F1 2024 Season

dinostar77

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Boring as anything, I love racing but I hate this joke of a series. Is there anything else worth watching instead? I have seen some indycar and formula e which I enjoyed but is now behind a paywall
The NASCAR version of DTS on netflix is well worth watching. Knowing nothing of NASCAR but love car racing, I found it really interesting, even the playoff format was rather clever. No matter how it plays out, they always go into the final race of the season with one of three drivers having the chance to be crowned champion.

A recent regular season race at Daytona I think ended with a 3 car photo finish as they all crossed the line on the last lap with their front bumpers almost in line with with each other.

Got to hand it to the Americans, they know how to make sport interesting to watch.
 

dinostar77

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The title at McLaren…?

Anyway, I hate this debate. You don’t need to criticise the other driver to praise the other one. Both are generational talents in my book, and the one you think is better is generally the one you prefer.
It's a pointless playground debate and I also don't like it. Every generation is different. The rules are different.
 

Amar__

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But in 2007 as a rookie to tie with Alonso who is still widely regarded as one of the best on the grid is some achievement.
Yes, that was still one of his most impressive seasons for me, and it was quite fun F1 back then.
 

Abizzz

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First race of the season and were back to the goat discussion. Did anybody actually watch the full race? Was it any good?
 

altodevil

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First of all, the GOAT stuff needs to be stopped. It's a horrible moniker.

Second, there is never going to be an undisputed best driver ever. This isn't a spec series, there's no real direct comparison available. You have to go by gut feeling and large sample sizes. Teammate stuff doesn't work because garages quite often work together on strategy, and get new parts at different times. You've also got bias within teams, which was obvious in 2007.

Third, based on the above it's clear that Hamilton/Alonso/Verstappen could be argued as the best we've ever seen. Vettel possibly the most reliable in a top top car.
 

RoadTrip

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First race of the season and were back to the goat discussion. Did anybody actually watch the full race? Was it any good?
I did, and it was pretty dull. I always expected Max to glide off into the distance despite some thinking it would be closer. What disappointed me though in particular was how unexciting it was between the other teams and midfield.
 

TwoSheds

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You'd think he ought to keep his mouth shut really but good on him if he's got any interest in "the right thing". Somehow I doubt it though, must be one of the few people in F1 as unlikeable as Horner old Jos.
 

dinostar77

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Whats the history to this beef? I never realised this was a thing.
Red Bull Austria want Horner gone they own 49% of the racing team. Red Bull Thailand family want Horner to stay and own 51% of the racing team. So Austria can't get rid of him.

Whether Helmet Marko or Jos Verstappen are making a power play isn't known. Or Austria want someone they can control. Who knows. It's likely Austria or Jos or helmet are the ones leaking the info. I'm confused as to why Jos would do so as his son is in a prime position to win this year's and next year's championships. Why rock the boat?

As an aside Jos has been seen having conversations with Toto Wolff. Which is more likely him looking towards Max's future away from RB maybe 2026 onwards. Which would make sense as no team has maintained dominance once there has been a fundamental rule change. Plus RB will be making their own power trains from scratch, which is a huge ask for any team which isn't a road car manufacturer.
 

Abizzz

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I did, and it was pretty dull. I always expected Max to glide off into the distance despite some thinking it would be closer. What disappointed me though in particular was how unexciting it was between the other teams and midfield.
Cheers, sounds like the recap I watched didn't skip that much then.
 

VorZakone

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First of all, the GOAT stuff needs to be stopped. It's a horrible moniker.

Second, there is never going to be an undisputed best driver ever. This isn't a spec series, there's no real direct comparison available. You have to go by gut feeling and large sample sizes. Teammate stuff doesn't work because garages quite often work together on strategy, and get new parts at different times. You've also got bias within teams, which was obvious in 2007.

