Gaming Fifa 12

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
The point is, the game shouldn't force the players to be shit in order to make it more realistic. In the old pro's could I dribble past 6 players and score?, yes against average players I could, but when I was up against friends of a similar standard we could have 0-0 draws, purely down to the quality of our defending, tactical set up. The capacity was there to go past players with a good dribbling move using just the normal analogue stick (weaving in and out), but with good defensive positioning/reading of your opponents style you could counteract their attacking movements.

In the current Fifa games, its as if to make the game seem more realistic.. they've robbed the players of close control and the ability to stay on their feet once they knock it past an oncoming defender.. that for me is not reflective of the real game. The likes of Iniesta and Messi, the ball should stick to their feet like glue and a good player should be able to utilise them in an attacking manner, and it should take good defending to stop them.. rather than make them dribble in a manner akin to a CGI Hesky, with the balance and poise of Crouch.
 

Freak

Born a freak always a freak.
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
23,041
Location
Somewhere in your mind, touching a nerve
Fair points.

Although I do feel like in the recent Fifa games, instead of 'robbing players of close control' as you put it, I find that more often than not the ball sticks to the feet of players. It's like every average Joe has Zidane like control.

One thing that I really want Fifa to improve on is player distinctiveness. I don't get the feeling that this player is Paul Scholes when he is on the ball. Every other player seems to have as good passing skills.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
Agreed on the Scholes bit, its like every average joe possesses superb vision and technical execution when it comes to through balls. Overcompensating for the lack of dribbling class with Platini-esque passing attributes for everyone.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,372
Location
Flagg
To be honest it should really be way beyond that now.

You should be talking about each player having their own unique characteristics akin to their real life counterparts, in their style of play, the way you can use them to move, beat defenders, create space, etc.

Messi shouldn't just have closer ball control than other players, he should have Messi's ball control, and Messi's ability to beat players with a change of speed and direction. As Ronaldo should have his ability to bulldoze past them...Berbatov the ability to turn and play a ball in behind the fullback with the outside of his boot, etc...all reliant on the timing and control of the person playing the game, obviously.

PES has made some kind of attempt at this, in that certain players do have those type of characteristics, but it's still at a basic level, and in some cases clumsy. Ronaldo and Messi are the only ones they've really gone full tilt with.

Fifa on the other hand doesn't have this at all. All of the players are still EXACTLY the same as each other. Some are just better at doing exactly the same things than others are. This is why I don't understand Fifa. It does some things well, but other parts of the game have just been left trawling about 10 years behind.

Collision detection; again, I don't care. Why are they wasting their time on collision detection and individualising how players fall over, when they could be invididualising the actual fecking teams and players instead?

Oh look, Johnny Evans fell over Ashley Cole's leg. That's cool, er, except Johnny Evans still looks like some kind of hillbilly Gary Neville with a cube shaped head, and runs slower than Emile Heskey because his "skill" rating is low. He can still bring an 800 yard pass down from over his own shoulder with one touch though.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
Oh look, Johnny Evans fell over Ashley Cole's leg. That's cool, er, except Johnny Evans still looks like some kind of hillbilly Gary Neville with a cube shaped head, and runs slower than Emile Heskey because his "skill" rating is low. He can still bring an 800 yard pass down from over his own shoulder with one touch though.
:lol:
 

Chrisjn

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
7,005
They tried sorting it out with that 'Player plus', or whatever it's called. unfortionatley they're still all pretty similar. And although Rooney can bulldose past the odd man, he still has the same balls skills as Zat Knight.

I'm lead to believe they're integrating this further in Fifa12.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,372
Location
Flagg
Player plus was just some thing where they have a list of generic characteristics they can add to players. That's not individualising anything all, and it was completely unnoticable anyway. Pro Evo had similar settings when it first moved on to the PS2. That's how ridiculously outdated Fifa is in that area.

Problem is they'd have to actually put the effort in to making a new game in order to integrate something new, and FIfa 12 will be at least 5 years old before it even gets released.
 

Chrisjn

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
7,005
Player plus was just some thing where they have a list of generic characteristics they can add to players. That's not individualising anything all, and it was completely unnoticable anyway. Pro Evo had similar settings when it first moved on to the PS2. That's how ridiculously outdated Fifa is in that area.

Problem is they'd have to actually put the effort in to making a new game in order to integrate something new, and FIfa 12 will be at least 5 years old before it even gets released.
So they can't integrate this sort of stuff without making a new engine?
 

