Football in the olden days (pre-1990's) was crap, discuss.

[Kentonio]

Ok people are always whining on about football in the past being some wonderous thing where the players were magicians and the tactics were incredible and blah blah blah. I think it's time to put olden days football on trial and finally convict it of actually being quite shit.

Exhibit A: The pitches.

This is what a football pitch looked like in 1970. More accurately, this is what the pitch at Wembley for the FA Cup Final looked like. Now what exactly do you think the pitches at Stoke or Huddesfield might have looked like?

Here's Rangers and Celtic after a 1970's Scottish Cup quarter final..

You could play a game of football on that could you? We wouldn't let our kids nowadays play under those conditions, yet apparently we believe that guys were producing silky smooth high quality football playing in 3 inches of mud?

Exhibit B: The fitness

As any old, out of shape, heavy drinker and smoker like myself will know, fitness really does form a sizeable role in playing football. Even on a 5 a side pitch you end up fecking knackered after half an hour of half-arsedly running about. So how about 90 minutes of the highest level professional football playing against the best players in your entire country?

That's right Stan, players back in the day (the day in this case being any time up until the 80's) routinely enjoyed a fag and a pint, after tucking into their fish and chips.

Here's Jack Charlton enjoying a quick fag DURING TRAINING.

Now seriously, how much end to end running do you think actually went on over 90 minutes in a time when most players would have burst into a coughing fit if they stood up too quickly?

Exhibit C: The video evidence

Now exhibits A & B are open to some discussion, but most damningly of all we already know that olden days football was shit, because we have video evidence of it being shit. Seriously, you can watch with your own eyes as players stumble around, kick each other and score bang average goals that are widely applauded as 'world class'. Let's see some of this shambles..


Yep, that's the 1963 cup final, brought to you of course by British Pathe! Now imagine the Manchester United of today playing like that. Seriously, imagine it and if you think that would be great then send David Moyes an enormous apology card.


OK, now we're getting really serious, its the one the only PELE! Execpt there's a funny thing isn't there, when you actually focus on his 'unstoppable skills' there's very little there that we don't see on basically a weekly basis in the modern PL. "Oh my god, he's tapped the ball slightly sideways, leaving the 17 stone defender lunging wildly in the air!". Now fair play to Pele, he was doing this stuff at a time when no-one else could (probably because they we're too busy shaking off the effects of their half time pint), but compared to modern football? Oh hell no.


Ok, so we'll end on Johan Cruyff. One of the greatest players ever to walk the hallowed turf of blah blah blah. Now Johan was good, damn good in fact, but just watch that video and focus not on him but on the defenders and midfielders trying (not trying) to stop him. It's beyond shambolic, they lung in, he sidesteps them or does a quick turn and they're generally either on the floor or trying to kick him.

Because that's what olden days football actually was. The vast majority were unfit smokers shambling around a 'pitch' that looked like the Somme kicking anyone they couldn't be arsed to run after.

Discuss.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Yup. Pele and Cruyff can only dream of the tekkers you see from the likes of Lee Trundle.

 

[adexkola]

This thread has potential.

 

[Stobzilla]

Car crash of an OP.

 

[Penna]

I'd still like to put today's top players on those pitches and feed them the food footballers were given back then (same as everyone else, basically), and see how they do.

Modern professional footballers are athletes. Old-time footballers were just good at football, on the whole.

 

[Stack]

Thread created by a snowflake

 

[Harry190]

3 kg balls and potato fields make them look better in comparison to what we have today. Those were men playing. Manly men.

You should watch some of Liverpool's performances from the 80s, you'd be very impressed. They were quite something.

 

[Dir Wangem]

Before the OP gets crucified, I want to add that he has a point. The level of football used to be joke compared to the current level. However:

You have to realize that the former world class players would most likely have been world class today, had they been born later. You are shaped by your surroundings and your competition. Every sport and competitive game will start out with brilliant individuals(who become legends) who push the meta-game forward, only for vastly superior players to watch and learn and take the sport a step further.

This does not and should not take away any of the glory from the former greats.

 

[RedMaestro]

I'm no expert but doesn't this mean that the players were better because of the points you made; pitch, food, besides playing football also working, alcohol and cigarettes? If they'd played during this period, what would it look like? Surely better, since avoiding some of those things would make the body better.

And the Cruyff thing. Think the same can be said when one of the greatest of all time, Messi, has the ball, but when he does it he's seen as someone with great control of the ball - the defenders/midfielders aren't seen as "bad". Let's also not forget what kind of balls they were using then and the ones they players are using now.

It's impossible to say, but my guess is that the "oldies" would still be great, maybe even better than some of the best during this period. But like I said, I'm no expert, just my thoughts.

 

[horsechoker]

If football is entertainment and the football on display was entertaining then no it wasn't shite. Was it pretty to look at? Not always.

