F1 2021 Season

[Adam-Utd]

Yeah, it's not a classic case about how much space you leave another car on the outside at corner exit. But I think it's still somewhat about how two cars might try to navigate the middle of a corner side-by-side, and I think a similar principle applies in that the car on the inside doesn't get to just decide how wide he wants to run and the outside car just has to deal with it.

I've said it before, I think Hamilton makes a mistake. He's carrying too much speed at too tight an angle with too little grip (dirty track inside) to take the corner well and is why he understeers and misses the apex by quite a bit. My view is just that it's still on a driver to drive a tighter line when he knows a car is outside of him into a corner. A similar case is Sainz getting clipped by Russell during the sprint race on Saturday, for which he was also penalized.


But if hard racing™ is not leaving any space outside, then you won't get that racing as everything will just be a dive to the inside, from defending or attacking positions.

I've said it many times, Hamilton is partially to blame, same for Verstappen. This is racing and not everything is cut and dry, there isn't a 100% blame to either of them.

They both could have done things differently to avoid it. The tension was huge, the excitement was sky high and with the draft Hamilton was getting there was no way he would give that chance up.

It's really unfortunate the clash happened, but f1 history is littered with crashes like this and big moments, it'll go down in folklore as a Senna/Prost moment for sure.

 

[rednotled]

Well we wanted racing right? And if this thread is anything to go by, interest in F1 has shot up faster than an extra in trainspotting.

Roll on the rest of the season I say, drama, drama queens and thread bans for the "heat of the moment" posts.

Does this mean santi can come back? He'd fit right in now...

 

[Adam-Utd]

Well we wanted racing right? And if this thread is anything to go by, interest in F1 has shot up faster than an extra in trainspotting.

Roll on the rest of the season I say, drama, drama queens and thread bans for the "heat of the moment" posts.

Does this mean santi can come back? He'd fit right in now...

Bingo, 1 thing for sure is this has the feeling of a PROPER rivalry now.

F1 has become pretty PG over the last few years, drivers are all best friends and wouldn't say boo to a goose.

It's nice to see some of them giving it out, but fairly of course.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Lewis Hamilton's most famous overtake of his career:

he considers this his best overtake in his own opinion:


Is this bad racecraft? And if it is, why does Hamilton of all people consider it to be the best overtake of his career?

There was nothing wrong with Verstappen's move in Spain. He made the apex, didn't run wide, and was ahead on corner exit.

Comparing it to Silverstone, where Hamilton clips Raikkonen from behind, is just a complete fallacy.

That overtake has nothing to do with my post about Hamilton having to avoid crashes with Max multiple times.

You claim it is his best overtake but you're probably taking far too seriously some bullshite media interview the drivers had to do.

 

[Infordin]

That overtake has nothing to do with my post about Hamilton having to avoid crashes with Max multiple times.

There is nothing wrong with diving down the inside. Lots of overtakes are made in this way. As long as you make the corner and are ahead on exit, you are fine.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

There is nothing wrong with diving down the inside. Lots of overtakes are made in this way. As long as you make the corner and are ahead on exit, you are fine.

So Silverstone was a racing incident.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

There is nothing wrong with diving down the inside. Lots of overtakes are made in this way. As long as you make the corner and are ahead on exit, you are fine.

 

[slyadams]

There is nothing wrong with diving down the inside. Lots of overtakes are made in this way. As long as you make the corner and are ahead on exit, you are fine.

As long as you leave space to a car alongside, which Max doesn't generally do as I clearly showed above. Seems like what you really mean is: "There is nothing wrong with Max diving down the inside".

 

[arthurka]

People have been crying for some feisty and competitive things to come back to the F1 and now it's back and people are complaining. It was a great and bold move from Lewis and he got away with it. This I like, rest of the season will be tight as feck and that's great.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

People have been crying for some feisty and competitive things to come back to the F1 and now it's back and people are complaining. It was a great and bold move from Lewis and he got away with it. This I like, rest of the season will be tight as feck and that's great.

Rest of the season will be very interesting. I think the Red Bull car is too fast for the Mercedes (the rule change worked) but I look forward to some more action.

However, I think the Red Bulls management teams reaction to the crash was excessive and will only make the racing more aggressive and possibly dangerous in the future.

 

[arthurka]

Rest of the session will be very interesting. I think the Red Bull car is too fast for the Mercedes (the rule change worked) but I look forward to some more action.

However, I think the Red Bulls management teams reaction to the crash was excessive and will only make the racing more aggressive and possibly dangerous in the future.

