To give an olive branch to Barca and Madrid now, after years of them bullying other clubs into selling their best players, using underhand tactics, it would be wrong. Let them reap what they have sewn
European Super League
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
this summer was EXACTLY what Perez wanted/needed.
just cruise the twitter and you'll see how so, so many folks have suddenly changed their opinion on the Super League. Not just regular fans, but the media who swore against it.
It will happen, in some form or another. And soon.
just cruise the twitter and you'll see how so, so many folks have suddenly changed their opinion on the Super League. Not just regular fans, but the media who swore against it.
It will happen, in some form or another. And soon.
Aye, equal my arse.
And we only know half of it with the wages due to how those sneaky fecks have “financed it”. We do know PSG offered Neymar so much money that it rattled Barca to near bankruptcy with the Messi deal.
Only way for many clubs to compete long term is more revenue, much more. And some way to rein in the oil states.
The hypocrisy of both clubs is astounding. Back in late 90s-early00s when you had clubs like Deportivo and Valencia who were both still competitive in La Liga and Europe, the big 2 negotiated the new La Liga TV deal which would make them earn over 100m €(50% of the pie) each season while the rest of the clubs would get scraps. Meaning from 2001/02 till 2015-16 each of the clubs pocketed in over 1.5billion€
Karma is a bitch
Karma is a bitch
Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid President, has just arrived in Barcelona.
Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]
Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made
Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]
Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made
They're deluded...
It's so unpopular with English fans now it'll never fly.
They fecked it by dropping the idea like a bomb without discussing it first
Even if it's legal and they modify it with merit based qualification or other ways to just make it a better champions league.
Salary/transfer cap
Punitive taxes on excessive spending
Credits for youth players integrated into first team squads
Limiting squad sizes
Eliminate/severely restrict the loan system
Kick non-champions out of CL
Strict penalties for financial misrepresentation
Won't happen though. Long live our Emirate overlords then.
Which is why the ESL was so attractive to many like Barca and Real. UEFA and the FA's have had 2 decades to rein in the oil peeps, and either give zero fecks or barely even try. They believed the ESL gave them opportunity to actual bring in some of the rules you mentioned to make the playing field more even.
Kicking non Champions out of CL sounds like a fecking terrible idea, which would just push the demand for the ESL.
They genuinely don't understand football culture here. We have no interest. If they push again people will destroy stadiums
Unless the alternative is a worse option.
Is it in England, though?
The Super League in its original format is dead, and I don't understand how could they convince the English clubs to participate after what happened.
Only way this would work is if it's something like a summer tournament, with far less games than originally planned, which won't bring anywhere near the money they initially expected, and will feel like glorified friendless.
Only way this would work is if it's something like a summer tournament, with far less games than originally planned, which won't bring anywhere near the money they initially expected, and will feel like glorified friendless.
Just imagining an hypothetical scenario where it would be preferable for English clubs to be in the Superleague rather than being out of it.
Not for England. We are cool. It's the Spanish clubs who are struggling.
The super league without the Premier league teams or bundersliga teams is dead in the water anyway.
There is no worse option for English sides. This league will become the super league in all but name within 3 years IMO.
I see your point, but wouldn't it have been better for English teams already from an economic point of view?
The current Rumours in Spain is that they want to give the first 8 Places in the Premier League a Spot in the league. This will ensure the Big 6 will almost guarantee be in it even if they have a bad Season and also give other Teams a place to join
English clubs chose the best option for their interests.
The scenario I talk about is one where it is so obvious being out of the Superleague is so detrimental to the clubs that even fans and politicians would acknowledge so very quickly.
How would that situation come about without them in the first place?
That scenario doesn't exist
The ESL is all about money. It will never take off without the top English clubs. Why do you think it totally fell to pieces as soon as the English teams withdrew? You don't get the Germans if the English are not on board, they are even more fan centric than the English clubs. The Italian giants haven't been relevant on the world stage for a long while now and Juve appear to be on a downward trajectory as well. Barca and Real are still big names but can they shoulder it all on their own? because no one cares about the French teams.
There is no ESL without the English clubs and that is why, if current rumours are to be believed, they are bending over backwards for the English clubs to get them to rejoin.
After the initial fiasco, the English clubs will have to totally break their relationship with the fans to rejoin and that my friend is not happening in England and Germany. Stadiums will burn.
There might be several changes made to the initial plans to make it more palatable but it m afraid the harm has already been done.
