Carrick was or of last seasons best players in the league, the season before Valencia was one of the best. Adding in Nani, Giggs and Cleverley, it's a midfield that is nowhere near as bad as many think but yes certainly needs improvement.
Fabregas
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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Yes, but what do you value him at? More or less than Fabregas?
No, not at all, I just think he's off
You'd just feck Rooney off like that...some people!
35M euros in the end, which since they'd want their money back sets the price at 45M to you (10M to Arsenal).
Yes.
But the more common first approach is more like, "Suppose we were to offer you 30m for Cesc subject to the usual ifs and buts, how do you suppose you might respond?"
That way your bid doesn't get rejected and the other team can say, "There are no bids."
History tells us that Barca hardly ever is looking for profit on their purchases
This
You'd just feck Rooney off like that...some people!
Why would we have to pay £45 million? Arsenal get 50% of any profit, so we could bid the same as you sold him for, meaning you get nothing.
They can sell him 35M EUR and you will get nothing from it. Why to sell him for 10m more in order to give you those money. You have 50% of the profit from the transfer fee, right?
I think they are around the same level of quality, I'd pay a bit more for Fab seeing as we need a midfielder and I'd expect a team needing a striker to be willing to pay a bit more for Rooney.
Taken all the current circumstances into consideration, a straight swap Rooney for Fabregas would be ideal for us.
Do you honestly think we've got much of a chance in signing a player who has recently said he wants to stay at Barca and all the rumours are rubbish. Not only that but Barca have just lost Thiago, so he is more needed by them than before. I'm sure we want him, who doesn't want a world class player? Do we think he's likely to come? I don't think so.
I think we are bidding knowing there isn't much of a chance but trying our luck anyway. We can say we've tried to sign a top player. If in the unlikely event Barca want to sell and he wants to leave then awesome but that's what I see it as.. unlikely. If United see Fabregas as likely to come here then I'll be amazed and very happy. What do you think?
I don't know anything behind the scenes obviously but this is my assumption.
Yeah, they get 50% of the profit on any transfer, which appears to be any cash over 35m euros. But, think about it; it still makes sense for Barca to push for more cash beyond the 35m euros level - they take 50% of every cent above that level, which is better than settling for just 35m euros.
In a roundabout way, Pete is right - we're going to have to pay a fair bit more to land him.
Not being reactionary, but I'd say Fabregas would be more valuable than Rooney at the moment, if only to fill a gaping hole in our side.
We mere posters can't know anything for sure, but we should be confident United management know what they're doing. The bid has to be real and has to have been thought through. So you have to be right that United management know something we don't either about Fabregas's desire to leave and/or Barcelona's willingness to sell.
With respect to the right of first refusal, there is reason to believe Fabregas might want to move back to Arsenal. We here on the caf can't know what he wants, but what we do know is that it could be very difficult for Fabregas to return to a club he said adios to once before. There's also the question of whether Arsenal even need Fabregas, in light of the solid form of Cazorla (NB: I think he's overrated but gooners love him), the promise of Wilshere, solid depth in midfield behind those two and Arsenal's needs elsewhere. So if our bid goes up to 40m -- and I would say Fabregas would be worth that much -- one has to wonder whether Arsenal can stomach matching that price tag. I'd say no.
There's also the question of whether Fabregas would want to rejoin a club that has gone trophyless for 8 seasons and shows little hope of ending that drought this season. I'd say no.
Still, it's hard to see this one happening. Fabregas is a Barcelona man through and through and he's going to get plenty of playing time this season and it's reasonable to believe Barcelona will make it to a CL semifinal at the very least. It's quite a big step down to any club, apart from Bayern, from Barcelona.
So when you make a bid it first gets verbally accepted and then the legal contract is drawn up which, when it is signed by all parties, becomes binding? Thus meaning that making low bids just for shits and giggles has no actual risk...even though I don't believe that clubs engage in this at this level.
Which is why Barca would bleed you for every penny if they were to sell. They aren't stupid.
We get 50% of anything over our byback price which is set at 25M euros. That means that barca need to get 45M to get their 35M back.
Yeah. On the other side, Barca were never the brightest when it comes to transfers, just remember Eto'o and Ibrahimovic. If they are going to sell him (which I seriously doubt) 35m would be as much as they'll get. Unless there is a bidding war for him.
A decent shout, but swap deals are really very rare.
We pay 45, Barca get 40.
