I was about to write that Havertz shone at the times when Leverkusen were a fairly highly functional possession side under Bosz and went more or less missing when they weren't. Whereas the Seoane version of Leverkusen struggles in possession, but then I checked the stats and saw that Wirtz has only scored a goal against Leipzig and two assists against mighty Fürth in the eight games since the Bayern incident. He's clearly an exceptional talent, but I think at the moment too much of his public perception rests on that crazy 7 game run at the beginning of the season. People were just as enthusiastic about Havertz for a while and it took some time to realize that he wasn't as consistent or dominant as some early runs of form made everyone hope.
Florian Wirtz | Leverkusen player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
In the league yes, but I think you forget he has also scored a goal and three assists in the EL since the "Bayern incident" and made sure that Leverkusen win their group.
As a Bayern fan - is there anyone in that list that you want?
Just asking because the German x United blend hasn't been great and I'm looking forward to that getting better with some young German players sought after by Rangnick.
Yes, indeed, that's right.... And no I don't say this because I hope that no PL club will go for him
For me Wirtz is the most impressive youngster in the league since young Mario Götze. Better than Dembele, Sancho, Havertz, Werner et al.
I really, really hope Bayern is in for him. But Nagelsmann obviously sees Musiala future in the centre, so I have my doubts that we will go all in for Wirtz.
After watching a few videos, I've come to the conclusion he'd fit City more than United.
Wirtz is on a dry patch in the league but he contributes so much goals and assists aside. Collected a few pre assists here and there and generally has many jaw dropping plays.
Wouldn't say he's better than Sancho who himself is absolutely exceptional. But he's in the same tier. Wirtz, Sancho and Götze for me are the biggest prospects I've seen in the Bundesliga in the last 20 years
Wouldn't say he's better than Sancho who himself is absolutely exceptional. But he's in the same tier. Wirtz, Sancho and Götze for me are the biggest prospects I've seen in the Bundesliga in the last 20 years
The fact that you brought up that list to extoll Wirtz isn't heartwarming at all almost everyone on that list flopped (injuries in case of gotten but still)Yes, indeed, that's right.... And no I don't say this because I hope that no PL club will go for him
For me Wirtz is the most impressive youngster in the league since young Mario Götze. Better than Dembele, Sancho, Havertz, Werner et al.
I really, really hope Bayern is in for him. But Nagelsmann obviously sees Musiala future in the centre, so I have my doubts that we will go all in for Wirtz.
Haven't seen him play to be honest but the obligatory YouTube videos seem exciting but you never know till you watch him week in week out
The players that failed in the EPL usually joined outdated teams. Bundesliga players are used to modern tactics and coaching. Now that United has finally chosen to join the party, all English top clubs have undergone a transformation in that regard so I don't see why Bundesliga prospects should be more likely to fail than other players.
I mean, in the end players like Firmino, Gündogan, Son, Aubameyang and most likely even de Bruyne have dominated the league despite not being rated as highly as those youngsters in the Bundesliga.
Do not forget Sane who won youngster of the season in the EPL.
But I think that Bayern will not go for Wirtz as we have Musiala as designated Müller successor already. And Müller will still probably play the next 3 years (or even more) and because of his playing style will not really get worse with age.
But I think that Bayern will not go for Wirtz as we have Musiala as designated Müller successor already. And Müller will still probably play the next 3 years (or even more) and because of his playing style will not really get worse with age.
I would like Wirtz to join us, can`t really say much about the rest of them. Rangnick knows his stuff espescially when scouting young players.
I did not think Wirtz would be up to join u guys, but Rangnick has changed things since he is known to put trust into young players and turn them into household-names. He basically invented Firminho for example - so there is a chance Wirtz might see United as the easier path into stardome.
But we all have seen the pictures of Wirtz sporting a Bayern-jersey while working out, so... no-one knows where he`ll end up.
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Chelsea just became the champions of Europe and both Werner and Havertown have been underwhelming for them
I get your point i just wouldn't call it outdated rather more different which means it can be pretty hard to transition to epl or any other league for that matter as German prospects have hardly hit the ground running in other teams as well
Makes sense
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Oh for fecks sake! That's terrible. Poor kid.
That's terrible. Hope he recovers quickly but that's pretty much the worst that could happen for us and for him as well.
And Baumgart can feck off by the way. Pretending sportsmansgip to injured players but clearly giving his players the instructions to overcommit in tackles and duels. Wannabe Simeone.
And Baumgart can feck off by the way. Pretending sportsmansgip to injured players but clearly giving his players the instructions to overcommit in tackles and duels. Wannabe Simeone.
Real bummer, but at least he's got plenty of time and youth on his side, fingers cross he can come back stronger.
Well this lads done, I had feeling we'd go for him this summer but I doubt it happens now.
Will never be the same again.
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He is special.
Fantastic news, hope we are following him.
He is already playing in the last weeks like nothing happened. Incredible talent.
Will be unfair if Bayern will have Musiala and him in one team.
Is the number 10 his best position ?
