exactly,
Fergie's team selection today
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I was surprised but not annoyed like some.
As soon as I saw the side I realised he was set out to ensure we were not beaten. I see no problem with that
Defensively we were good and kept it tight in midfield for 80 mins
Noodle struggles to understand football at times. We have lost there 3 years in a row. We needed to not get beaten today.
Liverpool today IMO were twice the side they were last season.
As soon as I saw the side I realised he was set out to ensure we were not beaten. I see no problem with that
Defensively we were good and kept it tight in midfield for 80 mins
Noodle struggles to understand football at times. We have lost there 3 years in a row. We needed to not get beaten today.
Liverpool today IMO were twice the side they were last season.
he also had an eye on the CL tie. We have not really started going in that.
no worries lads.
no worries lads.
Really?
I would not be surprised if Fergie rests the likes of Rio and Young in the CL.
I would not be surprised if Fergie rests the likes of Rio and Young in the CL.
Anderson could have been far worse. When Anderson's bad he's absolutely fecking hopeless just like he was against Norwich. In a high tempo game at Anfield I'm not in the least bit surprised that Fergie trusted other players to get the job done.
He had one poor game, and at least 3 great ones. I am sure he would have done rather well - surely better than Fletch or Jones
He's had far more than one poor/average game this season. You can't possibly be sure that Anderson ''would have done rather well - surely better than Fletch or Jones''. He's horribly inconsistent and he's probably the one player in the entire squad who you CAN'T be sure whether he'll do well or not in ANY game, never mind away at Anfield.
Alright, ignoring the other spackers in here who can't discuss football without coming out with dickheadish comments, let me put it to you and Spoons another way...If we didn't have a CL game we needed to win coming up in the week, do you REALLY think Fergie would have picked the side he did today knowing there's 8 days until the Manc derby?
I'll bet you and no one else expected him to pick the team he did today two hours before kick off, so be honest now.
I thought SAF in hindsight made the right choice today given the circumstances (well, except with playing Jones in midfield...I don't understand why so many people seem to think that's a great idea when it's blatantly not), but the circumstances are somewhat down to himself. Failing to win at Anfield is easier to recover a season from than failing to win any of your opening three CL group games, or failing to win at home to your main title rivals...and we could still spack it up on Tuesday or next Sunday anyway, so it's not even ratified yet.
To be fair though Waltroute, that's the same approach that leads to us drawing against teams like Basle (we shoud have lost to be honest), and getting ourselves into this sort of situation in the first place.We won't lose to Oţelul no matter what team we field.
(And yes, I remember Videoton!)
I think it's arrogant. We've been doing it for a few years now with CL group games, and it's caused us more problems than it's solved every time...I don't think it will really be seen that way on here unless it results in us actually going out of the Champions League...and even then you'll get the deniers blaming it all on some debatable refereeing decision or unfathomably impossible level of bad luck which never actually occured...or Berbatov.
messed up my fantasy football team... had rooney nani and anderson in it.
We'll have to wait and see with his selection for the Otelul game but why would SAF build the game up so much if he was more worried about Otelul. So let's say we draw away in Otelul, we then have 3 games and 9 points left to play for, 2 of which are at home with less punishing games than City and Liverpool either side. I think today was more of a case off SAF looking for certain qualities in the players he was playing as well as protecting Rooney and Nani for different reasons, I think SAF wanted more graft and solidarity to build the foundation for a late siege. It worked to an extent but the ref had other ideas, the Jones selection is a bit flummoxing but other than that you can put a good case forward for the rest of the selections.
I don't know...he'd had to've judged which players looked fresh enough. The Mexican travelled the globe, Nani as GCHQ said played in the two international fixtures...and Rooney still would've had his issues. Personally, I suspect he would've played Rooney because he loathes leaving him out. But come on, when we've started better teams in this fixture...we've not exactly blown away the opposition at Anfield have we? We've lacked urgency away to Liverpool in recent years, just maybe, that had a bearing on his team selection? ie freshness. He set his team up not to lose, though, I wish he showed more endeavour by bringing on the likes of Rooney and Nani earlier in the second half. But I don't think he rested players for the Romanian game.
