It was that bad yet he wasn't forced to resign?
F1 2024 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
No need to resign if he has the backing of the majority Thai shareholders.
What a mess for RB.
Jos seems like a slimy bastard, I bet he's somehow involved with the leaks.
Jos seems like a slimy bastard, I bet he's somehow involved with the leaks.
Alpine has announced a series of organisational changes across its technical teams following the resignation of Technical Director Matt Harman and Head of Aerodynamics Dirk de Beer.
Alpine is in a huge mess.
Jos Verstappen wont be attending Saudi GP. Threatened to take Max to mercedes if horner isnt fired. Looks like max aint happy with dad.
Rumour mill has it Jos was in some sort of relationship, or really wanted to be, with Horner's PA.
He's going to end up getting disowned because Max wont be jumping out of any team that has Newey in it any time soon.
But anything that gets rid of Jos from the paddock is a good thing.
Also claims that Horner instigated the 3rd party investigation into his conduct himself, because he got wind that Mintzlaff was going to sack him and there were even press releases ready to go.
This could be massive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68465516
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68465516
No Mohammed, no no Mohammed that is so not right!
Surprise surprise.
Has to be the most predictable bombshell in F1 in a decade.
theres only one result that should have been overturned and we all know what that is.
Exactly.
What the hell was the benefit in Alonso getting/not getting a penalty? What was riding on it?
They re not gonna go back and take Lewis' 2008 title.
Ladies and gentlemen, brace yourselves for an epic night of Formula 1 heavyweight boxing!
In the red corner, weighing in at something and fighting out of Austria and the Netherlands, the undisputed unusual pairing of them all, Jos, Toto and the Austrian contingent of Red Bull!
And in the blue corner, weighing in at some other random weight and fighting out of England, Thailand and Dubai, the global trifecta, Mohammed, Christian and the Thai contingent of Red Bull.
Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuumble!
In the red corner, weighing in at something and fighting out of Austria and the Netherlands, the undisputed unusual pairing of them all, Jos, Toto and the Austrian contingent of Red Bull!
And in the blue corner, weighing in at some other random weight and fighting out of England, Thailand and Dubai, the global trifecta, Mohammed, Christian and the Thai contingent of Red Bull.
Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuumble!
This is the most f1 season I've seen in a while all this off the track drama nonsense being more entertaining then the sport itself. Andretti, Lewis/Ferrari, Horner and now this. Drive to Survive next year is gonna be all this and no races.
I’ve never watched Drive to Survive, but if they did a whole season covering all this behind the scenes stuff I’d be tuning in 
Pretty much all sports are doing their best to put me off watching these days.
Pretty much all sports are doing their best to put me off watching these days.
Nah they ll conveniently dance around it like anything else truly impactful.
F1 is a right mess, shite racing with more drama off the track, not sure why anyone would want to join or invest into this circus.
F1 basically been doing a United for a long time. Putting dodgy incompetent people into positions of power and influence.
Basically sports and large organizations just about anytime anywhere. It was just easier to get away with shit before.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull-f1-civil-war-verstappen-horner-endgame/
"....But who is behind Jos? Is he speaking on behalf of Team Verstappen? His son as well? Where does Helmut Marko stand in this, and Red Bull GmbH’s Austrian contingent including executive Oliver Mintzlaff? What about Mark Mateschitz, son of Red Bull co-founder Dietrich?
All have been linked with siding against Horner of late...."
"..Is there, maybe, a desire for a team principal even more amenable to prioritising Max?
"...Or is it even wilder, and this is part of a much grander, surprising play, as what Team Verstappen really wants is to have an escape plan?
"...If Red Bull’s engine progress for 2026 is insufficient, it may be in Verstappen’s interest to be eyeing some escape ramps. Who knows what opportunities Horner being axed could facilitate.
There is already some very tentative speculation about moving somewhere else, like Mercedes. That feels like a stretch at the moment but the question is at least being asked and team boss Toto Wolff didn’t go out of his way to shut it down when asked if he could sign Verstappen as soon as 2025...."
"....But who is behind Jos? Is he speaking on behalf of Team Verstappen? His son as well? Where does Helmut Marko stand in this, and Red Bull GmbH’s Austrian contingent including executive Oliver Mintzlaff? What about Mark Mateschitz, son of Red Bull co-founder Dietrich?
All have been linked with siding against Horner of late...."
"..Is there, maybe, a desire for a team principal even more amenable to prioritising Max?
"...Or is it even wilder, and this is part of a much grander, surprising play, as what Team Verstappen really wants is to have an escape plan?
"...If Red Bull’s engine progress for 2026 is insufficient, it may be in Verstappen’s interest to be eyeing some escape ramps. Who knows what opportunities Horner being axed could facilitate.
There is already some very tentative speculation about moving somewhere else, like Mercedes. That feels like a stretch at the moment but the question is at least being asked and team boss Toto Wolff didn’t go out of his way to shut it down when asked if he could sign Verstappen as soon as 2025...."
Also anyone find it suspect that Ben Sulyaem asked Max to publicly support Horner earlier today and now this allegation appears against him?
Someone powerful desperately wants Horner gone.
