The Firestarter
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Only reason that Tottenham were invited was because of Pochettino
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Only reason that Tottenham were invited was because of Pochettino
Free wine and cheese from their cheese roomI personally hate the idea of it, but as the title of the thread asks.. why are Spurs invited?
If it was just a point, it would be negotiated behind the curtains. This is too public now. I think the decision is taken.Yeah it sounds terrible. It's a threat to UEFA, I don't think they can actually follow through with the terms. It's absolutely ridiculous. They tried to make a point today.
Whilst this is ridiculous, it's hardly as if this isn't already an issue? The ESL is just making it more centralised. You got teams in the EPL getting relegated who probably get a higher payout than some teams winning their leagues.Taken from James Corbett on twitter, who claims to have seen a copy of the "Super League Document".
- The plan would guarantee massive income to a 15 club elite and cement financial gaps not only between those competing in the Super league and those not, but within it. The plan envisages one off payments of up to €350 million to the fifteen founder members, but only six clubs would receive the full amount with five of the initial members receiving just €100 or €112.5 million.
- The 15 breakaway clubs have generously deigned to allow 5 merit based qualifiers each season. But the system is totally skewed against them. They have no say in running the Super League and are entirely excluded from a commercial pot worth 15% of income. Moreover, there is an 'equal' share of revenue that is not equal at all. The qualifiers are excluded from half of this pot of money (worth around €1.85 BILLION)
- At the same time, the organisers have shown their contempt for rewarding sporting success. You get given a ton of money for playing (about €180m for the group stage), but prize money is quite small - worth perhaps €30m extra for winning it. Which is small change, really. If you win the Champions League, by contrast, you earn about €120million - or 300% more than just making the group stage
- At the same time, if, say Leicester or Everton, were to qualify and actually win it - despite everything being skewed against them - they would earn around half the amount Barca or Real would be guaranteed JUST FOR COMPETING IN THE GROUP STAGE. Essentially this has been devised by a cabal of greedy, stupid and desperate individuals who care nothing about football, competitiveness or the sustainability of the game. It will kill domestic football and create a boring spectacle skewed in favour of a Super League 'big 6
That's very possible, but I wonder how much of an effect the history and prestige of the Champion's League and the World Cup/Euro will weigh on the players' mind if it really comes down to UEFA/FIFA banning all players in the ESL clubs from those competitions.Assuming this gets off the ground, those major clubs won't be able to say no. Sponsorships etc. are going to all flock to the ESL. There is just too large a potential payout with the ESL for clubs to ignore.
They will now qualify for a meaningless version of Champions League with most big teams not in it and got the qualification because the big clubs didn't care or play seriously for it. Nothing to celebrate or consider as an achievement like what Leicester or WHU would have considered if they manage it this season. CL will become a pointless competition, the "elites" have dominated the important one without earning it.They will have more of a chance to qualify for the champions league. The super league won't be the one and only competition, unless I've missed something?
Will the champions league and europa still exist, yes or no?
Will the super league clubs be excluded from entry, yes or no?
Does that mean other teams will qualify in their place, yes or no?
This is all I'm asking and all I'm considering is could this be good for those clubs, if the answers above are yes, yes and yes.
You're missing me completely, I'm suggesting this could mean those clubs actually do see European football. Rather than now where they can but likely won't ever qualify.
How many teams in the entire English football league have ever qualified for the champions league? How many teams have done it more than once? How many different teams have ever won the Premier League?
You're acting like this replaces all other competitions and the entry is barred. It's doesn't, it seems to add another layer and yes, that very top layer is closed off mostly but it actually then opens up space and competition in the other two.
It might not, I'm just considering it, stop straw manning me and making it out like I'm making arguments that I'm not. I've specifically said every time that I'm not arguing this is fact, I'm considering if it's possible and if so, are there potential upsides for other clubs that didn't exist before?
Not once have I said give a position to anyone for anything. At this point I have to think you're just not capable of having a conversation, you just don't read what's being said and can't form an appropriate response at all.
As much of an effect it has on players deciding to play for clubs like PSG and City... not too much imo, unfortunately. Money talks at the end of the day. The best players are going to want to best pay and the best platform to showcase their ability and build their brand etc.That's very possible, but I wonder how much of an effect the history and prestige of the Champion's League and the World Cup/Euro will weigh on the players' mind if it really comes down to UEFA/FIFA banning all players in the ESL clubs from those competitions.
