Plant0x84
Shame we’re aren’t more like Brighton
Sad that this thread rears its head every match day. I created a monster
Should have had both goals. His slow reaction to the second - unbelievable! Even if it was well placed and along the ground it wasn't hard hit. Terrible keeper!Strange bump
It’s banged into the bottom corner. The agendas on here are something else.Should have had both goals. His slow reaction to the second - unbelievable! Even if it was well placed and along the ground it wasn't hard hit. Terrible keeper!
He stopped it, I think he was a bit unlucky it bounced right back off Bowen’s leg and in.Thought he was weak for the first goal.
You changed the blimmin title not too long ago...Sad that this thread rears its head every match day. I created a monster
Should have had both goals. His slow reaction to the second - unbelievable! Even if it was well placed and along the ground it wasn't hard hit. Terrible keeper!
100%. Although, obviously, many will try.He was unlucky for the first with the way it bounced back onto Bowen, can’t blame him for that.
On the bolded part - goalkeeper shotstopping ability must be one of the most accurate stats you can find in football, and Onana as things stand shotstopping is on De Gea levels in his prime time. Needless to say Onana has been shite in CL mostly because clear and obvious errors. But in the EPL he's actually 2nd best.He hasn't been an upgrade over Dea Gea. He has some ball skills? Cool, we still almost always play it long. We lack any kind of composure to play in tight spaces. He's shot stopping is subpar and he makes easy saves look like world beaters.
Just haven't been impressed with him at all. A ball playing GK was never what this club needed considering all the other deficiencies up and down the pitch.
Even Bowen said in his interview after the game he messed it up as he wanted to cut it onto his left foot but that he got lucky with the rebound.He stopped it, I think he was a bit unlucky it bounced right back off Bowen’s leg and in.
It's really not. Measuring accurately a keeper's goalstopping ability is as complex as expected goals or other multifactorial stats. That being said, Onana is rating pretty high in the PL.On the bolded part - goalkeeper shotstopping ability must be one of the most accurate stats you can find in football, and Onana as things stand shotstopping is on De Gea levels in his prime time. Needless to say Onana has been shite in CL mostly because clear and obvious errors. But in the EPL he's actually 2nd best.
You disagree that PSxG is one of the most accurate stats out there? I think it's very good - on a big sample it reduces luck factor to minimum, and really shows if a gk is good at stopping shots or not. It also passes the "eye test" - Alisson was ranked top on that parameter in last few years overall, and De Gea golden (in his prime time) was also top.It's really not. Measuring accurately a keeper's goalstopping ability is as complex as expected goals or other multifactorial stats. That being said, Onana is rating pretty high in the PL.
I've been banging this drum for weeks. It's his terrible technique, he's always going for the punch/palm/scoop as a first option rather than a catch. The perfect example is the second free kick against Galatasary; if you watch closely he has his hands in a fist the whole time. Then when it's a fairly tame shot he should be catching he can't readjust from the fisted hands and so tries some stupid fecking punch scoop instead.Even when he stops a shot, it looks somehow strange. Do you notice this too, or is it just me?
I might have misunderstood your post a bit. What I meant is that it's not very accurate in the sense that the formula is complexe and the factors taken into account can be subjective depending on the model. It's not as accurate as a straightforward "completed pass" stat for exemple. But it's true that if done right, it gives you a pretty good idea about a keeper shotstopping skill. As you mentionned you need a decent sample.You disagree that PSxG is one of the most accurate stats out there? I think it's very good - on a big sample it reduces luck factor to minimum, and really shows if a gk is good at stopping shots or not. It also passes the "eye test" - Alisson was ranked top on that parameter in last few years overall, and De Gea golden (in his prime time) was also top.
It is complex because it's based on xG model, but if every gk is evaluated against the same rules, then it's pretty good. Same goes for finishing chances.
It won’t tell you where the shots they save end up. Good keepers get the ball out of danger. Onana will push his shots back in to the danger zone.You disagree that PSxG is one of the most accurate stats out there? I think it's very good - on a big sample it reduces luck factor to minimum, and really shows if a gk is good at stopping shots or not. It also passes the "eye test" - Alisson was ranked top on that parameter in last few years overall, and De Gea golden (in his prime time) was also top.