Someone powerful desperately wants Horner gone.
Yeah it's in a dreadful position at the minute, the off track drama can survive if the actual racing is good, but when the product they're punting is particularly dull then it's a downward spiral. The Sulyaem story today is just mind blowing and his integrity has been shot, I'll be surprised if he lasts.
I think Max will definitely have his eye on moving in 2026.
If you're going to back a horse for a new engine you wouldn't instinctively back the team that has just set up the facilities and have no prior experience, beyond working alongside Honda, over Mercedes or Ferrari.
Imagine Mercedes give a year contract to Alonso and then replace him with Max in 2026...
If you're going to back a horse for a new engine you wouldn't instinctively back the team that has just set up the facilities and have no prior experience, beyond working alongside Honda, over Mercedes or Ferrari.
Imagine Mercedes give a year contract to Alonso and then replace him with Max in 2026...
Far strangers things have happened. To your point, Merc is probably far more likely to nail engine regs and clearly has been on top the last time engine power was more important than aero. Add to that that Toto has long been a big Max fan. Hell even Newey might be interested in one final new challenge before he retires. Merc powertrain+Max+Newey could arguably be the dream team of the century.
Of course that's not to take away from Horner, the whole thing is all so weird. Clearly the man has built a really effective team and legacy since he's been there - but the heavy handed and ruthless approach he takes I am sure has ruffled many feathers over the years.
In some ways none of this is all that unusual either. High level dirty politics has long been a Hallmark of Formula 1. Even during the times, or rather - especially during the times, when some people seem to think the on track stuff was more interesting. If anything, its been relatively quiet for a while.
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F1 is a shambles on and off the track, off the track politics and backstabbing seems to be the norm, Bernie was no angel but it was never this bad.
On track it’s the most one-sides it has ever been , I would say slightly worse than the Mercedes domination.
F1 needs to clean its house up or fans will stop watching and or buying tickets.
There was a time when I would drop everything to watch, now if I have something else to do F1 takes a back seat.
On track it’s the most one-sides it has ever been , I would say slightly worse than the Mercedes domination.
F1 needs to clean its house up or fans will stop watching and or buying tickets.
There was a time when I would drop everything to watch, now if I have something else to do F1 takes a back seat.
He cant last, he had to step down, in his position even a hint of corruption, must mean his job is untenable
Whatever is going on. None of us will ever even get close to getting but -maybe -half the story. Nor will the journos, so I'm avoiding all press on this unless it happens to be linked here. Let's get rid of all the team bosses and FIA and F1 and just make it free for all for the drivers and engineers alone. Can't wait to see what the next story being blown into the ether will bring
I agree with you. It's such a mess in so many ways. So many politics behind the scenes. For example, Williams can't upgrade their very antiquated and outdated infrastructure. James Volwes asked for their infrastructure to be exempt from the cost cap. But FIA said no. So Williams are stuck in a catch 22, spend the money on the car, but constantly being behind the curve or take hit on the car for 5 -6 seasons so infrastructure can be updated to modern standards. They can't win. They can never come back to their glory years
However AM and McLaren got to build new wind tunnels outside of the cost cap.
Before the cost cap, the big three had teams of 700-800 personel. They are all upto 1500 personel while under the cost cap.
You need a minimum of 700 personel to be a top team. Some teams i.e. RB Cash App have a team of 100 personel, how can they ever compete ?
The bottom 3-4 teams on the grid don't even hit the cost cap limit. How can they compete? How has the cost cap levelled the playing field?
Alpine have the least powerful engine on the grid. The other manufacturers having increased the power output under the banner of "reliability". When alpine asked for an exception to be allowed to bring their engine's power output inline with the other engine manufacturers they were told no.
So until 2026, they are down on power output compared to the rest.
There's so much slight of hand, politics and bullshit in modern F1. It's a pale imitation of the product I grew up with in the 80s and 90s.
It's been like this since the stock market went to shit in 08, in some form or another, remember the token system,
The engine token system was far worse for the sport than the cost cap.
Cost cap is fine it just needs better implementation on inclusions and exclusions
Far better f1 having a gap of less than 1 second per lap from first to last than 3 or 4 seconds.
Cost cap is fine it just needs better implementation on inclusions and exclusions
Far better f1 having a gap of less than 1 second per lap from first to last than 3 or 4 seconds.
It's in a awful spot. Too much meddling and pandering by the Americans, and they dropped the ball with these last regs.
I've watched since the early 80's. I've been a Williams fan for as long as I remember and still am. I would watch every race like I would every United game regardless of where I was in the world. And the last couple of years has left me feeling why do I bother.
Biden personally approved the new regs. Those pesky Americans.
Not exactly the kind of thing worth ruining your career over now is it.
Just enjoy the drama. I honestly don't think any of this is any worse than has always existed in the sport. It just gets a lot more attention now, rightfully or wrongly. The amount of shit people got away with in the 80/90s and even 2000s likely pales in comparison to today's soap drama. A close colleague of mine used to represent high level employee issues before my time (60/70s into 80s) and it makes the shit we terminate people for these days seem very lax. I wish I could go into more detail.