Arse pay 45, Barca get 40 (arsenal take 5 back).
Arse pay 40, Barca get 37.5.
Can't see it making a big difference.
Because teams that win the title tend to not have poor transfer records. On account of having signed players good enough to win the league.
The state of our defence - De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Evra, Rafael - and the state of our attack - RVP, Hernandez, Kagawa - is far from shocking, you just chose to be selective in your examples to manipulate the argument in your favour.
£35m to Barcelona and £10m to Arsenal for Fabregas? Deal.
Another young midfielder with defensive capabilities for sub £15m and we're laughing all the way to the warchest. £60m well spent
Another young midfielder with defensive capabilities for sub £15m and we're laughing all the way to the warchest. £60m well spent
You're sure about this? They are even worse than United when it comes to selling players.
It all depends on if Cesc wants to go back though.
Being honest to myself. I'd have taken Thiago over Sex anyday. That said, Sex is still a fantastic player, I just think Thiago has the ability to do all he can and more. We could use that fantasy and unpredictability to our play. Nani used to be our guy for that, but we don't know the deal with him right now.
I don't really see him having a burning desire to play for Moyes over the man who made him the player he is today.
Verbally, by email, fax, carrier pigeon, something like that I believe. But yes, from what I gather they could have done it for shits and giggles.
Zaha will help in that department IMO.
I agree with all that. Two bits in bold, I just want to elaborate on:
1) There's certain players who clubs never bother bidding for - think of Scholes and Giggs at United. There has probably been the odd discreet enquiry over the years, and that's all. For an enquiry to move to the next stage - a bid - I'd say the bidding club needs some encouragement. Given that we've bid, I'm going out on a limb to say that a) we've sounded out Cesc, or b) we've sounded out Barca, or c) we've sounded out both parties. There's no way in hell we've just decided to bid 30m euros without some sort of encouragement.
2) For me, Arsenal are no nearer to seriously challenging now compared to when he left. If you look at their current squad compared to the side Cesc was leaving, I'd say they've regressed. In that context, is a player entering his peak years going to go back, merely on the promise that they're set to break their trophy drought? I know I'm biased, but he'd be an idiot to do that. Speaking bullishly, if Cesc is prepared to leave, I'd say we'd be far more attractive a destination than Arsenal. Van Persie moved directly, so why not Cesc?
For some reason I just can't see this transfer happening especially given the changes in the demographics of their first team following Thiago's departure and the ageing of several of their key men. Further given the lengths that they went to get the lad back to Spain, it just seems unlikely that they would be willing to part with him for the sums we are quoted to have tabled. I am afraid this is may be a PR exercise to make the club appear active in hunt of high calibre players but may ultimately prove fruitless as a result of its very daring nature. I hope to proven wrong. We ought to be concentrating on more attainable targets rather than wishful thinking
I don't see him having a burning desire to get involved in a fourth place battle with Spurs again over being a genuine league and cup contender.
Moved into a new flat with the gf, no internet till friday!! Xoxoxox
Didn't Inter come sniffing around for Giggs a few times?
It's not Moyes Vs Wenger though is it? It's United Vs Arsenal which is a different prospect.
He might want to win trophies, and United's squad is better equipped to do so than Arsenal's. He left the man who made him the player he is today because he wanted to win trophies.
There's simply no way that this is on, bid or no bid. I know players lie, but why on earth would Fabregas say
if there was any chance at all that a bid would convince him to leave? Even if we offered Barca enough to tempt them, they can't force a player with a contract to leave.
"I’ve always said that I’m happy at Barca. Whoever says that I’m leaving doesn’t know me and has never spoken with me.
Nor have they spoken with my agent, because he knows I don’t want him to talk with other people about me.
I’m very private and I don’t even talk about these things with my family.
If someone says anything that isn’t that I want to play at Barca, it’s completely absurd”
if there was any chance at all that a bid would convince him to leave? Even if we offered Barca enough to tempt them, they can't force a player with a contract to leave.
Still going out with the pixie then?
Normally they'd be around the same value but since it's Rooney's second attempt at leaving the club, he only has two years left on his massive deal that we're not even discussing an extension for, and we'd save up around £10m if we sold him now instead of next Summer his value could go down significantly. I won't be surprised if Rooney leaves for slightly less than £30m while we sign Fabregas for north of £30m.
Oh. I was under the impression, based on this guy's tweets, that it was 50% of any profit made above the original fee...
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