Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

[Gambit]

Darren Lewis column in the mirror

So much has already been said about the Suarez-Evra case.

So I'll just add a couple of things.

It is fascinating that, in a week when we have reached the conclusion of a high-profile court case following a man's death because of the colour of his skin, football fans - and one of the country's highest profile clubs - are still defending a man found guilty of using a racially offensive term.

As a black man I can tell you this: There is no context in which any term referring to the colour of my skin during an argument can be termed as anything other than racist.

That might be hard for Liverpool fans to accept but it is a fact.

Suarez admitted using the word 'negro' to Patrice Evra in his own evidence to the FA's three-man independent commission.

Having seen friends attacked for being black, having been racially abused myself, and even having been on the end of the attempts to use racist terms in an apparently affectionate, friendly way, I don't need anybody to tell me what does and does not constitute racism.

Many Liverpool fans have been in touch with me, outraged, to complain about the Daily Mirror's infamous 'Racist' back page.

And yet there has been a spectacular irony about the way some of them, trying to defend Suarez against the charge, have themselves directed racist language of the most disgraceful kind at other pundits and journalists.

Some fans have fumed to me that they would be unfollowing me and my newspaper on Twitter. As if some sort of Twitter boycott would have anywhere near the same significance as basic human decency.

This is way bigger than all of that nonsense.

Liverpool are a great club with good people, good administrators and many, many good fans. But they have got it wrong on this occasion from start to finish.

They demanded the written reasons after the guilty verdict was announced last month but have gone on to dismiss those, maintaining they are right and the rest of world was wrong.

Even then, in their incendiary latest statement they claim to be a "leader on taking a progressive stance on race issues". But privately the anti-racism groups in this country that I have spoken to are horrified at the Reds' intransigence on Suarez.

The wearing of those infamous T-shirts was at best an open defiance of our football authorities and at worst a massive blow - from a club with worldwide renown - for the fight to kick racism out of football.

The use of that word 'Racist' on the back page of the Mirror indicated that an independent three-man panel had listened to all the evidence and ruled that the words used by Suarez were racially offensive.

And yet Liverpool have accused the FA of a witch-hunt and appear to be questioning the independence and the honesty of a respected QC with their most recent statement.

The FA have had little if anything to do with the judgment, acting on this occasion as the messenger once said judgment had been reached.

The decision of the independent panel to use their discretion to give eight-matches shows that we in this country have set a benchmark in the fight against racism.

It shows that while there would have been a denial, or even a shameful acceptance of racism from the people in charge years ago, the will is now there to show zero tolerance - whatever the ability or the status of the player, or club, concerned.

It is understandable that Liverpool's instinctive stance at the start of this row would have been to back their man. Particularly one so talented and valuable to them as Suarez is in comparison to his fellow (inferior) strikers.

But somewhere along the line they have made it about them and now the image of the club is taking a battering.

That could yet change if Suarez, who insisted in November that either he or Evra would have to apologise if the ruling went against them, did the decent thing and said sorry.

Certainly relations between Liverpool and Manchester United need to be repaired ahead of his return game in early February.

In the meantime the credibility of the people who run our game remains intact on this issue.

Liverpool continue digging.

 

[Judge Red]

Darren Lewis column in the mirror

And that, in a nutshell, is why an apology from the club was required. The utter stupidity and ignorance of both club and player is more astonishing than the racism itself. Offend an entire race, and in turn a whole nation, rather than back down from a war they started with a rival football club with a humble 'sorry for any unintentional offence caused'? A true meltdown.

 

[Dion]

it sent a clear message to the FA , we'll take whatever you give us.
Our bark is worse than our bite.

That's always going to be the case when your defence is absolutely toothless. Although to be fair, they have done a feck load of barking.

 

[Crumpsall Red]

There is no context in which any term referring to the colour of my skin during an argument can be termed as anything other than racist.

That might be hard for Liverpool fans to accept but it is a fact.

Says it all

 

[Judge Red]

That might be hard for Liverpool fans to accept...

Indeed...

he's another bandwagon jumping tool...who because he's black thinks he can say what the feck he likes about the situation without fear of censure or retribution....

the irony of c*nts like him using a race issue to further own careers is nauseating...I hope Kenny sues him and his employer..

Wow, as satisfying as I found their downfall from a tribal point of view, it's getting pretty offensive now when they start reacting to black journalists like that on a public forum. Hate to think what 'retribution' this individual has planned for him...

 

[Gambit]

From Kneejerker (newb I imagine) Dan Roans twitter.

Piara Power Exec Director of Football Against Racism in Europe calls on FA to charge Liverpool FC for disrepute over Suarez statements

Piara Power exec Director of Football Against Racism in Europe: "#lfc have constantly undermined investigation & its outcome." #suarez mf

Powar: "#lfc disrespectful to FA & questioned their integrity-If manager had done that in post-match FA would have brought disrepute charge"

 

[Inigo Montoya]

There is no context in which any term referring to the colour of my skin during an argument can be termed as anything other than racist.