This is what every F1 fan in the world has been crying out for this and I loved seeing Lewis being reckless and aggressive and giving shit. Max and Red Bull have gotten under the Mercs skin and are really pissing them off. It's a game and Horner and Red Bull are rattling the cage here. Finally I am watching this with great interest again. If Red Bull play this right they will be crowned champions they seem to have a better kit and a fantastic talent in Max.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

The next race will be interesting, Lewis and Max I expect to be front row and I would not be shocked for the same thing to happen again.

 

[WeePat]

People have been crying for some feisty and competitive things to come back to the F1 and now it's back and people are complaining. It was a great and bold move from Lewis and he got away with it. This I like, rest of the season will be tight as feck and that's great.

Well as a very casual F1 follower who started losing interest a couple of years ago, this has definitely peaked my interest again.

 

[arthurka]

Well as a very casual F1 follower who started losing interest a couple of years ago, this has definitely peaked my interest again.

Rivalry and tight races is what this sport has been crying out for.. now we have it back, what's not to like.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Some on here did not see F1 in the 80s and 90's


https://drivetribe.com/p/ranking-f1...1_IPSay1wNQhh_jLPA?iid=dwzbblb0Riqxgl2nauIquA

 

[pauldyson1uk]

This is pathetic on RB part.


Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko is reportedly determined to bring in a legal eagle to probe the FIA stewards' handling of the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton in the British Grand Prix.

Hamilton was handed a 10-second penalty by the stewards for causing a collision when the two drivers clashed at Copse corner on the opening lap of last Sunday's race.

But the sanction didn't prevent the Mercedes driver from winning the race.

However, the Red Bull camp was unhappy with the stewards' decision, with Marko calling for an outright race ban on Hamilton in light of the Briton's "dangerous" move that sent Verstappen into the barriers.

"He [the lawyer] should check what you could do in such a situation within the framework of the sporting rules," Marko is quoted by Austria's Kronen Zeitung

"It was very lucky that nothing serious happened to Max, the car, and probably the engine too, is broken. You can't let that sit on you."


Regardless of the outcome of Red Bull's potential legal procedure, Marko believes a revision of the sporting rules and the stewards' system regarding in-race sanctions is in order, with harsher penalties to be considered.

"A suspension would be justified," Marko added. "But maybe the regulations are also to blame for being relatively restricted.

"The rules should be revised, including the stewards system. Perez got five seconds twice in Austria because there was marginal contact without anyone flying off.


"You could have given a drive-thru penalty plus ten seconds to Hamilton. But they didn't do that either.

"Max was on his line. Where Hamilton was he had to lift off the throttle. You cannot hit your opponent on the rear wheel in one of the fastest corners, the lightest touch has fatal consequences.

"So, an irresponsible action. Hamilton needs to know what the consequences are."

 

[Balljy]

This is pathetic on RB part.


Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko is reportedly determined to bring in a legal eagle to probe the FIA stewards' handling of the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton in the British Grand Prix.

Hamilton was handed a 10-second penalty by the stewards for causing a collision when the two drivers clashed at Copse corner on the opening lap of last Sunday's race.

But the sanction didn't prevent the Mercedes driver from winning the race.

However, the Red Bull camp was unhappy with the stewards' decision, with Marko calling for an outright race ban on Hamilton in light of the Briton's "dangerous" move that sent Verstappen into the barriers.

"He [the lawyer] should check what you could do in such a situation within the framework of the sporting rules," Marko is quoted by Austria's Kronen Zeitung

"It was very lucky that nothing serious happened to Max, the car, and probably the engine too, is broken. You can't let that sit on you."


Regardless of the outcome of Red Bull's potential legal procedure, Marko believes a revision of the sporting rules and the stewards' system regarding in-race sanctions is in order, with harsher penalties to be considered.

"A suspension would be justified," Marko added. "But maybe the regulations are also to blame for being relatively restricted.

"The rules should be revised, including the stewards system. Perez got five seconds twice in Austria because there was marginal contact without anyone flying off.


"You could have given a drive-thru penalty plus ten seconds to Hamilton. But they didn't do that either.

"Max was on his line. Where Hamilton was he had to lift off the throttle. You cannot hit your opponent on the rear wheel in one of the fastest corners, the lightest touch has fatal consequences.

"So, an irresponsible action. Hamilton needs to know what the consequences are."

That seems ridiculous. There will be occasions where Verstappen does similar and where Hamilton does it again, that's literally what has always happened when people are driving on he limits in F1.

Also, the fact that Verstappen went off is down to luck (or lack of), so you can't use that to determine a penalty. If Verstappen had hit in a slightly different position it would be Hamilton's wheel which came off or both. Hamilton is a way better driver than I thought if he has managed to position the car in a way which means he knew that his car would be undamaged and Verstappen would go off. It's the same as Perez in Austria, slightly different contact and the result is totally different.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

This is pathetic on RB part.


Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko is reportedly determined to bring in a legal eagle to probe the FIA stewards' handling of the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton in the British Grand Prix.

Hamilton was handed a 10-second penalty by the stewards for causing a collision when the two drivers clashed at Copse corner on the opening lap of last Sunday's race.

But the sanction didn't prevent the Mercedes driver from winning the race.

However, the Red Bull camp was unhappy with the stewards' decision, with Marko calling for an outright race ban on Hamilton in light of the Briton's "dangerous" move that sent Verstappen into the barriers.

"He [the lawyer] should check what you could do in such a situation within the framework of the sporting rules," Marko is quoted by Austria's Kronen Zeitung

"It was very lucky that nothing serious happened to Max, the car, and probably the engine too, is broken. You can't let that sit on you."


Regardless of the outcome of Red Bull's potential legal procedure, Marko believes a revision of the sporting rules and the stewards' system regarding in-race sanctions is in order, with harsher penalties to be considered.

"A suspension would be justified," Marko added. "But maybe the regulations are also to blame for being relatively restricted.

"The rules should be revised, including the stewards system. Perez got five seconds twice in Austria because there was marginal contact without anyone flying off.


"You could have given a drive-thru penalty plus ten seconds to Hamilton. But they didn't do that either.

"Max was on his line. Where Hamilton was he had to lift off the throttle. You cannot hit your opponent on the rear wheel in one of the fastest corners, the lightest touch has fatal consequences.

"So, an irresponsible action. Hamilton needs to know what the consequences are."

Ridiculous.

If this continues, Red Bull will be having a negative impact on F1.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

This is along read, but I like Brundle and this is very good read.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/2...JiAYofR-or-1LmwjnXKaEd94hiilH3or0-tEdrGl0S6bs

 

[Jippy]

This is pathetic on RB part.


Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko is reportedly determined to bring in a legal eagle to probe the FIA stewards' handling of the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton in the British Grand Prix.

Hamilton was handed a 10-second penalty by the stewards for causing a collision when the two drivers clashed at Copse corner on the opening lap of last Sunday's race.

But the sanction didn't prevent the Mercedes driver from winning the race.

However, the Red Bull camp was unhappy with the stewards' decision, with Marko calling for an outright race ban on Hamilton in light of the Briton's "dangerous" move that sent Verstappen into the barriers.

"He [the lawyer] should check what you could do in such a situation within the framework of the sporting rules," Marko is quoted by Austria's Kronen Zeitung

"It was very lucky that nothing serious happened to Max, the car, and probably the engine too, is broken. You can't let that sit on you."


Regardless of the outcome of Red Bull's potential legal procedure, Marko believes a revision of the sporting rules and the stewards' system regarding in-race sanctions is in order, with harsher penalties to be considered.

"A suspension would be justified," Marko added. "But maybe the regulations are also to blame for being relatively restricted.

"The rules should be revised, including the stewards system. Perez got five seconds twice in Austria because there was marginal contact without anyone flying off.


"You could have given a drive-thru penalty plus ten seconds to Hamilton. But they didn't do that either.

"Max was on his line. Where Hamilton was he had to lift off the throttle. You cannot hit your opponent on the rear wheel in one of the fastest corners, the lightest touch has fatal consequences.

"So, an irresponsible action. Hamilton needs to know what the consequences are."

So much for them calming down in the cold light of the morning. It's really pathetic and such hyperbole with 'fatal consequences' - and a great way to lose support from neutrals.

When you have Vettel, LeClerc and Hill all saying it was a racing incident it underlines that it was a marginal decision.

Max is a great driver, but this is making me hate RB so much I hope they don't win anything this year.

 

[Snowjoe]

Are Red Bull worried Mercedes are going to find form now? They’re really going a bit OTT with this, I get stuff like this probably happens behind the scenes but it’s so public it’s a bit bizarre

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Max is a great driver, but this is making me hate RB so much I hope they don't win anything this year.

Agreed.

I never liked their drinks either. Poison in a can.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Agreed.

I never liked their drinks either. Poison in a can.

on their own I agree, but with some Jager, they are good.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Regardless I do find it a bit weird that if someone crashes (in this case Max) and the FIA deem someone else was (predominantly) at fault (in this case Hamilton) and the entire car including engine is ruined as a result that you don't get an extra engine penalty free.

 

[vangagal]

Its Helmut Marko. what did you expect from that smug?

 

[Balljy]

Regardless I do find it a bit weird that if someone crashes (in this case Max) and the FIA deem someone else was (predominantly) at fault (in this case Hamilton) and the entire car including engine is ruined as a result that you don't get an extra engine penalty free.