That was a shit Liverpool team, that would have been turned over by any half decent Utd team selection.
We've been to 3 Champions League finals in four years and won the league in 3 of those 4 years including getting to the latter stages of the domestic trophies regularly. Nobody comes close to matching that consistency so how exactly has our approach caused more problems than it has solved?
I kind of agree but for different reasons. I don't think it had much to do with selecting a team tactically as opposed to resting players, and I don't get how the ref had other ideas? Rio fouled a Liverpool player and they scored from the freekick. Just because Adam embarassed himself with how he went down doesn't mean it wasn't a foul (See Rooney vs Sol Campbell). Our performance was a mess and Liverpool were actually very poor until they scored...after which we had to change the team anyway.
If it was meant to be some kind of tactical masterstroke it didn't work. IMO it was more about weighing up the next few games in terms of importance...and this one was the easiest to take a hit in and recover from. Turns out we scraped a draw anyway which isn't that bad.
Sure, we could draw in Romania and then win our last three CL games or something, but that'd be a fantastic situation to be in wouldn't it? NEEDING a win from two, possibly all three of our remaining CL games in order to avoid going out. No pressure...just a bit more of a headache/potential disaster than dropping a few points in the league to Liverpool. Same goes for City next week. That's a six pointer. Today wasn't.
Anfield is a difficult fixture, but I thought today was the poorest Liverpool have played against us there in some years. Usually they're in our faces from first minute to last. Today they were completely flat for an hour and only woke up after we gifted them a goal. They looked pedestrian, and so did we to be honest. We just looked a mess...hoofing it up the field because we had no idea how to gather any shape and play our way into the game. Same as I said to ArmChair...we played poorly for an hour, conceded a goal, and then had to change things and chase the game to get back into it...if there was some kind of tactic to our selection today beyond resting players, it basically didn't work very well.
I never like watching United play like that either. I've loved our start to the season because we've grown a set of balls again. Today was a depressing revert to type...though I'm not sure we were defensive rather than just too poor in midfield to do anything. I suspect the later.
Yeah, but this is what I mean about not being able to see the wood through the trees. We've been fantastic in the knockout out rounds since 2007. In the group stages the last few years we've treated opposition with comtempt, dropped stupid points and made things needlessly difficult for ourselves in the later group games and the League games that follow/precede them. Last two years we've had to win all three away games as a result of dropping silly home points. So easily avoidable...and this season we can't do that as we've already drawn an away game.
You don't really want to be going to Romania for a game you can't really afford not to win, in between weekend games against Liverpool and City, but that's what we've got ourselves into.
The plus point is that City have choked in their first two CL games so have a similar situation to us...and surprise, they also left key players on the bench today...'cept they had Villa at home so it didn't matter.
Seems like you're not his biggest fan. So far, he's been our best midfielder nevertheless.
Exactly. To argue Jones should get a look in over Anderson for any reason of merit is going to sound pretty stretched.
Yeah but you say it's caused more harm than good. How?
I must say its a bit weird.
We didn't man mark Messi in the UCL final because "United aren't used to playing that way".
Yet we tried to man mark Charlie fecking Adam today.
We didn't man mark Messi in the UCL final because "United aren't used to playing that way".
Yet we tried to man mark Charlie fecking Adam today.
Fergie's main aim today was to break the string of losses he had there. This also worked into the effects of the internationals that had been played.
but i will disagree with Spoony...think he wanted to make sure we did not have tired legs on an away trip to Romania. We have not got going in the CL and we also saw what underestimating another side did.
all in all I would have taken the point before the game.
heck we have only dropped 4 points so far.
but i will disagree with Spoony...think he wanted to make sure we did not have tired legs on an away trip to Romania. We have not got going in the CL and we also saw what underestimating another side did.
all in all I would have taken the point before the game.
heck we have only dropped 4 points so far.