I don't think a proper outlet for negotiations actually exist which is why this is happening. UEFA took a firm stand to expand and the big clubs have made their stance visibly clear. If suspensions of big clubs ( which can't happen) or the Euros occur, then it would really be a stalemate and could mean the shutdown of football until this issue is resolved. It's the pandemic, fans aren't in the stadiums, not dates for next season have been set by either the ESL, the leagues or the champions league. It's public, but that's how the negotiations in basketball and American football are.If it was just a point, it would be negotiated behind the curtains. This is too public now. I think the decision is taken.
That's not a good comparison, because playing for PSG and City will actually really enhance your chance to participate in the competitions I'm mentioning, or maybe only for PSG now that City is part of the ESL.As much of an effect it has on players deciding to play for clubs like PSG and City... not too much imo, unfortunately. Money talks at the end of the day. The best players are going to want to best pay and the best platform to showcase their ability and build their brand etc.
I'm quite impartial on the whole thing, I see benefits to both sides and haven't yet made up my mind until more concrete information re. how it will be undertaken comes out, but that aspect is one I'm worried about. Simply put, it's going to be even harder for 'smaller' clubs to keep hold of their best players, whilst also widening the gap between the elite and said clubs.
It's more so to illustrate that I don't think the prestige and history of competitions or clubs really matter enough to players to over compensate for the supposed benefits the ESL will bring. The CL is iconic and what not now, but how long will that last when both the calibre of teams competing and the intrigue/sponsorships in the competition take a nose dive?That's not a good comparison, because playing for PSG and City will actually really enhance your chance to participate in the competitions I'm mentioning, or maybe only for PSG now that City is part of the ESL.
was thinking the same thing. Trophy phobic Spurs part of the elite 12 clubs. Incredible.I personally hate the idea of it, but as the title of the thread asks.. why are Spurs invited?
The crazy thing is we're going to find out soon.It's more so to illustrate that I don't think the prestige and history of competitions or clubs really matter enough to players to over compensate for the supposed benefits the ESL will bring. The CL is iconic and what not now, but how long will that last when both the calibre of teams competing and the intrigue/sponsorships in the competition take a nose dive?
Only reason that Tottenham were invited was because of Pochettino accomplishment. They should not be in this league regardless despite where Pochettino took them
That's why the Super League is a shit idea. It's not based on footballing merit but power and money. Spurs and Arsenal have no business being considered super clubs right now just like we didn't when we finished 6th.What’s irritating me now is Arsenal and Arteta getting rewarded for their fecking shambles of a league campaign.
Basically this league will allow Arsenal to spend 75 mill on Pepe and stink up the Prem but still be allowed to take in a giant pot of money from this super league.
The other thing is, if this is purely postering how exactly are the likes of Arsenal and Spurs going to be catered for should Uefa cave and give greater CL revenue money around.
Seeing as how neither of those two clubs will be in next season and possibly for the season after.
Cheese room maybeI personally hate the idea of it, but as the title of the thread asks.. why are Spurs invited?
That's the thing though. Those players and clubs became famous over time because of their success. Twenty years ago Chelsea were not a big club, same as Spurs. Leeds used to be a big club until their downfall.Thats the thing. They will sort all of that out in the short term. The main thing is, its a coup of UEFA. The big clubs are clearly not happy with them and in truth they have a right not to be. I think an agreement will eventually be made or a new governing body will be created, but for all the top clubs to come together like this, it has to be for far more reasons that simply greed.
Imo UEFA and the individual leagues huffing and puffing will only lead to more alienation. FIFA and the leagues will eventually fold as the game is only popular today because of these teams and players. This is basically a public arbitration. UEFA overemphasized their power and the clubs who made them what they are are fighting back. Talk of greed, death of football, is all an exaggeration. Its annoying and it will take some time, but this matter will be resolved.
Daniel LevyI personally hate the idea of it, but as the title of the thread asks.. why are Spurs invited?
At this point, there is only an announcement of an agreement between the clubs forming. You can sort of equate this to when the U.K. voted for Brexit a while back. There's still so much more to happen before this actually gets established, and there's no guarantee that it will get established, by the way. To further support this notion, Juventus themselves even alluded to this in their official statement:Is this even happening? Everyone is crying about the end of football while some are saying it's just a negotiating tactic. It's not official right?