Yes, for now. But Wirtz is a fluid ball-carrier, interprets space at a high level and has the wherewithal to operate in half-spaces, so he is more than just an orthodox Number 10. A crafty coach could develop and deploy him in a few different ways:
- As a interior in a midfield 3 (à la De Bruyne), especially as he widens his range of passing and and becomes more disciplined with age.
- As a False 9, under the right conditions; Alonso has already experimented with him in that role in a 3—4—3 base, with solid underlying justification...
- As a wide attacker or midfielder, under certain conditions; from there, he could intelligently float around and whip in precise passes.
A few stats from him this season since his recover from ACL:
516 minutes
2 goals
4 assists
3 pre-assists
Per 90 minutes:
3.16 key passes
5.26 shot creating actions
0.88 goal creating actions
4.74 successful dribbles (67.5% success rate)
According to his fbref.com scouting report over the last 365 days (injury happened in February 2022), he's among the top...
2% for assists
13% for shot creating actions
4% for progressive passes
1% for successful take ons
( Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days. Based on 805 minutes played. )
19 years of age. There's been a lot of talk about Musiala and Bellingham in his absence but I think he's still the biggest promise in the Bundesliga. Flies a little bit under the radar.
516 minutes
2 goals
4 assists
3 pre-assists
Per 90 minutes:
3.16 key passes
5.26 shot creating actions
0.88 goal creating actions
4.74 successful dribbles (67.5% success rate)
According to his fbref.com scouting report over the last 365 days (injury happened in February 2022), he's among the top...
2% for assists
13% for shot creating actions
4% for progressive passes
1% for successful take ons
( Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days. Based on 805 minutes played. )
19 years of age. There's been a lot of talk about Musiala and Bellingham in his absence but I think he's still the biggest promise in the Bundesliga. Flies a little bit under the radar.
I wondered why I hadn't heard much about him as he was amazing, but didn't realise he had an ACL injury, fabulous player.
Yes he immediately jumped out to me when I watched a Leverkusen game. He has flown under the radar because of his injury. I believe he can be the no. 10 we are looking for.
Yep, that silence was all down to his horrible injury. He is an amazing talent (and i don’t use the term „amazing“ lightly) and him and Musiala will hopefully be pillars in Germany‘s midfield for the next 10+ years.
He was incredible vs Monaco
If we aren't interested in him we don't like brilliant footballers.
We already have Bruno and Eriksen, it would be surplus requirement .
He is a tremendous talent, shame about the injury and missing so much football. He just has that natural ability on the ball, that you can't teach.
Here's a video only with post recovery scenes. A handful of pre-season games in their as well but not many.
Musiala and Wirtz together will be awesome but I hope only for Germany
I left that dig out on purpose.Musiala and Wirtz together will be awesome but I hope only for Germany
But if you sell him to fecking Chelsea to let them ruin him as well then your club is dead to me.
Yeah, that would suck. Though I believe he's on a wholly different level to Havertz and will probably be too good to fail regardless of which club he chooses.I left that dig out on purpose.
But if you sell him to fecking Chelsea to let them ruin him as well then your club is dead to me.
That said, when he had his breakthrough there were reports he was a Barca fan and Romano recently tweeted they are interested in a transfer already. Him, Pedri and Gavi together would be quite entertaining as well. And you can say about Barca what you want, but he could definitely count on protection from the referees there
I agree that he is a level above talent wise, but I would have loved Havertz at Bayern in the Müller role. That was obvious before Musiala‘s breakout season.Yeah, that would suck. Though I believe he's on a wholly different level to Havertz and will probably be too good to fail regardless of which club he chooses.
That said, when he had his breakthrough there were reports he was a Barca fan and Romano recently tweeted they are interested in a transfer already. Him, Pedri and Gavi together would be quite entertaining as well. And you can say about Barca what you want, but he could definitely count on protection from the referees there
Admittedly, it would have probably been better for him personally.
Milan had Rui Costa (who made the most assists in the competition as they won the Champions League in 2003), but they also made a move for Kaká from São Paulo — which paid big dividends in the years to follow, as fate would have it. While United's situation (among other variables) is not exactly the same, and Bruno and Eriksen are good contributors — Wirtz is a decade younger, a good ball-carrier on top of being a special creative passer already (*), comes across as a consummate ten Hag player in terms of footballing intelligence and keeping things simple (which was one of Cruyff's mantras), and could be a top performer for a very long period of time. If the opportunity is there to sign someone like him (i.e. one of the absolute best playmakers of the upcoming generation), it would behoove us to at least test the waters (and build from a position of strength, rather than desperation).
(*) These stats are not perfectly equalized of course (Wirtz's sample size is smaller, for example; a purple-patch can skew the data vs. someone who plays week-in an week-out), but paint a reasonably good picture of his talents as a ball-carrier (which give him as extra dimension vis-à-vis Bruno). As he develops, he could basically be Bruno with superior decision-making and dribbling ability!
Bloody hell, he looks like an absolute gem. Would he displace Sancho on the left in our team as a wide playmaker? I feel unsure on how he fits best in our current system.