We haven't exactly been playing well since the Chelsea game. For all those saying why not Anderson...well last few games he's been shit. There's nothing wrong with dropping players for one game. The thing you get with Fletch and Jones in midfield is a bit of energy and bite. Something we've definitely lacked last few games at Anfield.
My only small qualm with today's selection was playing Park on the wing. Personally I don't think he has the strength or pace to do well there. So he was only selected imo for defensive duties.
Considering we got a point at a place we've got nothing from last few seasons, and it's another rival checked off the list this early in the season, I'm very happy.
My only small qualm with today's selection was playing Park on the wing. Personally I don't think he has the strength or pace to do well there. So he was only selected imo for defensive duties.
Considering we got a point at a place we've got nothing from last few seasons, and it's another rival checked off the list this early in the season, I'm very happy.
Like I often post on here, I almost never have a problem with Fergie's starting line-up. Occasionally I'm not happy with his substitutions, but I can almost always understand the thinking behind the starting line-up even if it's not something I would've expected and it doesn't end up working.
However, this match was one of the very rare ones where I was not happy with the starting line-up.
Not playing Rooney - fair enough if it was felt he wasn't in the right place mentally after his last week or so. No Hernandez - fair enough again. I can completely understand the reasons to go with only one striker. Jones in midfield along with Fletcher and Giggs - err, ok. Starting to get a bit weird but I can see the thinking so I'll be interested to see how it goes.
But no Nani? That was a big mistake IMO. If Rooney isn't playing, Nani has to be there (and vice versa). They are the two world-class attacking and creative players we have, they give us a proper outlet and push the opposition back. The only time neither should be playing (barring injuries obviously) is in the FA Cup and Carling Cup, or any relatively unimportant CL games.
We went too defensive today. Staying solid for the first 60 minutes and then going for the win (which is what Fergie has said he was doing) is fine. Hell, we've constantly done it to perfection in the CL over the last four years or so. But if that's what we were trying to do today we got the balance all wrong. Even if we hadn't conceded that goal and we went on to win the match with the late changes I would've had the impression of being lucky rather than being tactically solid and superior.
However, this match was one of the very rare ones where I was not happy with the starting line-up.
Not playing Rooney - fair enough if it was felt he wasn't in the right place mentally after his last week or so. No Hernandez - fair enough again. I can completely understand the reasons to go with only one striker. Jones in midfield along with Fletcher and Giggs - err, ok. Starting to get a bit weird but I can see the thinking so I'll be interested to see how it goes.
But no Nani? That was a big mistake IMO. If Rooney isn't playing, Nani has to be there (and vice versa). They are the two world-class attacking and creative players we have, they give us a proper outlet and push the opposition back. The only time neither should be playing (barring injuries obviously) is in the FA Cup and Carling Cup, or any relatively unimportant CL games.
We went too defensive today. Staying solid for the first 60 minutes and then going for the win (which is what Fergie has said he was doing) is fine. Hell, we've constantly done it to perfection in the CL over the last four years or so. But if that's what we were trying to do today we got the balance all wrong. Even if we hadn't conceded that goal and we went on to win the match with the late changes I would've had the impression of being lucky rather than being tactically solid and superior.
Rooney and Nani both started against Norwich and created feck all. They won't create something every game and we have other players capable of stepping up in their absence.
Leaving them both out was a risk but Fergie obviously though that we had better options than a head-fecked Rooney and a jaded Nani. Which is quite possible.
Leaving them both out was a risk but Fergie obviously though that we had better options than a head-fecked Rooney and a jaded Nani. Which is quite possible.
Obviously it won't happen for them every game. I also have to note I felt Nani was a fair bit better against Norwich than most give him credit for. But, as always, it's a matter of consistency. Both of them will create chances and opportunities more than anyone else in our squad and can do it out of nothing. Which is what we need when we're trying to be solid - someone who can still do the job but who can also push the opposition back. If not one of them, then at least Valencia instead of Park.