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
45,374
The point is, the game shouldn't force the players to be shit in order to make it more realistic. In the old pro's could I dribble past 6 players and score?, yes against average players I could, but when I was up against friends of a similar standard we could have 0-0 draws, purely down to the quality of our defending, tactical set up. The capacity was there to go past players with a good dribbling move using just the normal analogue stick (weaving in and out), but with good defensive positioning/reading of your opponents style you could counteract their attacking movements.

In the current Fifa games, its as if to make the game seem more realistic.. they've robbed the players of close control and the ability to stay on their feet once they knock it past an oncoming defender.. that for me is not reflective of the real game. The likes of Iniesta and Messi, the ball should stick to their feet like glue and a good player should be able to utilise them in an attacking manner, and it should take good defending to stop them.. rather than make them dribble in a manner akin to a CGI Hesky, with the balance and poise of Crouch.
Don't you use Skill Dribble? That's miles more effective at getting past players and much more realistic.
 

evil_geko

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
5,915
BTW, it is confirmed that PC version is finally going to be exactly the same as consoles!
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
57,761
Location
Krakow
I agree with most of what's been said in this thread. The only way they differentiate in the current generation is by making them faster or slower, when on the ball they are mostly identical in how they play. For example, I took Blackpool today and battered some lad 7-1 in an online game today, while skinning his defenders with DJ Campbell and making Hollywood passes with Vaughan and Adam, passes that I pulled as well with them as I would with Scholes or Xavi. As long as you have a pacey forward and a strong midfielder, you can get by in this game with any side you feel like playing.
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
33,451
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
I agree with most of what's been said in this thread. The only way they differentiate in the current generation is by making them faster or slower, when on the ball they are mostly identical in how they play. For example, I took Blackpool today and battered some lad 7-1 in an online game today, while skinning his defenders with DJ Campbell and making Hollywood passes with Vaughan and Adam, passes that I pulled as well with them as I would with Scholes or Xavi. As long as you have a pacey forward and a strong midfielder, you can get by in this game with any side you feel like playing.
The game is also very boring to play with much on assisted. The game does most of the work for you and the creativity is more limited.
 

RDCR07

Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
30,410
Location
Transfer Forum
Well I don't know if Andy Gray is still going to be there. They definitely need new commentators. I am just sick with Tyler and Gray.
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,262
Location
Manchester
While agreeing the actual gameplay is what really needs to be dealt with (no ones mentioned how annoying it is when your striker does a lame header instead of letting it drop for a thunderous volley like you intended) improving the atmosphere will def be a plus in my opinion. I think it'll add a lot to games, specially derbies. Sort the bugs first though EA....
 

Red Pavan

shittest username ever manutddabest791
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
16,479
Location
UK - Ronaldo's House.
Messi shouldn't just have closer ball control than other players, he should have Messi's ball control, and Messi's ability to beat players with a change of speed and direction. As Ronaldo should have his ability to bulldoze past them....
It is exactly that, Messi if played right is almost unstoppable as is Ronaldo.
 

uae

Desperately wants a tagline under his name
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
10,374
Location
Dubai
So players fall down better?
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
86,651
Yep. I'm hoping for much bigger improvements to be announced.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,372
Location
Flagg
It is exactly that, Messi if played right is almost unstoppable as is Ronaldo.
You Fifa mob and your web of lies fool me no more.

This year I'm going to simulate the experience of purchasing a new Fifa game, by flushing £40 down the toilet, and then putting a security sticker over the Fifa10 case and peeling it back off again.
 

LARulz

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
18,199
Thats a terrible trailer, if thats their biggest change I'm hoping PES has improved massively.

I hope these video are just building up to the biggest change.
 

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
45,374
The game was good but like Hitchcocker I found online crap
Why? I found it better than just playing ranked game after ranked game. The facht it was a tournament made it more interesting.

I'd love FIFA 12 to incorporate some kind of online tournament into it's online..
 

LARulz

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
18,199
Why? I found it better than just playing ranked game after ranked game. The facht it was a tournament made it more interesting.

I'd love FIFA 12 to incorporate some kind of online tournament into it's online..
I liked the tournament aspect but felt the gameplay online was a bit off. To me anyway, the game felt slugish and unresponsive at times. I thought it was my internet connection but FIFA 10 played very well still. Whatever the issue, it was resolved in FIFA 11.

