I know this. Which is why I said it's a cultural difference. Which isn't accepted here, rightly or wrongly.what he says below. I learnt at age 13, never to translate things from foreign languages to English and vice versa, word for word in literal translations. It makes no sense and just does not work
Unfortunately as pointed out earlier, this is how Spanish speakers speak. 600million odd people worldwide. Their language uses physical features to talk about people. You are in a way suggesting they cannot speak Spanish as this is the normal way of speaking their language. You are trying to force them to adapt their native language to suit English football rules. I don't know what other countries this would be enforced. What is this novel Spanish that is allowed on social media in England? What shall we name it? If you was describing an unnamed black girl, you would say "La Negra" in Spanish. So are we going to provide them a list of other options in Spanish? "you can speak in Spanish, just not properly"
The FA may have to put together a pseudo spanish language for them that can replace their dialect. Each language has different rules and I understood this from school. You cannot simply just apply English rules to foreign languages. It won't work. it would just be easier if English speaker didn't bother trying to translate things in languages they don't understand nor even want to learn.
FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break
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In general the quality of football pundits used by the British television is atrocious. I have to watch Michael Owen weekly. Now that's what I call offensive.
Half of the Filipinos in the UK would be charged for racism in this case as many of them may come from Negros Island.
Honestly this whole thing is insanity. I saw it yesterday and thought people would understand the colloquial context and move on with their lives.
But no, the FA and the English linguistic police have decided they are the arbiters of language around the world. They do this, whilst barely peering into the abuse that happens in their own back garden.
If they were to take a proper look at home, they'd see vile, abusive terms used to slag off footballers in THIS country, by ENGLISH people who know exactly what they are saying. Be that in the terraces, or on social media.
But to prove a point, I expect Cavani to get a 3 match ban. Which says it all.
But no, the FA and the English linguistic police have decided they are the arbiters of language around the world. They do this, whilst barely peering into the abuse that happens in their own back garden.
If they were to take a proper look at home, they'd see vile, abusive terms used to slag off footballers in THIS country, by ENGLISH people who know exactly what they are saying. Be that in the terraces, or on social media.
But to prove a point, I expect Cavani to get a 3 match ban. Which says it all.
That doesn't matter apparently. It's all about what people who don't know what it means think it means and the FA has guidelines for things people think things about. 3 Match BAN!
But he's not in Uruguay, he's a high profile footballer playing for one of the most popular teams in the world, his team should know better he's not an average Joe.
Scousers gonna scouse.
Wait to he learns about economics.
Did he use Spanish or English? How was it used? As an insult? Did that person complain?
If this is true, it should be the end of it. The FA already has precedent. Cavani was not being abusive or insulting, quite the opposite.
I don't think we should assume people coming from a different culture automatically know what not to do when coming to a new one, just because they are high profile. I expect he doesn't know much about UK culture since he has hardly lived here.
Definition of something which wouldn't be common and so cannot be called common sense.
Just for clarity as I don't speak Spanish, is there no way to address a black person that doesn't refer to the colour of their skin?what he says below. I learnt at age 13, never to translate things from foreign languages to English and vice versa, word for word in literal translations. It makes no sense and just does not work
Unfortunately as pointed out earlier, this is how Spanish speakers speak. 600million odd people worldwide. Their language uses physical features to talk about people. You are in a way suggesting they cannot speak Spanish as this is the normal way of speaking their language. You are trying to force them to adapt their native language to suit English football rules. I don't know what other countries this would be enforced. What is this novel Spanish that is allowed on social media in England? What shall we name it? If you was describing an unnamed black girl, you would say "La Negra" in Spanish. So are we going to provide them a list of other options in Spanish? "you can speak in Spanish, just not properly"
The FA may have to put together a pseudo spanish language for them that can replace their dialect
The FA has since changed its rules.
To be honest I think we pretty much agree. As said in a famous meme "it is what it iiiiiiis"
I don’t think it’s known at this time or at least I haven’t seen anything which confirms the position. I think it’s the difference between a 3 match ban or no ban though. If he’s white with jet black hair for example, there’s no possible way that the FA can say that it’s a comment based on the colour of his skin and Rule E3 won’t apply.
Yes by their name, but that's what they do there. They also I don't believe have a term for "mate", its kind of their equivalent I guess.
Look at what you do Cavani, you're turning half the caf into King Kennys.
He is not guilty but will learn from it and move on. We should move on as well.
He is not guilty but will learn from it and move on. We should move on as well.
If you know their name you could use this I guess.
Have to say, I've read some very strange takes in here, even taking into account there will be a rush to defend a player who plays for your own team.
Firstly, let me just say I don't think Cavani meant any offence, was using it in a derogatory way or should be banned for this. However:
-Nobody is policing the Spanish or Portugese languages or telling them they cannot speak how they want to. If they want to refer to black people or darker skinned people in South America as negrito and they are happy with that, then go ahead. But when you move somewhere else, you need to be mindful of the different cultural norms in that country. Nobody is telling Cavani to not go and say negrito to his heart's content in Uruguay or going to Uruguay and telling them to stop using it.
-Its interesting to me to hear people use the 'little Arab' example. Nobody in the Arab world uses the phrase 'little Arab' but interestingly, some Arabs use 'Abd' or 'slave' as a term to refer to black people. It isn't meant to be a term of endearment for sure but also isn't really meant to be an offensive word as such either. I have had that directed at me by people in Middle Eastern countries, whether they know I speak Arabic or not. It is socially acceptable there to do so yet I would say if someone moved here, they should of course be strongly discouraged fvrom using that word in the West. If they want to carry on using it in Iraq or Egypt, nobody is telling them to stop.