Welbeck upfront by himself. Young and Park on the wings. Fletcher, Jones and Giggs in central midfield. As soon as I saw that I felt we went maybe one position too far in trying to be solid, to the extent we would hand Liverpool the momentum of the match. If things went wrong we arguably wouldn't be able to turn things around even with the three changes we could make.
Like I said, I almost never argue with Fergie's starting line-ups. I've defended his line-ups regularly on here; even if they don't work I can see why he went that way and invariably we can turn it around with two or three changes. Whereas today he probably would've needed to make four changes (the three he did make plus either Carrick or Anderson - possibly even both) to take control of the match properly. That shouldn't happen.
Today he went a bit too far.
The liberties that Ferguson took with the team selection say to me that he no longer sees Liverpool as the real challengers. You can argue that most of the choices were made for good reasons, but I get the impression that he was deliberately holding back here by leaving players out in order to improve the chance of winning the more important game against City.
what is difficult about this? We showed more balls and resistance against them for the first time in years and actually got a point for the first time in a while. As well as the need to play fresh players not only yesterday but with midweek and next weekend in mind. We didn't get 3 pts but a point there is decent enough in their cup final.
feckin clueless that Fergie idiot. Scour Red Cafe for a new genius.
feckin clueless that Fergie idiot. Scour Red Cafe for a new genius.
I was shocked when I saw the formation but little by little I understood the reasons behind it.
Rooney - SAF was right. After what happened last week the Anfield game was far from ideal for him.
Hernandez/Valencia - they needed rest
Nani - his creativity would have been useful but Downing had given Evra a bit of a headache in the past years and Park covers more inches of pitch.
Carrick - he's been a bit meah for quite some time. Jones offers more energy and quality in the team that's for sure.
Rooney - SAF was right. After what happened last week the Anfield game was far from ideal for him.
Hernandez/Valencia - they needed rest
Nani - his creativity would have been useful but Downing had given Evra a bit of a headache in the past years and Park covers more inches of pitch.
Carrick - he's been a bit meah for quite some time. Jones offers more energy and quality in the team that's for sure.
Nani and Evra play on the opposite flanks.
It was a bizarre selection, but we came away with a point which we haven't done for a while, when playing our best eleven. So maybe we would have done better with the big guns in, but maybe we wouldn't.
Seemed funny having a stronger bench than team though.
Seemed funny having a stronger bench than team though.
I think the line-up was tactical and nothing to do with resting players. After Fergie's pre-match hype he played what looked like a very weakened team and without the usual villains Rooney and Nani. It was obvious early on that the game would be scrappy and the crowd was silent by 15mins. I think the idea was to keep it level until 65mins and then bring on Rooney, Nani & Hernandez with fresh legs to snatch a win.
i agree with this
I think Fergie wanted to include combative players and this included putting Jones in midfield ahead of anderson
the first half went great in terms of containing Liverpool but when the second half started and started slipping away i'm not sure why he waited so long to make changes
personally I would have played Smalling at CB and Jones at RB with Anderson in midfield but hindsight and all that
i think we had too much respect for Liverpool and Nani would have given enrique a torid time I think
if you look at the match again I seriously think SAF wanted to match their intensity. I can understand with people being upset at the line up but I remember distinctly that the last 3 times we've been there, the main thing people muttered was how we seemed to play with no fighting spirit. Like we'd get there, become shocked by the atmosphere and fall over sideways.
Yesterday was much different from that. You cant say our lads didn't put a shift and get about them. I think matching their intensity and showing that we're not intimidated was a step in the right direction. Granted, offensively we were poor, I can see why SAF did what he did and it doesnt anger me that much. Some people wanted us to play more expansively but sometimes I wonder if they remember who we're playing against. It's not beyond us as a squad but Anfield is a difficult place to come to and considering the circumstances, I'm happy with a point.