I agree with that. I was wondering how old the engine was, if it was in the first or second race that's not great for Red Bull.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Are Red Bull worried Mercedes are going to find form now? They’re really going a bit OTT with this, I get stuff like this probably happens behind the scenes but it’s so public it’s a bit bizarre

I dont think so, Red Bull is still the fastest car on the grid, the Merc upgrades have got them a bit closer, but not enough to worry RB.
Carring this on is not good, every single move Lewis and Max make will be watched and over analyzed.
Max takes out Lewis, some will see it has payback, Lewis takes out Max again and they will be screaming for blood.
Max and Horner out burst after the race has not helped. F1 needs this rivalry and needs some aggression , without it F1 is nothing.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Regardless I do find it a bit weird that if someone crashes (in this case Max) and the FIA deem someone else was (predominantly) at fault (in this case Hamilton) and the entire car including engine is ruined as a result that you don't get an extra engine penalty free.

you make a very good point.

 

[Snowjoe]

I dont think so, Red Bull is still the fastest car on the grid, the Merc upgrades have got them a bit closer, but not enough to worry RB.
Carring this on is not good, every single move Lewis and Max make will be watched and over analyzed.
Max takes out Lewis, some will see it has payback, Lewis takes out Max again and they will be screaming for blood.
Max and Horner out burst after the race has not helped. F1 needs this rivalry and needs some aggression , without it F1 is nothing.

Judging on this season I thought the RB will be faster too which is why I was surprised quite how OTT they’ve been given I’d still have a lot of confidence they can see this season through

 

[dinostar77]

The next race will be interesting, Lewis and Max I expect to be front row and I would not be shocked for the same thing to happen again.

No doubt it will happen again. No necessarily at Hungary as its a RB specialist track. Max is in a hurry to win his first WDC. Then as he gets older the maturity will kick in and he will become more about "its a marathon rather than race" mentality" that lewis has and become more measured and surgical in his track battles (and a better driver for it).

Anyway i think Lewis will have a huge fight just to finish 2nd or 3rd at Hungary. As engine power is moot at that track, the speed the car can negotiate the corners will be paramount. RB i.e. Max will win easily. Perez is an unknown. Norris and Leclerc/Sainz could easily be on the podium as could someone like Gasly.

2nd and fastest lap is probably the very best lewis can get from that track. One of the few over the years that have never suited the Mercedes with its low speed corners.

 

[GuyfromAustria]

Its Helmut Marko. what did you expect from that smug?

He's the worst. Just retire ffs, you're 78 years old.

 

[Leg-End]

Red Bull really need to just draw a line under it, bit embarrassing to keep going on about it.

Then again they are just a drinks company.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

No doubt it will happen again. No necessarily at Hungary as its a RB specialist track. Max is in a hurry to win his first WDC. Then as he gets older the maturity will kick in and he will become more about "its a marathon rather than race" mentality" that lewis has and become more measured and surgical in his track battles (and a better driver for it).

Anyway i think Lewis will have a huge fight just to finish 2nd or 3rd at Hungary. As engine power is moot at that track, the speed the car can negotiate the corners will be paramount. RB i.e. Max will win easily. Perez is an unknown. Norris and Leclerc/Sainz could easily be on the podium as could someone like Gasly.

2nd and fastest lap is probably the very best lewis can get from that track. One of the few over the years that have never suited the Mercedes with its low speed corners.

Lewis has won here 8 times , 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020.
I always have this down as a Merc track, 13 wins here.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Regardless I do find it a bit weird that if someone crashes (in this case Max) and the FIA deem someone else was (predominantly) at fault (in this case Hamilton) and the entire car including engine is ruined as a result that you don't get an extra engine penalty free.

This is a fair point.

But the way Red Bull have overreacted, feck em'.

 

[dinostar77]

Lewis has won here 8 times , 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020.
I always have this down as a Merc track, 13 wins here.

Well i stand corrected. I always though the hot conditions and low speed of hungary suited the RBs more.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Regardless I do find it a bit weird that if someone crashes (in this case Max) and the FIA deem someone else was (predominantly) at fault (in this case Hamilton) and the entire car including engine is ruined as a result that you don't get an extra engine penalty free.

I'm the opposite. I think he should get a grid penalty if he has to change his gearbox. Light the blue touch paper and stand well back.

 

[Dan]

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[Zlatan 7]

As more ex and current drivers that say it’s a racing incident the sillier red bull look

 

[VorZakone]

RB are lawyering up?

 

[ArjenIsM3]

I'm the opposite. I think he should get a grid penalty if he has to change his gearbox. Light the blue touch paper and stand well back.