The gameplay (offline for me) and the tournament idea online I liked but playing it online was fairly poor for me.
 

evil_geko

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
5,915



And before someone complains about these stuff:

Outsider87P said:
The game is FIFA 12, I tried it too and I can confirm that...

About referees you are right, but this has been done by producers on purpose IN THIS build because there were some flaws still with impact engine and they did not want to break the match flow too much!!!

About players flying, the video is clearly a clip to show impact engine so it is clear that the guy playing is doing anything he can do to provoke such reactions... I don't think you would make more than 3-4 sliding tackle in a match and in those slide tackles you will not always see such rude contrasts...

About the speed, that's a video problem ;)
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
86,651
FSB: High pressure, high aggression and auto-tackle have been community pet hates for a few years now, how conscious of this were you when implementing Tactical Defending?

Tactical Defending fundamentally changes the way you defend, bringing in an element of timing and positioning that we didn’t have before. These go against being overly aggressive and the auto-tackle that we had before. So, implementing Tactical Defending isn’t just about changing the mechanic of defending, but also to create depth and ask gamers to think about how they should defend every situation.

FSB: How has swapping the old pressing system for the new Contain mechanic changed the way you defend in FIFA 12?


The old system would do everything for you, and because it had only one thing in mind (go to the ball and tackle it), you couldn’t really defend differently in different scenarios. This also meant that you never had a lot of time on the ball, because there would always be a defender going full speed at you and launching a tackle as soon as he could. The new contain mechanic assists you to be in a good position to mark the ball possessor, which will make it easier to then manually commit to the tackle. In FIFA 12, once you lose possession, instead of just looking at the ball and going straight for it, you will need to see the big picture of the play developing, position yourself to contain first, and then go in for a tackle at the right time.

FSB: What are the main differences between Skill Dribble (FIFA 10/11) and the new Precision Dribble in FIFA 12?


Skilled Dribble allowed you to face the defender and then use change of pace at a 90-degree angle to try and beat him. Precision Dribble is 360 degrees, covers more contexts, and it is not so much a tool to beat a defender (although it is powerful at this too), as it is one to keep possession of the ball when there is a lot of traffic around you by having very close and responsive ball control. In addition, Precision Dribble gives you the ability to dribble while you are shielding the ball, which is something we didn’t have before. Also, while you would have to manually trigger Skilled Dribble most of the time, Precision Dribble is much more accessible and will trigger contextually in a great variety of situations.

FSB: How does Precision Dribble affect the pacing of FIFA 12′s gameplay?

It has a massive influence in the pace of FIFA 12 gameplay. For the first time, you will be able to slow the play down as the dribbler even if you have one or several defenders closing you down. This is only possible because of the new precision dribble touches – how close they keep the ball, and how responsive the turns are. You will now get into areas such as the top of the box, a crowded midfield, down the wing, etc., where you would have had to get rid of the ball right away (by shooting, crossing, or passing). I can’t tell you how much fun it is when you can get creative and buy yourself some time in these situations!

FSB: This new level of precision in player dribbling will undoubtedly make players like Messi more powerful than ever. How do you plan to balance this?

Players like Messi will be better at Precision Dribble than others, that’s true, but it is in no way an exploit or an easy way to score goals. Moreover, in the past we and the community have felt that players like Messi are not as powerful in our game as they are in real life, so this is a change in the right direction. Besides, Messi’s got 52 goals this season, I think real world managers and defenders are still trying to figure out how to neutralize him

FSB: You’ve described the Impact Engine as the biggest change to FIFA since rebuilding it for the next-gen consoles. How long has the Impact Engine been in development?


Around 2 years.

FSB: How does the new Impact Engine affect the physicality of FIFA 12′s gameplay?

It will make every player interaction follow real world physics; will prevent clipping (players’ legs and arms going through each other); will give you unprecedented variety and accuracy in all the falls and stumbles in the game; and it will enhance other features such as shielding, push and pull, etc.

FSB: Can you explain a little more about the new Self Injury mechanic and how muscle tears and strains will be calculated?

We can now determine how much a player is stretching on a shot, a pass, a clearance, etc., and we also know how tired they are. As in real life, exhaustion increases the risk for these types of muscle injuries. So, depending on a player’s fatigue, how prone he is to injuries, whether he is coming back from injury and not fully recovered, and the actions that he is doing on the field, we can determine if an injury is likely in a particular situation.

FSB: With the new physicality of the Player Impact Engine and self injuries, should we be worried about lots of players going off injured all the time? How have you made sure this is balanced and realistic?

