Fred | Manchester United Player | For Reals

[Johan07]

Wow this thread is mental. A lot of football experts here giving an in depth run down on how Fred is and how he plays after watching him not at all or a few times. I have barely seen him play, we arent going to spend over £50m on a 25 year old to bed in him over a season or two, neither would I doubt we are buying him as a lesser player than Fellaini and Herrera. the person who said that has obfviously seen him more than me and others on here but why is everybody taking his word for it?
Utterly ludicrous comments on here. He has been bought to play first team football, whether he is a flop or a world class player lets see. Personally I am excited to see how he does as I hate Fellaini so anybody would be better, McTominay has done well in his first season but dont see him as a long term started and Herreras attitude I love but lets face it bar a period of 3/4 months he hasnt set the world alight. We have needed a signign there and Fred could be that man. The negativity I could understand if it is a player we all know well, but it isnt

I dont know if this is directed at me, but if it is I will take the bait. Yeah, I have probably seen Fred play a lot more than most of the posters on here. But I didnt use that as an argument for saying that he will fail. I tried to make the point that its really difficult to judge him on games he plays here in the Ukraine. I have seen him a lot and I have no clue how he will adapt to the PL. ITs impossible to say after seeing him play away at Chornomorets with 500 spectators on a snowy pitch. Which is kinda the norm for Ukrainian football nowadays.

I hope he will be an instant hit, I really do, but things were getting out of hand in this thread earlier when people were haussing him up to be the next Iniesta or something.

And also: £50m today isnt that much. I dont see how that number is an argument for him starting every game immediately. We bought Lindelöf for a similar amount (taking into account that he is a defender). Victor came from a way better league, had more caps (Fred has played 8 times for Brazil, six games are from 2015 in the Confederations cup when he was still playing in Brazil) and similar if not more European experience. Victor also speaks fluent English. Fred speaks none. What they do have in common is that they are both central players, which is the positions that is the most difficult to adapt to in the PL because of the tempo. Wing or FB are easier positions to adapt to.

Lindelöf has still not adapted fully, though it looked better and better after christmas. And people are wanting to get rid of him now when they spoke about him in the same words as some do about Fred now. It felt like a majority of the Caf was thinking that we would start with Bailly and Lindelöf last season. Didnt happen.

I love that United has an "Ukrainian" brazilian now. But lets give him a break and let him find his feet first before judging him.

And finally: I dont think Mourinho bought Fred because he is better than Fellaini or Herrera. I think he bought Fred because he is a different type of player than both of them and will bring another option to the team. When he is ready.

EDIT: One final thing (which actually Lindelöf and Fred have in common as well): Shaktar plays a possession-based system with a high back four and a high press. I would compare them to Spurs in the PL. Fred will need to adapt to the lowblock-defense without pressing that is Mourinhos football. Lindelöf had major issues with that since Benfica play completely differently than what United do. Which has been too overlooked IMO.

But lets hope he does adapt ASAP. No one would be happier than me.

 

[jesperjaap]

I dont know if this is directed at me, but if it is I will take the bait. Yeah, I have probably seen Fred play a lot more than most of the posters on here. But I didnt use that as an argument for saying that he will fail. I tried to make the point that its really difficult to judge him on games he plays here in the Ukraine. I have seen him a lot and I have no clue how he will adapt to the PL. ITs impossible to say after seeing him play away at Chornomorets with 500 spectators on a snowy pitch. Which is kinda the norm for Ukrainian football nowadays.

I hope he will be an instant hit, I really do, but things were getting out of hand in this thread earlier when people were haussing him up to be the next Iniesta or something.

And also: £50m today isnt that much. I dont see how that number is an argument for him starting every game immediately. We bought Lindelöf for a similar amount (taking into account that he is a defender). Victor came from a way better league, had more caps (Fred has played 8 times for Brazil, six games are from 2015 in the Confederations cup when he was still playing in Brazil) and similar if not more European experience. Victor also speaks fluent English. Fred speaks none. What they do have in common is that they are both central players, which is the positions that is the most difficult to adapt to in the PL because of the tempo. Wing or FB are easier positions to adapt to.

