be patient you prick 
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Yes, you have to do it properly. I'm not going to spoil it, but in another well loved show which I won't mention by name, we get introduced to some important characters half way through the final season. They have plenty of screen time, plenty of character development, and those episodes are rated as some of the highest in the show. (they do sideline some of the main characters though).
What with the timing on the show these days, it probably turns out they were only on Dragonglass for half an hour.
Absolutely not. I just don't want a romantic conclusion simply to appease the masses. It would be a complete sell-out considering the type of show it is. Popular shows do not have to succumb to popular opinion when it comes to how to end them. Breaking Bad, a show I often found to have convenient plotlines to suit the protagonist, didn't mince their finale simply to give the audience a feel-good pay-off, and I applaud the writers for that. Walter White did not ride off into the sunset as many viewers would have liked. The Snow/Danaerys arc in Game of Thrones is no doubt hurtling down that direction.
You aren't getting my point. If they spent more time on the buildup and gave us the same battle scenes, we'd be complaining about how lame the battle was after all that buildup. The buildup was short/non existent because the actual battle wasn't much either, because they aren't funded by Disney/Marvel.
OK, so youre going to tune out / not watch because it 'might' head in a direction you dont want it to.
Got it.
With the Sand Snakes and now Euron, the viewers are given only the very shallowest ideas of what motivates them. The Sand Snakes had no characteristics other than that they were seeking revenge at any cost, so much so that their revenge mission led them to do some really stupid stuff. And now Euron, who is crazy and violent because...well he just is, and we'd better just accept it without knowing anything else about what motivates him. It really wouldn't take up much screen time to devote a little more attention to filling out these characters a little.
Isn't that the premise to enjoying any show?
I said it before and I'll say it again: ultra-defensive viewers of the show, despite claims to the contrary, are more difficult to discuss the show with than those who over-critique it.
*EDIT: For what it's worth, I enjoyed last night's episode, as I did E02 of this season. They are balancing the impending battle for the throne, which had to be done to prolong the storyline, but we know as viewers it's only to make the Snow/Danaerys victory appear less clear-cut.
Edit: was just reading the coin posts.
But what if they give us the ending GRRM intends and it is Jon and Dany surviving her ruling the 7 kingdoms, him moving on the do whatever he wants, Then what?
If they are not enjoying it, then it makes more sense to give it up and not waste anymore time on something that does not entertain them.
If that's what Martin intends, fine. I'll just find it ridiculously soppy and ludicrously far-fetched*. Danaerys is a nothing character, continually dragged out of trouble time and time again by convenient interventions. I did not relate to her initially and now I find her downright infuriating seven seasons later, although that could just be me. I reserve the right as a viewer to not be satisfied with that conclusion if I so wish.
*Yes, I do know it's a show about dragons and resurrection and all sorts of other magic shit.
I do think a Jon-Daenerys getting together/fighting the WW's together-type conclusion would be a bit meh, and that the two finding themselves in conflict would be a lot more interesting.
And yet another poster reveals himself just to be on a wum.
Although the show has almost made its name off the back of bucking conventions and drawing a narrative away from where the audience assumes it will head, i do think at some point something has to give and there will be a natural "merging" of the main arcs towards that sort of joint endeavour, because from a story point of view, its the only thing that can happen if there's any real hope of survival. There's no way the ending will be a happy affair but i wouldn't be against the people you've been rooted for for so long getting a proper "win" at some point.
I'd expect a lot of the arcs to converge, but considering CGI etc we tend not to get too many scenes of the White Walkers, so I'm kind of intrigued as to where the conflict's going to be if it's just a straight humans vs WW's story next season.
Re: chronology:
Chronology isn't really the problem. The problem is that everyone is suddenly able to jump around the map with nothing interesting happening!
I was thinking about this, and for me a good example is Robb's alliance with the Freys earlier in the show. Robb's essentially got to bargain and negotiate with a smallish vassal house just to progress to somewhere else in Westeros. So when he does make that deal, and then progresses to fights with the Lannisters etc his victories feel earned.
