The 115 charges are only from PL and does not apply to championship or lower leagues. So they start 2024/25 with -452 pts. Then if they make 90 pts in that season. They get relegated to Championship. Then when they come back in 2026/27, they get applied the -362 pts. And so on. No chance.So we have now establish a pattern of four points on average per infraction. That means City will be deducted 452 points. 114 points in the Premier League next year, 138 points in the Championship the following, then 138 in League One again. That´s 390 points off. I guess that means they can fight for immediate promotion from League Two, if they win all 46 matches against a 62 point deduction. I mean that´s what will happen right.
Everton deducted 10 points for PSR breach (reduced to 6) | Deducted further 2 points for second breach
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
And there were 101 days between your 10 point deduction and it being reduced to 6 points, and a further 42 days between that and the additional deduction you've been handed today.
The last game of the season is 19th May. if you were slapped with a 12 point deduction for 2024/25 on the 20th, 101 days from then takes you to 28th August (which would likely be three or four games into the season), and 153 days from then takes you to 19th October (which would be eight or nine games into the season).
This obviously just gets deeper into the following season the longer there is between the final game and the punishment being announced.
Again, this ignores how unfair this would be to the team that finished 18th.
I agree the process is shit and there needs to be a more black and white explanation of the punishments and how they're calculated, but I don't think it happening mid-season is actually one of the issues. You're hiding behind the psychological effect it may have on other teams as a way of distracting from the fact that delaying anything until the next season is more favourable for Everton (at least in the form of a stay of execution).
There will never be a perfect way to do it, I just think the fairest way is not during a season. I'm not hiding behind anything. I don't care who it is, Everton, Forest, Leicester or otherwise.
And I disagree.
You're now two points off the drop, making relegation a real possibility.
If you hadn't received any points deductions this season, and finished two to four points off 18th (as you did last season and the season before), then someone's getting relegated in your place just so you can start the next campaign on a negative total.
This is objectively more unfair than a hypothetical psychological impact on the relegation battlers during the season, especially when any appeals may bring that into play anyway.
That's fine.
Disgusting cheats.
PL execs must quietly be hoping Luton finish in that last relegation spot, in order to avoid any additional messy lawsuits
Ridiculous that TheFa fail to see elephant in the room.
It is bonkers that these points deductions keep coming at random times.
They should all be dished out before a new season begins, so everyone in the league knows what they need to do.
They should all be dished out before a new season begins, so everyone in the league knows what they need to do.
Imagine how shit they’d be without cheating.
Fairest way is to follow the rules.
I'm assuming everyone saying they're "making it up as they go along" or "picking it out of thin air" or whatever aren't reading the actual decisions, right?
100%.
With all these point deductions setting president for single charges, I really hope the PL brings the house down on City for any of their guilty charges. It's outrageous that they've been able to ride out punishment this long, winning trophies galore on the way, simply because they've got 100+ more than anyone else. Letting them ride it out this long is seriously going to damage the English game if all those domestic trophies are going to be stripped.
50 point deduction for 10 years straight (for the decade of the cheating) and all their titles stripped would be decent.
Is there any other way to have an opinion on the internet?
If you don’t like the timing of point deductions, maybe stop breaking the rules. No sympathy for them.
The calls to delay the reduction make little sense to me, the benefit gained by not following the rules is felt here and now so why should the punishment be delayed to next season?
I'd feel bad for Everton fans if it does cost them but ultimately it's the owners fault not the league.
I'd feel bad for Everton fans if it does cost them but ultimately it's the owners fault not the league.
That Luton vs Everton game in a few weeks is massive now, as is Everton vs Forest next week.
Because other teams will probably get punished next season for offences committed in the timeframe Everton are being punished for now, adding another layer of unfairness to this whole thing.
A real 1-9 pointer
So... FA is basically admitting that the current financial control instruments are pretty much useless and the max it will happen is losing a few points. Copy that.
The FPP really does appear to be a dogs breakfast with the rules & penalties being made up as they go along.
Again, to people saying this - why does it seem that way? What in the decisions and their motivations makes you feel that way?
I don't see consistency in the points deductions & I don't get the reduced points for being helpful.
But did you read the decisions and their motives?
I've asked this a couple of times now, everyone seems to have an opinion on these decisions and wants to shit on them or spin them in ridicule, but I don't think a single one of us (I haven't) have actually read the decisions.
And I'm asking this because when the last round of decisions came out, the ones involving Forest and Everton, everyone was up in arms about them and spitting exactly the same comments, with a lot of the media doing exactly the same (figure that, sports journalists being lazy), and I listened to one podcast where one of the journos on there had actually taken the time to read it all and had explained all the arguments going into the decisions, the balances, etc. And while you might disagree with the decisions, they actually did make some sense and it definitely wasn't the "made up as they go along" bullshit that is just lazy punditry (and posting on here).
Can someone sum of what Everton have done wrong? I mean by what numbers have they spend too much?