Juventus expects the Super League to create long-term value for the Company and for the football industry as a whole. While the founding clubs will use their best efforts to implement the project within the shortest possible timeframe, at the moment the Company cannot assure that the project will be eventually successfully launched or predict the exact timing of the project. Accordingly, the Company does not have all the necessary elements to assess in detail the impact of the Super League on its financial and economic conditions and performance.
There are some exceptions (Wolfsberg, Hoffenheim, and Leverkusen), but generally they must be owned 50% + 1 by supporters/the club. RB Leipzig is also hated because it uses some loopholes to get around the rules (only have 17 members and all are employees or associated with Red Bull).Isn't there a rule in German football that the fans own 51% of the club so their owners can't make any decisions like this on their own? I remember the owner of Wolfsburg I believe did some fishy stuff and all 17 fanbases where chanting that he needed to die and all type of bad stuff and the league made him step down. Could be that I remember it wrong but TLDR the Germans got their values straight when it comes to football.
That's incredibly naive, of course it's greed.Thats the thing. They will sort all of that out in the short term. The main thing is, its a coup of UEFA. The big clubs are clearly not happy with them and in truth they have a right not to be. I think an agreement will eventually be made or a new governing body will be created, but for all the top clubs to come together like this, it has to be for far more reasons that simply greed.
I agree. However, its on UEFA to find a compromise. If these clubs feel UEFA as a governing body are profiteering and they have a right to question it. The teams that feature the most in these competitions felt the need to collude and break away as strong faction. If they feel that UEFA have unfairly managed affairs, they would be justified in breaking away.That's the thing though. Those players and clubs became famous over time because of their success. Twenty years ago Chelsea were not a big club, same as Spurs. Leeds used to be a big club until their downfall.
This super league will essentially create a franchise teams like in the US. There won't be a room for a new successful club like Leicester who are slowly getting to a pretty decent level.
Owners of those founders clubs won't give a damn if their players are no longer up to it because of age or form. Until now they had to rebuilt squads because of the champions league money. In the super league why would they invest money in a new squad if they could just rebuilt slowly for cheap while being last all the time and pocketing those huge earnings themselves? It's a recipe for disaster.
And I personally find it disrespecting when they talk of European super league while only clubs from 3 or 4 countries will play in it. In the age before tv money there were successful european clubs who are nowadays just happy if they manage to qualify for the group stages of the CL. It's a disgrace in my opinion.
The need to break away may not have been greed....UEFA have been horrible in their dealing with the bigger clubs over the past decade. The creation of the super league with its terms is greed.That's incredibly naive, of course it's greed.
Any reason other than greed, and the idea of an European Super-League, which could potentially have a lot of other merits, would have materialized in a different way: Namely by not having fixed spots and having solely sportive merit at the basis of the initial choice of members. Also by not including 6 clubs from a single country, a few of them only there because they are filthy rich or have the potential for generating wealth.
I bet people said the same thing (greed, killing the game etc) when the same club owners proposed the PL some 30 years ago.What about the long term? What about the football pyramid where the Premier League's massive financial power trickles down (even in a small way) all the way to the smallest teams in the farthest parts of the country?
Without that structure football falls apart completely. No more constant conveyor belt of players where cream rises to the top and in some way is balanced out to provide some competition.
Yes this will provide massive financial gains to the clubs involved but it is short sighted and immensely damaging to the entire game.
If Pochettino wasn’t there manager, do you honestly believe they would be considered for this? You may laugh at it, but it is the truth. Pochettino transformed a mid table club like Tottenham, to be considered to be part of the big boys. With Pochettino gone and Kane about to leave, spurs will go back to mediocrity (as is already starting since Pochettino left)
The Glazers and FSG have been driving forces behind this whole process so they aren't going to budge unless it fails miserably and they have no choice. If that's the case, hopefully the Glazers decide to sell up. American "investor" owners don't care at all about the sporting aspect of owning a football team. They just want their asset to increase in value and guarantee financial returns.United or Liverpool need to step back from this. One of the two really need to rethink, step back and the other will follow. The whole “ who is the most successful club in the land” will stop dead flat. If this greedy league starts and one of us wins it I wouldn’t fecking care. Var was bad enough and we kind of got used to that disaster. This is different. You can gloat all you want if you win it.
UEFA has been horrible in their dealing with the "bigger clubs"? Specifically? As in more terrible with them than with every other club?The need to break away may not have been greed....UEFA have been horrible in their dealing with the bigger clubs over the past decade. The creation of the super league with its terms is greed.