The frequency of self injuries will be balanced so that it only happens at the appropriate times and reflects the frequency of these injuries in the real world. You will also be able to customize the injury frequency and severity in Game Settings, in case you feel it should be different. With respect to the Player Impact Engine and injuries caused by collisions, the aim is not to create more or less injuries, nor to flood the game with dramatic falls, but rather to give you an accurate result based on what happened on the field.

Players won’t be getting injured all the time, and they won’t be subjected to types of impacts that don’t happen in the real world. You could play against a very aggressive team, but that doesn’t mean that half of your players will get injured. In short, just like in real football, you could go several games without a single injury, then every once in a while someone picks up a knock, and one match you may get two severe injuries and now it’s time to look at the depth of your squad, etc. – all based on authentic factors (impact or stress on a body part or joint, player’s propensity to injury, fatigue, and more.)

FSB: Developing Player Vision as an attribute must have been difficult, how do you determine whether a player has “good vision” or not?


We have experts all over the world that watch teams and players week in and week out, and we use their feedback to determine our players’ attributes. For vision, we will be looking at those players who, beyond their great execution of passes, are able to pick out options that other players (or you as a spectator) would not normally see. Xavi, Fabregas, Ozil, Modric, are some examples of these types of players.

FSB: Your team mates understanding each other’s strengths and weakness is a great addition but how black and white will this system be? Will players always cross early if Peter Crouch is in the box?

No, we are not ‘hard-coding’ that every time Crouch is in the box his team-mates should put a cross in. Rather, we are infusing players with an extra level of intelligence that modifies their decision-making. So, while it is more likely that a player will cross the ball in if Crouch is in the box, he is still analyzing the whole situation, and if there is a better option (still accounting for the fact that it is Crouch in the box), he will choose to do something else.

FSB: The Pro Player Intelligence vision maps “allow different players to capitalise on different opportunities” how hard was this to implement and balance?

It’s been a lot of work tuning the size, growth speed, and other factors related to the vision maps. Thankfully, we have a development tool that allows us to run a particular scenario several times, and only changing the players involved, to see what outcome we get. This way we could test several situations where someone like Xavi or Fabregas would do something different from J.S. Park, Malouda, or other types of players.

FSB: We’ve heard “threat” and “opportunity analysis” mentioned in relation to the player vision maps, could you expand on this a little further?

Basically, each player on the ball, at any given time, is faced with several opportunities – he could dribble, or he could pass the ball to his team-mates – and threats – all the defenders that are also in the way of these passes or dribbling options. A player like Xavi is able to very quickly process all these opportunities and threats, see the big picture, and make a decision based on all that information. Most players in the world, however, get distracted longer with all of these threats and options, and they tend to choose more obvious choices because you don’t have that much time on the ball in a real game. These differences in behaviours and decision-making are what we are replicating with the vision map.
 

Jacob

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
25,577
United are going to be shit without a decent keeper versus the likes of Messi and Ronaldo online. Can't imagine De Gea (if signed) having a higher rating than 82, what is his rating in FIFA11?
 

WR

Frankie Barwell ITK
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
15,565
Location
Well done he’s 13
They do need to work on making Messi brilliant, but not completley unstoppable. Ronaldo is much better than Messi on Fifa11 even though they're both 90.

The responses to those questions look good, but I'm optimistic every year about what they say. This is often different to the reality as of the last 2 years
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
31,815
Location
Ginseng Strip
United are going to be shit without a decent keeper versus the likes of Messi and Ronaldo online. Can't imagine De Gea (if signed) having a higher rating than 82, what is his rating in FIFA11?
He's 78 on FIFA 11.

To be honest VDS isn't that highly rated in FIFA 11 either, he's only around 83 IIRC.
 

Jacob

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
25,577
I loved doing the long hard balls by Scholes in FIFA11, will miss him on FIFA12 :/
 

UnitedBoy

Redcafe Yahoo Pool champion 2007
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
5,831
wish we could play our manager mode teams online
 

Jacob

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
25,577
Can't even begin to imagine how overused Barca are going to be online, and Real to a lesser extent. They will probably be made slightly better than in FIFA11, which will tilt the already scewed usage of teams furthermore.
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
33,451
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
You don't have to imagine it. You can just go online and replace some of the Chelsea choices with Barcelona in your head and there you go.

Online gaming has some way to go for the PS3 in my books. There's just so much consistency in crap and annoyance.