That might be hard for Liverpool fans to accept but it is a fact.

Says it all

A further irony is that so many of them jumped to vilify Everton for the racist abuse directed at John Barnes, and taking the moral high ground in that debate, yet now they close their eyes and defend the indefensible.

This club has fallen very far

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Indeed...



Wow, as satisfying as I found their downfall from a tribal point of view, it's getting pretty offensive now when they start reacting to black journalists like that on a public forum. Hate to think what 'retribution' this individual has planned for him...

Time to dig out the white pointy hats and crosses

 

[Crispy71]

A further irony is that so many of them jumped to vilify Everton for the racist abuse directed at John Barnes, and taking the moral high ground in that debate, yet now they close their eyes and defend the indefensible.

This club has fallen very far

Quite right -




By John Reed -
John Barnes ex England International and Black, commented that the response of the English media was hypocritical. When Barnes played for Watford and Liverpool he suffered monkey chants and had bananas thrown at him by opposing fans, as did all black players at that time in the 1980's. At an Everton versus Liverpool derby match in 1987, Everton fans greeted Barnes and Liverpool with chants of 'niggerpool, n*********, n********* every time he touched the ball. At this time Everton and a whole number of other clubs did not sign or play Black players.


How quickly people forget.....

 

[Crispy71]

Time to dig out the white pointy hats and crosses

Shit, is it easter already..........

 

[Plechazunga]

'There is no context in which any term referring to the colour of my skin during an argument can be termed as anything other than racist.'

That might be hard for Liverpool fans to accept but it is a fact.

I disagree, I thought that was a notably daft comment from the journalist.

"That's rubbish, Darren. They have no more right to target gays for their sexual preferences than to target you for being black."

"I'm surprised you can overlook Ron Paul's racist newsletters. Just twenty years ago he was putting out inflammatory statements about people with your skin colour, and now you think he's worth a vote?"

"Let's not bring race into this. The fact that you're black and I'm white is irrelevant to our disagreement."

- all comments involving reference to his skin colour, none racist. Call me pedantic, but if he's going to come out with blanket generalisations like that he ought to be called on them.

 

[moses]

- all comments involving reference to his skin colour, none racist. Call me pedantic, but if he's going to come out with blanket generalisations like that he ought to be called on them.

Pedant.

 

[Rado_N]

Pedant.

He said call him penantic.

 

[Unam333]

Quite right -




By John Reed -
John Barnes ex England International and Black, commented that the response of the English media was hypocritical. When Barnes played for Watford and Liverpool he suffered monkey chants and had bananas thrown at him by opposing fans, as did all black players at that time in the 1980's. At an Everton versus Liverpool derby match in 1987, Everton fans greeted Barnes and Liverpool with chants of 'niggerpool, n*********, n********* every time he touched the ball. At this time Everton and a whole number of other clubs did not sign or play Black players.

That's disgusting. Absolutely appaling! A whole crowd chanting that shite. Sounds alot worse than what Suarez did imo. 100% racism that is.

 

[moses]

He said call him penantic.

Pedant.

 

[moses]

That's disgusting. Absolutely appaling! A whole crowd chanting that shite. Sounds alot worse than what Suarez did imo. 100% racism that is.

It was the style at the time. I remember Mark Walters in Scotland getting pelted with bananas. That said most right minded folk were still horrified.

 

[noodlehair]

"Let's not bring race into this. The fact that you're black and I'm white is irrelevant to our disagreement."

I reckon this is what Suarez actually said.

 

[noodlehair]

There, I've just constructed a better defence than what Liverpool and their team of fancy lawyers (Kenny Dalglish) could manage.

 

[Redlambs]

What Barnes is basically saying is because he suffered severe racial abuse in his day from fans, the Liverpool players of todays should exact revenge.

Well if I was of the Rawk ilk, I might think that

 

[Spoony]

There, I've just constructed a better defence than what Liverpool and their team of fancy lawyers (Kenny Dalglish) could manage.

He's not white, though...his grandfather's black.

'Let's not bring race into this. The fact that you're black and I'm not quite as black is irrelevant to our disagreement.'

And you're all racist.

 

[moses]

That Barnes allegation , ie hypocrisy, is being touted by many scousers, saying that what Suarez did was wrong but Evra only reported it because it was v Liverpool. And thus hypocritical.

 

[Brophs]

Dalglish's argument "I just wish you lot could hear what really went on at the hearing" followed by "But I won't tell you as the mean old FA will do me" is about as weak as you'll get. It's like when you ask a child a question and they say "Not telling" and when you ask why they think for a bit and then, light bulb popping above their head, say "Cos it's a secret". Job done, no further questions required or allowed. Check and mate.