Lindelöf has still not adapted fully, though it looked better and better after christmas. And people are wanting to get rid of him now when they spoke about him in the same words as some do about Fred now. It felt like a majority of the Caf was thinking that we would start with Bailly and Lindelöf last season. Didnt happen.

I love that United has an "Ukrainian" brazilian now. But lets give him a break and let him find his feet first before judging him.

And finally: I dont think Mourinho bought Fred because he is better than Fellaini or Herrera. I think he bought Fred because he is a different type of player than both of them and will bring another option to the team. When he is ready.

EDIT: One final thing (which actually Lindelöf and Fred have in common as well): Shaktar plays a possession-based system with a high back four and a high press. I would compare them to Spurs in the PL. Fred will need to adapt to the lowblock-defense without pressing that is Mourinhos football. Lindelöf had major issues with that since Benfica play completely differently than what United do. Which has been too overlooked IMO.

But lets hope he does adapt ASAP. No one would be happier than me.

Sorry you were offended, it wasnt a direct attack on you, was merely stating it crazy people are being negative based upon one persons (yours) opinion of him that they dont even know when they havent barely seen him play and he hasnt even started playing for us.

As for Lindelof, I had seen him for Sweden and Benfica more than a dozen times before we signed him. Just my opinion, but an awful signing. An average centre back signed when we already have loads of avergae centre backs, we need a top quality one....we still do a year later.

He had a decent world cup, but he seems to have the turning capabilities of Senderos, saw it exposed on several occasions, including the England game. Done nothing to convince me he has a future here, but I didnt want him in the first place.

As for Fred, obviously there are cultural issues, language issues and premiership football issues to adapt to. Saying that, playing alongside Matic and Pogba especially at home you would expect us to be dominating the possesion most of the time. I wouldnt expect him to hit the ground running, but he should be ablt to fit into that side and perform with a relative period of time.

Personally dont buy into all this sytems, double pivots, flase number 9s etc etc etc. Half these supposed new styles of football have been around 30 years ago, just without the fancy names. If you are good enough you should be able to adapt and it isnt all about sytems and tactics, look at Japan 4-4-2, simple high tempo, passing football that was a joy to watch, football is a simple game

 

[Johan07]

Sorry you were offended, it wasnt a direct attack on you, was merely stating it crazy people are being negative based upon one persons (yours) opinion of him that they dont even know when they havent barely seen him play and he hasnt even started playing for us.

As for Lindelof, I had seen him for Sweden and Benfica more than a dozen times before we signed him. Just my opinion, but an awful signing. An average centre back signed when we already have loads of avergae centre backs, we need a top quality one....we still do a year later.

He had a decent world cup, but he seems to have the turning capabilities of Senderos, saw it exposed on several occasions, including the England game. Done nothing to convince me he has a future here, but I didnt want him in the first place.

As for Fred, obviously there are cultural issues, language issues and premiership football issues to adapt to. Saying that, playing alongside Matic and Pogba especially at home you would expect us to be dominating the possesion most of the time. I wouldnt expect him to hit the ground running, but he should be ablt to fit into that side and perform with a relative period of time.

Personally dont buy into all this sytems, double pivots, flase number 9s etc etc etc. Half these supposed new styles of football have been around 30 years ago, just without the fancy names. If you are good enough you should be able to adapt and it isnt all about sytems and tactics, look at Japan 4-4-2, simple high tempo, passing football that was a joy to watch, football is a simple game

No worries, I wasnt offended really. Took it more like an opportunity to explain what I meant.

And I agree with you about Lindelöf btw. Even if I am Swedish and its always nice to have a countryman playing for United. I was surprised by that signing as well. Still: I think he has deserved one more year to prove himself. I think he will have a tough time though. He isnt good enough in the air and physical enough for the PL. Traits that were not really laid bare when playing for Benfica; a team that doesnt really defend many crosses for an entire season. So we will see how the PL will treat Fred who also comes from a completely different enviroment. Will be interesting as I think I stated in my first post.

I mean: best case both Fred and Lindelöf will do well. I am hoping so at least.