-The British don't think they rule the world ffs and this has nothing to do with that.
-The FA have nothing to do with any racism in British society and they cannot police, or 'look at' anything outside of their jurisdiction, which are the English football leagues and English national team.
Firstly, let me just say I don't think Cavani meant any offence, was using it in a derogatory way or should be banned for this. However:
-Nobody is policing the Spanish or Portugese languages or telling them they cannot speak how they want to. If they want to refer to black people or darker skinned people in South America as negrito and they are happy with that, then go ahead. But when you move somewhere else, you need to be mindful of the different cultural norms in that country. Nobody is telling Cavani to not go and say negrito to his heart's content in Uruguay or going to Uruguay and telling them to stop using it.
-Its interesting to me to hear people use the 'little Arab' example. Nobody in the Arab world uses the phrase 'little Arab' but interestingly, some Arabs use 'Abd' or 'slave' as a term to refer to black people. It isn't meant to be a term of endearment for sure but also isn't really meant to be an offensive word as such either. I have had that directed at me by people in Middle Eastern countries, whether they know I speak Arabic or not. It is socially acceptable there to do so yet I would say if someone moved here, they should of course be strongly discouraged fvrom using that word in the West. If they want to carry on using it in Iraq or Egypt, nobody is telling them to stop.
-The British don't think they rule the world ffs and this has nothing to do with that.
-The FA have nothing to do with any racism in British society and they cannot police, or 'look at' anything outside of their jurisdiction, which are the English football leagues and English national team.
No idea... that's a whole new thread?!
I'm not saying its right or wrong, I just get the impression from people on this thread who speak the language and/or come from the country/continent and/or have grown up with the culture, that their use of descriptive words is used in a certain way... that happens to be different to say, most Western cultures.
It's right to question what people say/do at times, but we need to listen to the answers and gain a better understanding rather than be judge/jury and impose one groups views on another's? imo.
What some people are also forgetting (or ignoring) is that just because people laugh along with funny nicknames doesn't mean those on the other end are secretly OK with it. There is something called peer pressure and just because your chubby friend is seemingly OK with being called e.g. "fatboy" in your friends circle doesn't mean he is very happy about it.
Pretty much, its unfortunate
Do you not see the irony of saying "Black person" and then suggesting someone else shouldn't talk about the colour of the skin. You did literally the same thing.
Spanish - Grasias Negrito or something so in a friendly manner.
Woman on CH 4 just used the phrase "Threw a Paddy" and I am deeply offended..
Deeply.
Deeply.
This morning maybe?
I know its not the same because I'm sure Cavani didn't mean it in the way that its being investigated for, but I can't help but think of the Simpsons quote 'Its German, it means "the Bart, the".'
There is. Usually our names would suffice.
I've had some incredible time in South America, both as a traveller and working as a doctor too. Its a beautiful continent, with varied peoples, foods, scenery and even languages too. I've thought more than a few times of upping sticks and moving back to Colombia or living in Chile, if it wasn't for the massive upheaval to family.
But it does make me laugh a bit when people try to claim there's no or little racism there or that 'European or North American' cultures or sensitivities don't apply there.
People , including some who I grew to consider friends, did call me negrito there. I'm not going to pretend I was enamoured with it but I knew it wasn't meant in any kind of offensive way at all. If they were to move to the UK though and continued to call me negrito here (and other black people), I would take them aside and ask them not to do so here. Not difficult.
Cavani's been following him for a few years judging by where he (pablofer) is on Cavani's follow list - fair bit down and listed in reverse chronological order so people who he's followed earlier are lower down
It's as racist as asking for a negroni cocktail at a bar.
It is translated as Cheers Black. If any other footballer posted those words they would be banned simple as that.
We know he is probably not racist and this was not intended as a racial slur but that does not matter.
There is no point going on and on about native tongues and translations. The rules are clear.
He will get banned and we will have to accept it
We know he is probably not racist and this was not intended as a racial slur but that does not matter.
There is no point going on and on about native tongues and translations. The rules are clear.
He will get banned and we will have to accept it
Dont translate it ffs!!
That's a very basic outlook, the world and languages simply don't work in this basic way.
We don't have to and shouldn't accept it, it's a ridiculous concept.
Do you mind linking the relevant portion?
Because Suarez said "I kicked you because you're black." After Evra asked him "why did you kick me?"So wait, was he referring to us wearing the black kit?
I dont understand why else he would say that in a post about scoring a goal/ winning the game.
*Edit. ah just seeing the comments about apparently what he said loosely translates to 'my friend' in Uruguay?
If so, this is surely gonna throw up some massive arguments why its ok for Cavani to use it but not Suarez.
You should be banned for repeating that. I don't care. A ban must be ordered. How dare you say that in todays climate with everything going on. I'm offended and the rules of the forum are clear.
I know someone who was sacked for calling an Irish lad Paddy when it wasn't his name.
The only problem with this translation is that you're transalting something that doesn't have a translation into English.
I'm going to go on a limb here: No one actually cares about this except for some dudes at FA that go out of their way to be offended on behalf of other people.
I'd be more than fine with the FA educating Cavani on the meaning of the word *HERE*. But punishments for racism should be reserved for: actual racism and bigotry.
well, it looks like the FA is offended by something that didn't offend the recipient
in a few words the FA tells us how to feel, moreso, it's telling the recipient to be offended
stupid, stupid, stupid FA
What? You can't decide what someone meant because you don't understand how they said it. Why does your crude translation have to be the barometer?
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