 

[Kentonio]

I'd still like to put today's top players on those pitches and feed them the food footballers were given back then (same as everyone else, basically), and see how they do.

I'll happily admit that if they played under todays conditions, having come up with todays fitness and training the best players from back then would probably be as good (or better) than anyone today. But they didn't..

 

[BBer13]

At the time some of the greats such and Pele and Cruyff were gifted a lot more time and space on the ball, defenders and defending wasn't anywhere near as advanced in terms of its approach and from an athletic point of view. The aspect of pressing wasn't as pronounced as it is today , nearly every team in some way or another apply pressure on the pitch either high or lower down in the final third these days. I think what we can all assume is elite players of that era had the technical ability to adapt to today's game, with better emphasis on fitness and nutrition they would have been better athletes and would have been able to deal with the higher pressure of games. These players might not have had the same impact on football if they were born today but im sure they would still be at the peak or very close in today's game.

 

[Nighteyes]

Cracking thread. Fully agree @Kentonio

 

[Member 55725]

Can't say I fully agree but great OP @Kentonio

 

[harms]

Exhibit C: The video evidence

Now exhibits A & B are open to some discussion, but most damningly of all we already know that olden days football was shit, because we have video evidence of it being shit.

And here I thought, what a surprisingly good OP after the provocative thread title

Not even talking about Pele or Cruyff, how many players today can replicate that kind of performance? Not sure that anyone else bar Messi or Hazard can control the ball in such fashion (and I'm not even counting an godawful pitch and a heavy rigid ball). And it's not like it was some historical performance by Finney, he was injured and didn't play to his full strength

What separates todays football are:

1. tactics
2. physical condition of the players

But the talent stays the same, the technique isn't improving, and it's amazing to watch some all-time greats performing

 

[Skills]

I agree with the general point. That Pele and Cruyff videos/montages look pretty good to me even compared to today. Just need them in 1080p

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Kentonio @Dir Wangem
No he doesnt have a point, at least not in most things in few he does.....

Exhibit A: This is where he is 100% correct, better pitches means better football and playing/watching players at horrible pitches was not pleasing.


Exhibit B: Half right there, players in general are much better fitness wise but even post 90s both smoked and drank heavily. Prosinecki smoked pack a day at the time he won CL with Zvezda and he was their best player alongside Savicevic.

Exhibit C: You realize there are also other videos of teams playing fantastic football and scoring great goals? Just like you can find crap performances and crap goals from today.

Pele: Players are developing skills all the time, there are kids today that can do staff that Ronaldinho probably cant, but most important thing is that we dont see those skills during the games, you can name maybe 5 players that were producing skills at the highest level from the beggining of the 90s until today.
I love skills but they are pretty irrelevant to the quality of football, someone pulling of a great skill move wont turn a crap game into a good one.

Cruyff: Check Messi, Robben or Neymar videos, you will see defenders doing the same things today.

 

[Raees]

You know when Akash is saying it is a cracking thread, then the OP is probably just on crack.

 

[Skills]

And here I thought, what a surprisingly good OP after the provocative thread title

Not even talking about Pele or Cruyff, how many players today can replicate that kind of performance? Not sure that anyone else bar Messi or Hazard can control the ball in such fashion (and I'm not even counting an godawful pitch and a heavy rigid ball)

What separates todays football are:

1. tactics
2. physical condition of the players

But the talent stays the same, the technique isn't improving, and it's amazing to watch some all-time greats performing

If that's true, that begs the question then why is football such a massive failure compared to other sports in that regard? Is it just because it's so simple/primitive, there isn't much you can improve on?

 

[harms]

If that's true, that begs the question then why is football such a massive failure compared to other sports in that regard? Is it just because it's so simple/primitive, there isn't much you can improve on?

Did technique seriously improves in other sports? Not talking about a general level (which does improve as more information is available to the child coaches, for example, children can fully focus on trainings etc.), but about the very best one?

Most of today's sportsmen are stronger and faster than their predecessors, but that's because of the regime, diet, improved medicine, are they better technically? If we discount the inventions like Leonidas' overhead kick, Cruyff's turn or Rivelino's elastico (if we believe that they invented them). The ball is round, people's feet doesn't change, and there is only so much you can do with them.

 

[redman5]

The conditions are vastly superior today, but I wouldn't say football is more exciting. You still get crap teams & crap games even with lush, all-year round green football pitches.

Great footballers are great footballers & shit footballers are shit footballers regardless of the era. Crowds would be prepared to queue for hours to watch players like Best, Dalglish, Duncan Edwards et al play on mudheaps. Nowadays most people couldn't be arsed picking up their remote control to watch a lot of the over-rated dross that pollute the green, green grass of a lot of football clubs.

 

[harms]

just watch that video and focus not on him but on the defenders and midfielders trying (not trying) to stop him. It's beyond shambolic, they lung in, he sidesteps them or does a quick turn and they're generally either on the floor or trying to kick him.