Third, based on the above it's clear that Hamilton/Alonso/Verstappen could be argued as the best we've ever seen. Vettel possibly the most reliable in a top top car.
Schumacher not?
 

rimaldo

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You'd think he ought to keep his mouth shut really but good on him if he's got any interest in "the right thing". Somehow I doubt it though, must be one of the few people in F1 as unlikeable as Horner old Jos.
yeah, they really have a triumvirate of cnuts at the top. they’d be far more likeable if at least two of them left.
 

RoadTrip

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Red Bull Austria want Horner gone they own 49% of the racing team. Red Bull Thailand family want Horner to stay and own 51% of the racing team. So Austria can't get rid of him.

Whether Helmet Marko or Jos Verstappen are making a power play isn't known. Or Austria want someone they can control. Who knows. It's likely Austria or Jos or helmet are the ones leaking the info. I'm confused as to why Jos would do so as his son is in a prime position to win this year's and next year's championships. Why rock the boat?

As an aside Jos has been seen having conversations with Toto Wolff. Which is more likely him looking towards Max's future away from RB maybe 2026 onwards. Which would make sense as no team has maintained dominance once there has been a fundamental rule change. Plus RB will be making their own power trains from scratch, which is a huge ask for any team which isn't a road car manufacturer.
Interesting!
 

RoadTrip

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Different eras different drivers
I think you can draw some comparisons though. Or at least, there are things you can compare. For example being a racing driver isn’t just about driving the car. They play a huge role in development and setup. It’s pretty well documented that Schumacher had a huge hand in changing that team and car around.
 

dinostar77

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I think you can draw some comparisons though. Or at least, there are things you can compare. For example being a racing driver isn’t just about driving the car. They play a huge role in development and setup. It’s pretty well documented that Schumacher had a huge hand in changing that team and car around.
To a degree but there are many differences between eras.

There was unlimited testing in schmachers era and Ferrari were running custom Bridgestone tyres no one else had.

Senna/Prost era had even less reliability, less sensors. Semi automatic gear boxes etc.

Piquet / Fittipaldi era had manual gearbox, no power steering, even less reliability etc.

So and so forth the further back you go. Can you imagine max, Lewis and Fernando jumping out of the car before it hit a wall? No? That's what happens in fangio's era when they raced without any seatbelts.

As for their involvement in developing the car. Senna as far as I remember was the first who spent alot of time at the factory speaking to everyone and anyone at McLaren. However I don't know if Prost was similar, I'm lacking in that knowledge.

Schmacher brought a whole new level of fitness and professionalism in looking after himself that didn't exist in F1 before.

Hamilton and Rosberg took marginal gains to the extreme in trying to beat each other.

Drivers do play a large part in car development,but they also need to be lucky to be in the right car at the right time. The right time being that the rules work best for your team to tell detrement of others.

The F1 we watch now will be very different when the likes of piastri and antonelli are coming to the ends of their careers.
 

RoadTrip

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To a degree but there are many differences between eras.

There was unlimited testing in schmachers era and Ferrari were running custom Bridgestone tyres no one else had.

Senna/Prost era had even less reliability, less sensors. Semi automatic gear boxes etc.

Piquet / Fittipaldi era had manual gearbox, no power steering, even less reliability etc.

So and so forth the further back you go. Can you imagine max, Lewis and Fernando jumping out of the car before it hit a wall? No? That's what happens in fangio's era when they raced without any seatbelts.

As for their involvement in developing the car. Senna as far as I remember was the first who spent alot of time at the factory speaking to everyone and anyone at McLaren. However I don't know if Prost was similar, I'm lacking in that knowledge.

Schmacher brought a whole new level of fitness and professionalism in looking after himself that didn't exist in F1 before.

Hamilton and Rosberg took marginal gains to the extreme in trying to beat each other.

Drivers do play a large part in car development,but they also need to be lucky to be in the right car at the right time. The right time being that the rules work best for your team to tell detrement of others.

The F1 we watch now will be very different when the likes of piastri and antonelli are coming to the ends of their careers.
Oh of course. I’m not disagreeing. But, the ultimate point is that the best of the best at any given time are driving the cars on the grid. And so, there is an element of comparison that can be done simply by looking at their relative performance against their peers time.