The PL wanted 12 points for the first deduction and 5 points for the second deduction. 
There's no doubt in my mind that's true.
You’re allowed to lose 105m over 3 years, you can lose more than that and have add backs for certain items, women’s team, covid et al. It’s actually a bit more nuanced than that but that’s basically it.
Almost all of the league would have breached without covid add backs, there is an established 9 point max now I think(from precedent, which they ignore anyway..). We’d have been better off if nobody was allowed covid loses.
Everton’s first breach was 19.5 million the second breach was 17m or so. Forest breach 35m lead to a 4 point deduction before the appeal Everton got 10. Double the breach 40% the punishment. So both of Everton’s total loses similar to Forest after 1. Note they are not building a stadium. Forest could only lose 83m or something due to them being in the championship, presumably this rule exists due to the high risk of them going down, smaller revenue streams via an established premiership team etc.
Everton’s net spend over the last 5 years is 18th 20m or so Forest 200m Burnley 80m.
Everton’s wage budget is 10th. Given Everton’s larger wage budget than Burnley, the spend on transfers and players is similar over the last 5 years to Burnley. Leicester city had one of the highest wages budgets in the world 14th or something at peak. They’ve been cheating for years.
Make what you will about claims of sporting advantage from the above given Everton are building the stadium + lose of revenue from the Ukraine war and increased costs of stadium materials and interest etc.
The main issue is Everton had a league finish average of 7th from 2005 to say 2017/18. They were a threat to the top 6. When in Europe they tried to buy a squad and had a couple of bad seasons + bad signings. This resulted in us getting into p&s issues compounded mainly by Ukraine war and the stadium tipping us over the edge as well as player X. This is what the rules are designed to do. Similar happened to Leicester. If you believe they’re there for any other reason than to maintain a cartel well, I disagree strongly, like I would just ignore anyone who didn’t think that.
We have had to sell our players cheap to absolute garbage like Newcastle who are clearly financially doping. Gordon Richarlison et al. Much like Forest and Leicester selling cheap.
If you want to find any logic or consistency in their approach to sanctions you can’t. It’s all based on Forest & Leicester grassing whilst cheating and threatening to sue, scapegoating and avoiding a regulator whilst pretending they’ll do something about Man City & Chelsea. Corrupt as anything you will see hence Newcastle owners approval and sponsors.
They could get another 10 points deducted and still find a way to Houdini their way out of the relegation zone. They exist to get spanked by Liverpool. Since the turn of the century they have only won 5 out of 53 PL games!
No one knows what the automatic penalties are.
Say you put out an ineligible player in the Cup and it's proven, you get disqualified for the tournament. If it's a league game you lose it 3-0.
If you go into administration in the premier league (which might be the calamity to befall Everton next season if their takeover isn't approved soon) then you get -9 (-12 in the lower leagues due to more games.
Apparently an automatic breach of FFP is supposed to be the loss of three points and then it slides upwards depending on further offences. I thought Forest were incredibly lucky to just lose four points but at least it makes sense from that perspective.
However then you arrive at the premier league recommending a further five points on Everton's second charge and the independent commission just dismissing it and so their second punishment is actually now lower than what an automatic FFP breach should've been.
It's a total mess.
What should be clear for anyone going forward is what the automatic points breach is if found guilty.....with no appeal. You can then appeal if the points penalty is significantly higher than.
But that's besides the point - no one knows what the automatic penalties are cos there are none, which was a decision of all the teams (who wanted cases to be judged individually).
So in a nutshell Everton get deducted because there are so few infractions and it’s easier to apply the punishment whereas City have too many to count therefore too much red tape in the way to deduct anything. Why don’t they just take one infraction that they know of with City and deduct something. How is this not looked at right now. How is there not a complete uproar.
Yep, and the inconsistencies in the way that the “rules” are applied to will only strengthen City’s case(s).
I don't understand why they haven't slapped them with a deduction for each of the charges relating to failing to cooperate.
That's four or five charges right there, and could easily have them being slapped with 40-50 point deductions until they start cooperating again.
Why aren’t other owners or people in charge of other clubs not speaking out. This is just crazy
I'm not really a fan of how they are applying points deductions mid season for different charges. I'd much prefer any punishes to be applied to the next season that is yet to start. That way you can clearly draw the line at the start of the season, with the only potential change being an appeal that reduces the amount.
Like spring.
Why do Everton and Leicester get dealt with so quickly and sh*t all happens to Man City with them having even more breaches.
Such an obvious money hungry sport underground almost like we are watching WWF as a kid again believing that everything we see is real.
If I was Everton, I'd go Public and say that until Manchester City get dealt the same way as Everton that they are not going to listen to the FA. Every person in the world except Man City fans would give them their support.
Such an obvious money hungry sport underground almost like we are watching WWF as a kid again believing that everything we see is real.
If I was Everton, I'd go Public and say that until Manchester City get dealt the same way as Everton that they are not going to listen to the FA. Every person in the world except Man City fans would give them their support.