There is no ESL without the English clubs and that is why, if current rumours are to be believed, they are bending over backwards for the English clubs to get them to rejoin.
After the initial fiasco, the English clubs will have to totally break their relationship with the fans to rejoin and that my friend is not happening in England and Germany. Stadiums will burn.
There might be several changes made to the initial plans to make it more palatable but it m afraid the harm has already been done.
UEFA and the FA's had decades to create a game that would have no opportunities for blue bloods or oil clubs to dominate. The ESL was an awful way of solving the problem, and actually proving the oil clubs right: all the top clubs only became concerned once their place of privilege was threatened.
It's a terrible idea for top clubs who use perennial top 4 positions and CL money to entrench their positions. For the game, it would be fantastic.
They can do whatever the feck they like.
Hate to say it, but I think the teams should have the right to form any league they want without penalty from any organizing body. I don't see how these restrictions hold up legally, Even if United signed an eternal contract to the league I don't think that should be possible, like you can't sign over your freedom to someone.
That being said, any "Super" League should be designed with fan input and meet their approval.
If some kind of SL replaced the Champion's League, and we stayed in the EPL, it could work. I would be willing to see United play a B side in the League Cup in order to send the A team to the SL for a game on the same weekend/midweek. And half the FA Cup games would only require the B team as well.
But there has to be relegation from the SL. You could be exempt if you win your league, since it would be the winners coming into the SL if they weren't in there already.
And Perez can't be President! Horrible idea.
That being said, any "Super" League should be designed with fan input and meet their approval.
If some kind of SL replaced the Champion's League, and we stayed in the EPL, it could work. I would be willing to see United play a B side in the League Cup in order to send the A team to the SL for a game on the same weekend/midweek. And half the FA Cup games would only require the B team as well.
But there has to be relegation from the SL. You could be exempt if you win your league, since it would be the winners coming into the SL if they weren't in there already.
And Perez can't be President! Horrible idea.
This needs pointing out more. The Spanish big two ruined their own league with that deal. Good on the rest of La Liga for wanting a fairer deal.
I'm surprised this is still "on". Well, desperate clubs are desperate, I guess. Maybe this would have had a chance of working if it wasn't such a blatant cash grab from the beggining.
Now RB&J (PS: I call dibs on the acronym) are facing a "Big fish in a small pond" scenario they also helped create, in which they are too big to share the profits of their original federations, not big enough to mobilize big teams from other federations, and too few to just compete on their own. They also just lost the CR7 vs. Messi marketing hook and, since their finances are a shambles, they're running against the clock.
Now RB&J (PS: I call dibs on the acronym) are facing a "Big fish in a small pond" scenario they also helped create, in which they are too big to share the profits of their original federations, not big enough to mobilize big teams from other federations, and too few to just compete on their own. They also just lost the CR7 vs. Messi marketing hook and, since their finances are a shambles, they're running against the clock.
That's a fair point, the EPL is getting so big, Arsenal used to coast into the top 4 with teams the top clubs often dominated. They still have a very expensive roster and is only good for 8th! 5 more years in this direction and the EPL will be a Super League!
But United can have both, play a revamped CL/SL and stay in the EPL.
Is there a benefit to all this oil money as it comes into the game, gives money to for ex Villa who then give it to Norwich and Bayer etc? Or is my thinking wrong?
Imagine thinking big football clubs are good guys and they trying to stop these evil few, now thats funny.
PL rules have been changed so a ESL would have to happen without PL cubs. Its a awful idea that no one wants. Besides we have a super league in the new CL format from 2024 onwards.
I'm going to answer because I've been cited. I'm not surprised you know nothing about this theme and that you prefer to blindly blame Barça/Real.
In the 90's (even in the first years of the XXI century), TV and merchandising money wasn't as important as it is right now, it explains by itself some differences... and...
- 1995: Bosman Law. Until that year, teams were able to easily keep their main players because of this limitations. This is the main reasons why you don't see anymore surprises from countries like Romania.
- 1996-97: Digital TV expansion. Sport rights were the main objective of them. The "1st World of (spanish) football" took place. These companies started to bid up for LaLiga rights. Teams like Valencia, Deportivo, Sevilla, etc. were the main interested in individual negotiations because they though they could get more money... and they did. TV rights increased 500% in that season, you hear that right, 500% increase. Teams overspended and "La Liga de las estrellas" ("the league of the stars" was born). For a few years Deportivo, Valencia, etc. were able to spend a lot of money and they had good results in Spain and Europe.