I think our judgment is being clouded by using hindsight. It's easy to say it after the game how if we did x,y and z that such and such would happen. Do we really know though? Especially after internationals. It's speculative in my view and I think we handled it well. Only spot of worry was that conceding a goal from that free kick. Thank goodness Hernandez got us out of jail.
So once again, I'm not sure I agree with halftime subs or anything like that or even starting Roo and Nani. It could have worked but then it could not have. You just dont know. Sometimes not starting your best players is the best option. As weird as that sounds, I think it's quite valid. For what Sir Alex was wishing to accomplish yesterday, seemed warranted.
Yesterday was much different from that. You cant say our lads didn't put a shift and get about them. I think matching their intensity and showing that we're not intimidated was a step in the right direction. Granted, offensively we were poor, I can see why SAF did what he did and it doesnt anger me that much. Some people wanted us to play more expansively but sometimes I wonder if they remember who we're playing against. It's not beyond us as a squad but Anfield is a difficult place to come to and considering the circumstances, I'm happy with a point.
I think our judgment is being clouded by using hindsight. It's easy to say it after the game how if we did x,y and z that such and such would happen. Do we really know though? Especially after internationals. It's speculative in my view and I think we handled it well. Only spot of worry was that conceding a goal from that free kick. Thank goodness Hernandez got us out of jail.
So once again, I'm not sure I agree with halftime subs or anything like that or even starting Roo and Nani. It could have worked but then it could not have. You just dont know. Sometimes not starting your best players is the best option. As weird as that sounds, I think it's quite valid. For what Sir Alex was wishing to accomplish yesterday, seemed warranted.
Yep, totally agree.
Spot on. Liverpool don't have as good a squad as us and it seemed obvious that he was going to bring on fresh legs to get behind their defense late in the game and punish them and if wasn't for one stupid mistake in the wall, guess what it would have worked. I would have taken a point before the game, I think most of us would.
Shocking selection tbh....I had the dubious pleasure of watching the game in a bar with 80% Liverpool fans and after giving them a ribbing over their "shit on a stick" brand of football I just stood there gobsmacked when the teams were announced
This thread assumes we have a best eleven. Those days are gone.
True, but we certainly have a much better eleven than the one we played on Saturday.
In fact in terms of midfield and attack you could name a much better team purely using the players who were left out.
Nani-Carrick-Anderson-Valencia
Rooney-Hernandez
Or if you like:
Carrick-Cleverley-Anderson
Nani-Rooney-Valencia
Either one of those would walk all over the midfield we had out on Saturday based on how poorly it performed. Still don't get why people think playing Jones in midfield is a good idea.
Rooney-Hernandez
Or if you like:
Carrick-Cleverley-Anderson
Nani-Rooney-Valencia
Either one of those would walk all over the midfield we had out on Saturday based on how poorly it performed. Still don't get why people think playing Jones in midfield is a good idea.
SAF not only needs to get results, but also keep players/squad happy, and match fit by giving them games. Not your typical United display yesterday but the result turned out to be very acceptable.
It's a marathon.
It's a marathon.
I wasn't thrilled when I saw the team at first but it got us a positive result in arguably our hardest game of the season. It comes across as a selection designed to help us win the league rather than just that one game. We will be able to pick a team in Romania and against City that is fresh and hungry. It's becoming apparent that City are probably our main rivals for the title. We simply can't let them beat us whereas losing to Liverpool wouldn't have been the end of the world in the general scheme of things, though it would have been horrible.
I agree. The only concern is that we didn't look good enough to get away with it. We spent from now until pretty much Christmas last year swapping the team around from one game to the next and putting in performances and picking up results well below what we were capable of. It won us the league with 70 something points.
Try to pull the same stunt this year and City will simply end up comfortably above us, probably along with Chelsea who look a much better side than last season.
Didn't have too much of a problem with it in hindsight yesterday, considering our next two games, just hope it doesn't become a habit again and ruin our momentum.