 

[sunama]

Johan07 is putting a good argument. The biggest, factual point he highlighted is that he is coming from a VERY poor league, in which he wasn't particularly outstanding.
It seems strange that the only counter argument is, "well...he cost £50M, so he must be great".
Before the season starts, given his coherent reasoning, I am certainly inclined to believe what Johan is saying.
Of course, once the season begins, Fred will create a new chapter in his career. He may hit the ground running and be a revelation. Or he may just be a squad player.
I do hope that it's the former.

Personally dont buy into all this sytems, double pivots, flase number 9s etc etc etc. Half these supposed new styles of football have been around 30 years ago, just without the fancy names. If you are good enough you should be able to adapt and it isnt all about sytems and tactics, look at Japan 4-4-2, simple high tempo, passing football that was a joy to watch, football is a simple game

Agreed 100%.

 

[Lennon7]

If Jesse’s heading out already, shouldn’t he be? Having been knocked out a round early and not played a minute?

Or is Jesse just going on holiday to the same place United are training?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If Jesse’s heading out already, shouldn’t he be? Having been knocked out a round early and not played a minute?

Or is Jesse just going on holiday to the same place United are training?

Is Jesse really joining the squad before the other WC players? Be amazed if that was true.

 

[muller]

Judging from his social media, Jesse's on holiday with friends.

 

[Rozay]

Is Jesse really joining the squad before the other WC players? Be amazed if that was true.

Jesse is not with the squad, and probably wouldn’t be allowed to even if he wanted to.

 

[RussellWilson]

Not sure if the above has been posted but it's all his touches vs Real Madrid. I'd say a very impressive match. Always plays forward when the opportunity comes and breaks the lines along the ground, something we miss without Carrick. The ex-winger comes through as well, as you see the quick feet and the tight turning circle when he's trying evade trouble or turn to face play. Again a quality we lack in the middle, both Matic and Pogba use their size to shield the ball and turn away but this isn't the best option when things are tight and we're being penned in a little. In those situations a sharp turn or a quick short dribble can often break the press better.

Loads more similar videos if you type in "Fred Vs" on youtube. They give a good flavour of the player and I like what I see, and have high hopes he can improve our play through the middle.

 

[Lennon7]

Is Jesse really joining the squad before the other WC players? Be amazed if that was true.

Well, he’s in LA. Seems to just be riding round on his snap/insta stories but feck knows.

 

[United Pro]

Not sure if the above has been posted but it's all his touches vs Real Madrid. I'd say a very impressive match. Always plays forward when the opportunity comes and breaks the lines along the ground, something we miss without Carrick. The ex-winger comes through as well, as you see the quick feet and the tight turning circle when he's trying evade trouble or turn to face play. Again a quality we lack in the middle, both Matic and Pogba use their size to shield the ball and turn away but this isn't the best option when things are tight and we're being penned in a little. In those situations a sharp turn or a quick short dribble can often break the press better.

Loads more similar videos if you type in "Fred Vs" on youtube. They give a good flavour of the player and I like what I see, and have high hopes he can improve our play through the middle.

Agreed. That game was from 3 years seasons back and Fred has improved since. @Johan07 had a very good post about Fred, but, I re-watched some of his individual performances in the champions league over the last few games and he looked very impressive. Comfortable on the ball and passes it forward when given the opportunity. He could take a while to get used to the physicality and pace of the league. But, on paper Fred looks a very good signing that will complement both Pogba and Matic.

 

[Zoo]

If Jesse’s heading out already, shouldn’t he be? Having been knocked out a round early and not played a minute?

Or is Jesse just going on holiday to the same place United are training?

Almost certainly going on holiday.

 

[Johan07]

Agreed. That game was from 3 years seasons back and Fred has improved since. @Johan07 had a very good post about Fred, but, I re-watched some of his individual performances in the champions league over the last few games and he looked very impressive. Comfortable on the ball and passes it forward when given the opportunity. He could take a while to get used to the physicality and pace of the league. But, on paper Fred looks a very good signing that will complement both Pogba and Matic.

Yeah, I agree on this. Fred has done well for Shaktar in the CL and I am sure that its his performances there that United have scouted him from first and foremost. Playing DM for a completely dominant Shaktar in the Ukrainian league doesnt really add much to the knowledge base I would say. Then its another thing if his performances in Europe will translate to the PL. Will be interesting.