- Early 2000's: these companies were losing money and the new TV rights deal was worse... but every team kept negotiating by themselves because it is what medium teams wanted a few years ago. Barça and Real still had interest, fans and money and they thrived. Deportivo almost went bankrupt, like Valencia and many others. In the late 90's and early 2000's tons of teams disappeared/were relegated because of their financials were unsustainable without the TV money.
- 2015: rights were finally sold in a package.
So yeah... karma is a bitch that brought Deportivo to the Third Division because they wanted to negotiate their rights alone.
Even with the massively fecked up rollout, this will happen eventually and the oil clubs are just speeding the process by spending everybody onto the ground.
Sentiment in Spain and Italy has rapidly turned pro-Super League. Germany won’t be that far behind once Bayern supporters eventually figure out that they can’t compete with PSG, City, and Chelsea anymore.
It’s also ultimately a good deal for English clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, and maybe United. Once they figure out a way to sell it to supporters as an alternative to a status quo in which only oligarchs and sport washing dictatorships can win, they’ll come on board too. Even if all English clubs collectively resist, if the top clubs in all the other leagues except PSG do form a new league, the English clubs will quickly cave and join. The alternative is just competing among themselves in “European” competition and that’s a joke.
There’s just no future in a model dominated by oil clubs that don’t even have big loyal supporter bases. Eventually people will get fed up and then the politicians will support change as well.
Sentiment in Spain and Italy has rapidly turned pro-Super League. Germany won’t be that far behind once Bayern supporters eventually figure out that they can’t compete with PSG, City, and Chelsea anymore.
It’s also ultimately a good deal for English clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, and maybe United. Once they figure out a way to sell it to supporters as an alternative to a status quo in which only oligarchs and sport washing dictatorships can win, they’ll come on board too. Even if all English clubs collectively resist, if the top clubs in all the other leagues except PSG do form a new league, the English clubs will quickly cave and join. The alternative is just competing among themselves in “European” competition and that’s a joke.
There’s just no future in a model dominated by oil clubs that don’t even have big loyal supporter bases. Eventually people will get fed up and then the politicians will support change as well.
Just read Balague's article on the BBC about Messi - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58157038
In it he mentions Joan Laporta being spotted in a Barcelona restaurant along with Florentino Perez and Andrea Agnelli. Given that neither RM or FCB seem willing to vote in favour of the CVC investment into La Liga, it looks very much like they're still intent on pursuing the ESL regardless. Not sure how they anticipate getting anywhere without Premier League club involvement, buy they're clearly still plotting something.
In it he mentions Joan Laporta being spotted in a Barcelona restaurant along with Florentino Perez and Andrea Agnelli. Given that neither RM or FCB seem willing to vote in favour of the CVC investment into La Liga, it looks very much like they're still intent on pursuing the ESL regardless. Not sure how they anticipate getting anywhere without Premier League club involvement, buy they're clearly still plotting something.
If the ESL was designed by clubs to get more money in order to compete with oil clubs. Then those oil clubs participating in ESL would also give them money.
Warming to the idea of it. Obviously plenty of problems how they announced it and a lot of issues with how it was going to work but I don't see a future without it. Psg, city, and Chelsea are ruining the sport and something drastic has to change. People can stick to the status quo because of culture but I think the quicker people accept the idea of a super league (with loads of changes) the better it will be for the future. City and psg specifically aren't being held accountable.. Uefa and fifa won't do it. Someone has to
If it was to counter the oil spending, why would they invite city in? City will just be richer still and ruin football more.
Any competition involving Man City loses it's prestige. Every time they carve their name on the PL Trophy, it becomes less desirable.
Because you can admit some defeat in that the oil clubs are actually successful clubs and valuable members of said ESL but also have the ESL have rules which would limit their spending to other members in the league.
or because to join you had to agree to certain rules which prevent clubs from losing money.
Bit like NBA. So something like Salary cap , transfers regulations of players between the teams, ESL buying players from outside the league and handle them bit like NBA (again you know rookies?)
That was behind the SL.
Italian and spanish clubs need it.
English can stay on their crazy tv money but none else can.
You mean Top Spanish and Italian clubs
I think the Messi and Kane deals are really helping fans get onboard with the ESL. My guess is we will have it with in the next 5 years.