Is it different now?

edit - the best league in the world

Spoiler: I'll spoiler this

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Now wait, I think the OP is getting a little unfair criticism... I personally don't agree with everything said, but he's not criticising the footballers per se, he's calling the overall quality of football into question. Quotes like the one below only amplify the point.

I'd still like to put today's top players on those pitches and feed them the food footballers were given back then (same as everyone else, basically), and see how they do.

 

[Red_toad]

No it wasn't crap.

Under LVG & Moyes United were more tedious than any of the United teams of the early to mid 80's, even with a lovely pitch to play upon.

Standards of fitness and coaching has changed. But a crap game can happen in any generation. I watched many an exciting none crap game when I was a boy.
Watching post Fergie/ pre Jose United was dire. Technically far better players performing worse than Graeme Hogg on a bad day.

 

[Kentonio]

I personally don't agree with everything said, but he's not criticising the footballers per se, he's calling the overall quality of football into question.

Exactly. The standard of football amongst even low level PL teams at the moment is quite astonishing when you compare it to even the top teams from a couple of decades ago. That might sound insane, but seriously watch teams like Bournemouth or even Hull and don't focus on the quality gap between them and the big teams they're playing but just watch the football they're playing themselves. There's a big focus on quite intricate short passing of a kind that used to be the sole preserve of the really good teams.

It's been annoying me because of the repeated threads about how football toay is supposedly going through some huge quality slump. It's nonsense in my humble opinion, if you set aside the level of the top teams directly compared to the top teams from other countries, and just look at the overall quality of the game it's better than its ever been.

 

[Annahnomoss]

And here I thought, what a surprisingly good OP after the provocative thread title

Not even talking about Pele or Cruyff, how many players today can replicate that kind of performance? Not sure that anyone else bar Messi or Hazard can control the ball in such fashion (and I'm not even counting an godawful pitch and a heavy rigid ball). And it's not like it was some historical performance by Finney, he was injured and didn't play to his full strength


What separates todays football are:

1. tactics
2. physical condition of the players

But the talent stays the same, the technique isn't improving, and it's amazing to watch some all-time greats performing

 

[SirFergie]

Car crash of an OP.

 

[lem8sh]

I agree with the OP to a large extent.

 

[Annahnomoss]

The standard of dribbling was higher in the early days and that helps make the defenders look foolish. Like when you watch Maradona/Messi, the defender often looks terrible just because of their genius. The above examples are from the late 50's early 60's and the defenders do a similar job as their modern counter parts.

Sivori was an attacking midfielder(Inside right/left) and he'd be world class today as well no doubt. It was in fact sort of custom that the team had four dribbling wizards like Milan with Gren/Liedholm and later Liedholm/Schiaffino.

 

[Frank Grimes]

So you're basically saying that Phil Jones actually IS the new Duncan Edwards? Mind blown.

 

[JPRouve]

I have always thought that that game was a good publicity for pre 1990 football.

 

[RedRover]

Football is totally different now - mainly down to the cash that's flooded in. The average fan is nothing more than a cash cow being milked year in year out for thousands of pounds and the players are, almost always, difficult to like.

Whether it was better before the modern "PL" era is I suppose a matter of opinion.

 

[Jippy]

Would agree that some of the goalkeeping you see in old videos is comedic. Part of that is probably down to athleticism I suppose.

 

[2 man midfield]

People love to bash modern football for a multitude of reasons, but it's played to an incredible standard nowadays. I can only see it being worse the further back you go.

 

[Jippy]

Oh and Mexico '86 and Italia '90 were excellent tournaments.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Would agree that some of the goalkeeping you see in old videos is comedic. Part of that is probably down to athleticism I suppose.

Agree with that however!

 

[Stack]

Football is totally different now - mainly down to the cash that's flooded in. The average fan is nothing more than a cash cow being milked year in year out for thousands of pounds and the players are, almost always, difficult to like.

Whether it was better before the modern "PL" era is I suppose a matter of opinion.

We said the same thing in the early 70's

 

[Rozay]

I think there is great validity to the OP personally. I made a thread a couple of years back about the difficulty in comparing players from different generations for this reason.

I watch old United re-runs and highlights on MUTV all the time, and the first thing that springs to mind is how poor the standard is. And that is even in the 90s quite often. Some of our early Premier League era opponents look absolute terrible, and for a number of reasons (outlined in the OP), football on the whole has gotten better, and seemingly more difficult to excel I think.

I do agree that some players have had similar or even greater level of talent in earlier years than many today though, but if we could somehow transport our best from the last decade or two back in time, they would find football easier based on what I've seen.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Back pass rule certainly changed the game, surprised no mention of that.

 

[Jaybomb]

It was harder to play back then. And there was no player entitlement or diving after the slightest touch. Back then, you kept running.