrete and other various assortment on the police. And then occasionally police firing back that water cannon to the people that got to some five meters from them.

Not to say they haven't been harmed somewhere else, in some other time of day.
 

maniak

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yeah no , if you are a father\mother fleeing from war and are afraid for the well being of your family you walk in the asylum office like a normal person and get processed and protected . if you are something else then you bring your
kid in the front line of an escalated border stand of for click bait material on the daily
Because when you are in a foreign land, you don't know anyone or the language, you think you're doing something illegal (most refugees don't know about these offices) and you are focused primarily in protecting your children I'm sure you will act logically at all times and keep your cool.

You are talking as if these people are on some planned trip but they are just making it up as they go. They're bound to break laws.
 

maniak

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During an hour or so I watched the situation on border live yesterday, I've seen no child or woman there. Only men that threw rocks, broken concrete and other various assortment on the police. And then occasionally police firing back that water cannon to the people that got to some five meters from them.

Not to say they haven't been harmed somewhere else, in some other time of day.
The BBC guy there filmed a mother washing her baby's face after the police threw tear gas at a crowd. One of many cases. Sure after a few minutes women and children run away and you end up seeing only youth staying in confrontation with the police throwing rocks, but if you see any confrontation from the start, you will see many women and children being targeted.
 

botond

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Because when you are in a foreign land, you don't know anyone or the language, you think you're doing something illegal (most refugees don't know about these offices) and you are focused primarily in protecting your children I'm sure you will act logically at all times and keep your cool.

You are talking as if these people are on some planned trip but they are just making it up as they go. They're bound to break laws.
it is possible but still the asylum office is right there 10 minutes walk distance , interestingly the bangladeshi who got rejected today found it

http://imgur.com/PzhIFAS
 

holyland red

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A few years ago the portuguese government ordered a study to see the impact of african and brazilian migrants in Portugal and the results were like for each euro we spent in social help, these migrants contributed 4 euros in taxes and social security (I'm rounding numbers, but it was something like that). Migration to Portugal is decreasing so I'm sure the situation is even less serious now.

The fact is in Portugal the vast majority of migrants manage to integrate themselves to a point they are no different from natives in terms of government help.

Personally I am willing to have lower standards of living if that means my community is helping other people improve theirs. I know I'm in a minority here but it's the way I think. And Portugal will receive 3000 migrants if the newspapers are right, I really doubt this will have any impact whatsoever in our public finances. As for them being muslim, I think there are around 100k muslims and Portugal and I can't remember a single news about religious crimes (except for a few months ago when some nazis vandalized a mosque, which was quickly solved by the local community, who helped the muslims clean in a matter of hours).

We have a history of integration, dating from the birth of the country, 9 centuries ago. I don't buy into this fear mongering, the past teaches us integration is possible and successful, why should it be different now?

I understand the problem is different for countries who have to receive a lot more people, I'm just focusing on the portuguese case.


;)
 

maniak

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it is possible but still the asylum office is right there 10 minutes walk distance , interestingly the bangladeshi who got rejected today found it
If they think that by going to official authorities they will send them back, of course they'll try to avoid them. We just don't know what they know, what kind of information they were given by the trafficants or the general mindset in those large groups.

Sure they could behave better at times, but there's no justification to throw tear gas at crowds with lots of women and children.
 

maniak

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I'm sure we managed to kill people from every group you can imagine, but comparatively Portugal was never as bad as many other countries, or at least not as brutal. I'm not saying we're special or anything, but we were always very mild regarding other non-white non-christian groups. There are of course exceptions.
 

botond

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If they think that by going to official authorities they will send them back, of course they'll try to avoid them. We just don't know what they know, what kind of information they were given by the trafficants or the general mindset in those large groups.

Sure they could behave better at times, but there's no justification to throw tear gas at crowds with lots of women and children.
syrians wont get sent back they get asylum and about the kids and woman this is the video moments before the police used gas for the first time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=50&v=RfrpwAEMe0c
not many women and children around as you see . then there was a false rumor spread that woman and children will be let thru and after they got to the front man provoked the police again . also 2 children where thrown over the fence , where transported to the hospital
 

holyland red

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I'm sure we managed to kill people from every group you can imagine, but comparatively Portugal was never as bad as many other countries, or at least not as brutal. I'm not saying we're special or anything, but we were always very mild regarding other non-white non-christian groups. There are of course exceptions.
I'm not here for judging the Portuguese, but couldn't resist correcting that historical inaccuracy...
 

maniak

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syrians wont get sent back they get asylum and about the kids and woman this is the video moments before the police used gas for the first time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=50&v=RfrpwAEMe0c
not many women and children around as you see . then there was a false rumor spread that woman and children will be let thru and after they got to the front man provoked the police again . also 2 children where thrown over the fence , where transported to the hospital
You see that's my point. Information mixed with rumours. You can't blame people for not knowing what's going on most of the time.
 

botond

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You see that's my point. Information mixed with rumours. You can't blame people for not knowing what's going on most of the time.
in this case i agree completely , but about not knowing where the reg. office is i cant because its well known that they don't want to get registered in hungary or any eastern europe country
 

milemuncher777

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Answer these:

1. Where are you from?
2. Where do you reside?
3. Do you live in the same town as your great grandparents do?
He's from Transylvania, Romania and afaik he doesn't live there anymore. So answer to your second and third question is probably No. :smirk:
 
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maniak

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in this case i agree completely , but about not knowing where the reg. office is i cant because its well known that they don't want to get registered in hungary or any eastern europe country
OK, that's probably happening in many cases. I understand the legal argument but I can't really blame people for wanting to go to a richer country. Hungary is hardly the dream destination.
 

maniak

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botond

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Generalizations are very dangerous. If you randomly pick 7000 people from any city in the world you will get a majority of nice decent people and a few thugs.
true and agree , the point here is that many other then syrians are jumping on the bandwagon and seeking asylum . witch is bad because slows the process for the syrians , germany has a backlog witch can take a year , or takes a place of a syrian
 

milemuncher777

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sounds to me like you don't know what you are talking about , i don't have romanian nationality
Mistake there you see is I still don't have a bloody clue how tall you are or what you weigh!!! Could someone do the honours please for a poor English uneducated sod :angel:

Romania eh, people will be accusing you of being Vlad and Redbunny next...

Which country you live now?
:lol:

i live in Romania,Transylvania but im not Vlad or RB ;)

Where you from botond?
Transylvania , its part of Romania now , once belong to Hungary

so i moved to Munich

Wo ist das?

Und lebst du schon lange in Muenchen?
Das ist in Budapest , sie lebd da .
Und ich bin siet januar in Muenchen und liebe es .
......