 

[Redlambs]

Dalglish might have been pissed during the hearing, hence why he's suddenly remembered some vital information that for some reason they left out?

 

[Crispy71]

Dalglish's argument "I just wish you lot could hear what really went on at the hearing" followed by "But I won't tell you as the mean old FA will do me" is about as weak as you'll get. It's like when you ask a child a question and they say "Not telling" and when you ask why they think for a bit and then, light bulb popping above their head, say "Cos it's a secret". Job done, no further questions required or allowed. Check and mate.

Anybody would think dalglish had been on the pop.

Damn you Redlambs!!

 

[Feeky Magee]

As far as I can recall the Schmeichel case was quite similar to the Steve Finnan one, he was accused by a fan who thought he lip-read him saying "black bastard", Wright didn't complain and the case was dropped due to no evidence.

 

[Eyepopper]

Reporter: "OK, if a player calls someone 'negro' [Spanish pronunciation], surely the player who takes offence deserves an apology?"

Dalglish: "Ask a linguistic expert, which certainly I am not. They will tell you that the part of the country in Uruguay where he [Luis Suárez] comes from, it is perfectly acceptable. His wife calls him that and I don't think he is offended by her. We have made a statement and I think it is there for everybody to read. Luis has made a brilliant statement and we will stand by him."

I'm pretty sure even a linguistic expert could tell you that he sleeps with his wife and that on the football field in a fierce rivalry the word has no place. Dalglish is blind with ignorance

Didn't they have linguistic experts at the tribunal who said there was little doubt it was said to cause offence, given the context?

He really is a feckwit.

 

[Rams]

I don't know who has their heads stuck the furthest up their arses; the journo's or Plech?

 

[dicko]

It's 630am here. I've just got up and am ten pages behind. Apologies if this has been posted.

Liverpool's initial statement was very strong about them appealing. Their second is just as strongly worded but says they wont appeal. They are quite happy to leave Suarez's reputation damaged because the only way to restore it is to prove the verdict wrong. They make a strongly worded statement about a lack of evidence, lack of balance in the proceedings etc but wont take it further. This clearly implies that they feel they have a good case. However the lack of an appeal seems to says "We wont appeal because we dont have a strong enough case".

Also, Liverpool have used the defence that "It is not offensive in Uruguay". Surely this implies that they accept it is offensive in England. Why no apology for UNINTENTIONAL offence to Evra.

 

[moses]

Also, Liverpool have used the defence that "It is not offensive in Uruguay". Surely this implies that they accept it is offensive in England. Why no apology for UNINTENTIONAL offence to Evra.

... because the complaint was motivated by malice and Evra ... well em ... and other stuff that they are not allowed say, apparently.

 

[cinc]

... because the complaint was motivated by malice and Evra ... well em ... and other stuff that they are not allowed say, apparently.

Plus they "dont talk to blacks"

 

[apotheosis]

There, I've just constructed a better defence than what Liverpool and their team of fancy lawyers (Kenny Dalglish) could manage.

You were right in the quiz thread Noodle, you are amazing!

 

[apotheosis]

Didn't they have linguistic experts at the tribunal who said there was little doubt it was said to cause offence, given the context?

He really is a feckwit.

He must be if he is even too thick to realise his missus is actually offending him! I know he is not very likeable, but i didn't realise his own missus dislikes him too!

 

[MauritianRed]

He must be if he is even too thick to realise his missus is actually offending him! I know he is not very likeable, but i didn't realise his own missus dislikes him too!

Or she was thinking of someone else while calling him that name in bed...

 

[Sw33t]

Apologised finally.

But not to Evra. Shit apology.


Edit: Luis Suarez Apologises - Sport Witness

 

[RK]

He can shove it up his arse, if he meant the apology it would've been made days, if not weeks, if not months ago.

 

[acrebo]

Too little, too late.

 

[Wowi]

So once again he's admitted to actually saying the word. Wonder if Liverpool and their fans will take note of it this time, or if they'll ignore it once again claiming that Evra's a liar.

I know where I'd place my bet.

Edit: And yeah, shit apology. Not sure I'd even call it an apology, as he's still going on about how he didn't use it in a derogatory way.

 

[SteveJ]

That was a Clarkson-style apology.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

So once again he's admitted to actually saying the word. Wonder if Liverpool and their fans will take note of it this time, or if they'll ignore it once again claiming that Evra's a liar.

I know where I'd place my bet.

Doesn't matter really, they've seen the Pied Piper on Sky once again stating that it's ok in Uruguay.

 

[MUFCgal]

Too late, they've let this drag on in ridiculous fashion. Those disgusting statements and the wearing of those awful, cringey t-shirts, questioning Evra's credibility.

Too late Suarez, can't wait for 11th February.