Does anyone know when and if he will join up for the US tour? I have seen different reports here in the Ukraine; from him still coping with the injury that almost kept him out of the WC to him getting a new injury during the WC camp.

His Shaktar teammate Taison (who also was a part of the WC squad) seems to be still on holiday in Brazil so maybe the same applies to Fred. Taisons mum got kidnapped in some favela in Brazil recently btw trying to ransom him for money while he was home, dont know how much that has been reported internationally. Ltb off-topic I know.....

EDIT: MUSCS homepage states today that neither Fred or Lindelöf will travel to the US and that they will be available for selection at the earliest for the last preseason game at the Allianz Arena against Bayern. Guess you can see it as a missed opportunity to integrate Fred as early as possible into the team or as a good thing for him to be able to settle in Manchester and at Carrington while the rest of the team is travelling. Some of the other WC players will probably be around Carrington also so it might not be the end of the world if true...

 

[United Pro]

Yeah, I agree on this. Fred has done well for Shaktar in the CL and I am sure that its his performances there that United have scouted him from first and foremost. Playing DM for a completely dominant Shaktar in the Ukrainian league doesnt really add much to the knowledge base I would say. Then its another thing if his performances in Europe will translate to the PL. Will be interesting.

Does anyone know when and if he will join up for the US tour? I have seen different reports here in the Ukraine; from him still coping with the injury that almost kept him out of the WC to him getting a new injury during the WC camp.

His Shaktar teammate Taison (who also was a part of the WC squad) seems to be still on holiday in Brazil so maybe the same applies to Fred. Taisons mum got kidnapped in some favela in Brazil recently btw trying to ransom him for money while he was home, dont know how much that has been reported internationally. Ltb off-topic I know.....

EDIT: MUSCS homepage states today that neither Fred or Lindelöf will travel to the US and that they will be available for selection at the earliest for the last preseason game at the Allianz Arena against Bayern. Guess you can see it as a missed opportunity to integrate Fred as early as possible into the team or as a good thing for him to be able to settle in Manchester and at Carrington while the rest of the team is travelling. Some of the other WC players will probably be around Carrington also so it might not be the end of the world if true...

Yeah agreed. Ukrainian league games are, like you said, not a very good standard. So, City and United would have scouted Fred more prominently in European games. Whether Fred will be able to translate his Shakhtar performances into the premier league is another question though.

And, I've read that the players that played from the quarter finals onwards will only join up with the squad for the game against Bayern.

I also saw the news on Taison. Crazy stuff. Really highlights how important football can be to making it out of the favelas there. Well, maybe not for the mothers.

 

[charlenefan]

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[TomMUFC8]

Looking forward to seeing him join up with the squad and get a look at where Jose sees him in midfield. Amazing how so many people are overlooking this signing. Gone are the days when you sign a Brazilian international for 50m and it's exciting. So many are treating this as old business and need a new shiny toy.

 

[Rozay]

Looking forward to seeing him join up with the squad and get a look at where Jose sees him in midfield. Amazing how so many people are overlooking this signing. Gone are the days when you sign a Brazilian international for 50m and it's exciting. So many are treating this as old business and need a new shiny toy.

Can’t wait to see him too, shame he won’t be playing with Pogba though.

 

[TomMUFC8]

Can’t wait to see him too, shame he won’t be playing with Pogba though.

Yeh might actually be a while before we see that potential partnership, possibly a few games into the season. On paper though, it does look promising.

 

[tenpoless]

He's almost forgotten despite being our newest signing. The preseason hasn't even started. Good sign.

 

[Johan07]

I would not be surprised at all if Mourinho gives Fred his first games at RW, rotating with Mata and Jesse. Obviously its not his long term position but given Mourinhos love for discipline and system awareness; especially at CM I wouldnt be surprised at all if he starts him out there. You read it here first)

 

[Carlsen19]

I would not be surprised at all if Mourinho gives Fred his first games at RW, rotating with Mata and Jesse. Obviously its not his long term position but given Mourinhos love for discipline and system awareness; especially at CM I wouldnt be surprised at all if he starts him out there. You read it here first)

I think you could be right.

 

[PeteManic]

Any murmurs on squad number?