It is complex because it's based on xG model, but if every gk is evaluated against the same rules, then it's pretty good. Same goes for finishing chances.
That's one of the flaws I indicated yeah. If Onana stops a very hard shot and then deflects back to an opponent that scores an unsaveable goal, the 1st shot will improve his PSxG stat a lot while the second will have no influence and in the end, he still conceded a goal.It won’t tell you where the shots they save end up. Good keepers get the ball out of danger. Onana will push his shots back in to the danger zone.
No, it's not "subjective" because every GK is evaluated against the same model. "Completed passess" stat is accurate but doesn't tell you anything in isolation, PSxG vs goals conceded tells you quite accurately if the GK is a good shotstopper (not goalkeeper!).I might have misunderstood your post a bit. What I meant is that it's not very accurate in the sense that the formula is complexe and the factors taken into account can be subjective depending on the model. It's not as accurate as a straightforward "completed pass" stat for exemple. But it's true that if done right, it gives you a pretty good idea about a keeper shotstopping skill. As you mentionned you need a decent sample.
It's not perfect though as it doesn't into account things like :
- stops made that the keeper releases/deflects directly on an opponent that subsequently scores
- bad passes or fumbles that brings a goal
Correct, this is a flaw of the model, but it's still a good one. Even if I agree about the bolded part, it's still nothing more than an "impression". You would need to watch all the gks in all the games to say that Onana is any worse in that regard compared to the "average". It's easier to remember those occasions if you watch your GK regularly, especially if he's facing shitload of shots.It won’t tell you where the shots they save end up. Good keepers get the ball out of danger. Onana will push his shots back in to the danger zone.
It is though, even if it's evaluated against the same model, the mode itself IS subjective, that's the reason why it changes all the time, or why OPTA sometimes have different xG or PSxG figures than it's competitors for the same game (the difference can be quiet big on occasions). Said model can give more weight to some types of shots that will favor some types of keepers and vice versa. Lets say OPTA considers that a shot masked by a defenders has 80% chances of getting it, but Sportradar gives less weight to the "masked" parameter and considers that it has 70% chances of getting in, then a keeper with great reflexes will have a better PSxG with OPTA's model if he saves that shot, and this can apply differently to any kind of shot.No, it's not "subjective" because every GK is evaluated against the same model. "Completed passess" stat is accurate but doesn't tell you anything in isolation, PSxG vs goals conceded tells you quite accurately if the GK is a good shotstopper (not goalkeeper!).
Do you see different players in top 5 and bottom 5 on PSxG then, depending on the model selected? Onana is 2nd on OPTA data, comfortably in top 5 so I'd be surprised if a different model shows he's not up there in EPL games.It is though, even if it's evaluated against the same model, the mode itself IS subjective, that's the reason why it changes all the time, or why OPTA sometimes have different xG or PSxG figures than it's competitors for the same game (the difference can be quiet big on occasions). Said model can give more weight to some types of shots that will favor some types of keepers and vice versa. Lets say OPTA considers that a shot masked by a defenders has 80% chances of getting it, but Sportradar gives less weight to the "masked" parameter and considers that it has 70% chances of getting in, then a keeper with great reflexes will have a better PSxG with OPTA's model if he saves that shot, and this can apply differently to any kind of shot.
Not saying it's bad or totally inaccurate, but it is subjective depending on the way the model is built.
Which is why you should never trust stats.That's one of the flaws I indicated yeah. If Onana stops a very hard shot and then deflects back to an opponent that scores an unsaveable goal, the 1st shot will improve his PSxG stat a lot while the second will have no influence and in the end, he still conceded a goal.
I don't have subscritions to various stats providers but I think that even if models are in a way subjective, they're accurate enough give you a good idea of a keeper's performance. There's no reason to think the results will be drastically different and Onana might be 3rd or 1st depending on the model but it won't go from 2nd place to 8th.Do you see different players in top 5 and bottom 5 on PSxG then, depending on the model selected? Onana is 2nd on OPTA data, comfortably in top 5 so I'd be surprised if a different model shows he's not up there in EPL games.