Ultimately F1 is a team sport and so there is always the caveat of cars and competition and strategists and engineers and so on and so forth. But I don’t think all of that precludes being able to make a subjective view on comparing drivers within and in different eras. It just obviously has a big caveat. And hence why it’s so subjective as we each all weigh all the different elements differently.
 

Buster15

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Red Bull Austria want Horner gone they own 49% of the racing team. Red Bull Thailand family want Horner to stay and own 51% of the racing team. So Austria can't get rid of him.

Whether Helmet Marko or Jos Verstappen are making a power play isn't known. Or Austria want someone they can control. Who knows. It's likely Austria or Jos or helmet are the ones leaking the info. I'm confused as to why Jos would do so as his son is in a prime position to win this year's and next year's championships. Why rock the boat?

As an aside Jos has been seen having conversations with Toto Wolff. Which is more likely him looking towards Max's future away from RB maybe 2026 onwards. Which would make sense as no team has maintained dominance once there has been a fundamental rule change. Plus RB will be making their own power trains from scratch, which is a huge ask for any team which isn't a road car manufacturer.
What exactly is daddy Jos role in this.
Is he Max manager or just his daddy.
Seems like he is always there with Max who by now is plenty capable of dealing with RB on his own.
 

Buster15

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We not shock me if he was the leak
Good point.
While I am not a big fan of Horner, he is outstanding at his job.
But every time I see Jos Verstappen, he reminds me of the Grim Reaper. Just don't trust him.
 

TwoSheds

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Oh of course. I’m not disagreeing. But, the ultimate point is that the best of the best at any given time are driving the cars on the grid. And so, there is an element of comparison that can be done simply by looking at their relative performance against their peers time.

Ultimately F1 is a team sport and so there is always the caveat of cars and competition and strategists and engineers and so on and so forth. But I don’t think all of that precludes being able to make a subjective view on comparing drivers within and in different eras. It just obviously has a big caveat. And hence why it’s so subjective as we each all weigh all the different elements differently.
I think one thing it's important to distinguish is how much safer it is now if you want to drive like a loony bin so just judging on number of titles against older drivers would be foolish. Even in the 90s it was a different level of danger compared to before so Schumacher onwards should be judged differently to e.g. Fangio, Senna, Prost, Stewart etc.
 

Tibs

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What is the Horner situation? What's he alleged to have done and there is some leaked emails or something??
 

ArjenIsM3

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What exactly is daddy Jos role in this.
Is he Max manager or just his daddy.
Seems like he is always there with Max who by now is plenty capable of dealing with RB on his own.
Jos is just a cnut really and it's well documented he doesn't like Horner. With all the things Jos has done he's the last person who should say anything about this. He's the sort of man who punches his family, gets into fights all the time and even drove into his ex at one point FFS.
 

Buster15

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Jos is just a cnut really and it's well documented he doesn't like Horner. With all the things Jos has done he's the last person who should say anything about this. He's the sort of man who punches his family, gets into fights all the time and even drove into his ex at one point FFS.
Can't disagree.
 

Leg-End

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Never thought I would be defending Horner but Jos’s comments are genuinely unreal given his history. Shit driver, shit person.
 

Xeno

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Third, based on the above it's clear that Hamilton/Alonso/Verstappen could be argued as the best we've ever seen. Vettel possibly the most reliable in a top top car.
There are zero people in the world arguing Alonso is the GOAT. Or Vettel. Wtf?
 

hobbers

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If Jos wanted rid of Horner he should have the self awareness to keep himself off the radar. Because he's one of the few people even more widely regarded as being an odious thundercnut.
 

Redplane

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Assuming this is even true ofc: but if it is - it would support the rumors that its the Austrian branch of RB who wants to get rid of him while the present day majority stake (Thai?) - does not. Having said that, I hope whoever did the investigation and came to their findings was as impartial as possible.