The problem at the moment is that characters are essentially able to dot around a warzone without difficulty or conflict. Euron's fleet going to Casterly Rock presumably encounter no problems. Jaime seems to have won over all the Reach lords with no difficulty whatsoever, facing no opposition in spite of their enemy having three dragons and their liege lord supporting that enemy. For some reason, Ellaria and Sand Snakes seem to be, like, the only people who exist in Dorne.
I understand why the show's doing this because presenting the conflicts and struggles in dealing with a ton of minor houses in every region would be a nightmare logistically, especially when the show needs to move the plot forward, but it does feel like things have been stripped back a bit in that sense...and it's jarring especially when compared to earlier seasons.
My point is youre criticising a show on what might happen rather than what is happening. You dont want an ending that appeases the masses as its too TV, but isnt the end point pretty much gonna be what the book writer intended (and the journey may differ due to certain constraints).
Dont get me wrong, I too dont want a soppy ending or one thats too contrived as I think it will ruin almost 7 seasons of great TV and I do think it deserves a fitting ending (whatever it may be). But it might also not be as simple as youre saying.
What I dont get though is if youre going to stop watching it, what is the purpose of posting that? What were you intending to gain by saying youre thinking of stopping? Im honestly intrigued by that.
Which kinda makes the point im trying to make. They introduced the SS and tbh, I hated it. It was poor writing and probably the worst thing the show has done. All around it was poor which was such a let down after we were introduced to Oberyn the season before.
Euron to a lesser extent, but at least we know his motivation is from the very first scene we see him. And we know what he wants to do (hence why hes doing stuff this season).
Id rather they not introduce new characters was my point because it would require time which could be better used elsewhere.
God that episode was so slooow. Nothing happened. GOT is overatedz.
So characters growing a longer beard or some random soldier falling overboard is interesting?
Yes. Oversimplification is one of the problems amongst many.
I think other shows have managed it successfully enough. A good example would be Tony Soprano's last antagonist Phil Leotardo, who only takes centre stage in the final season, yet we learn an impressive amount on his back story even with the little amount of screen time he's afforded.
I think the problem here is more that the writers chose the wrong characters to base the Dorne and Iron Islands stories around. There were other, better options available in the source material, but they chose the less involved, more two-dimensional characters for reasons I don't really understand beyond the argument that they're just poor writers.
Mainly because the Dragons are still being held up on Dragonstone for the reasons they stated quite clearly in the show. The Lannisters did not do what Tyrion thought they would, so they are not in a position to help the Tyrells out, again since their army and dragons are either on Dragonstone or sent to Casterly Rock. These are the sort of things that actually do happen in war.
Dorne being deep in the South, presents no obstacle to anyone marching around the main areas of Westeros. We don't know what is happening with Dorne right now, that is true, because their leaders have just been taken out, so there is nobody around to give orders, a classic decapitation strike, so it is not that unlikely that Dorne would not be able to influence things right now. I suppose they could show some sort of power struggle or show that the new leaders have bent the knee to Cersei. But maybe that is yet to come or maybe Dorne is done as part of the story.
Also, Rob HAD to negotiate with the Frey's as getting over the river , which could only really be done through the Twins, was the only way he could get at the Lannister Army quickly and easily, plus he and his mother believed getting access to Frey troops would be helpful to their cause. No such problem exists it seems in getting from Casterly Rock to the Reach. It is sort of important to understand WHY Rob was negotiating with the Frey's.
Aye, that same poster posted earlier that "the show has appeased the masses ever since Ned Stark was offed". I mean, how has the show gone into appeasing the masses when they've literally been following the books, up until now? Or I doubt they'd have killed off Rob etc.
I'm not sure a "happy ending" is such a massive problem either. As long as the show, en route to that ending, is top quality. I mean, complaining about Jon and Danaerys escaping too many difficult situations with their life intact....isn't that the point of most shows/stories/tv/movies - storytelling which usually involves a few protagonists and antagonists - ones we can feel emotionally invested in? If they killed off every main character (good or bad!) every season - they might as well follow a True detective type formula and introduce new characters every season.
I don't really understand that criticism. But then again, I have a limited understanding of the intricacies of what constitutes good film/tv, I just simply watch the show because it's damn good entertainment and excellent tv.
Same poster also claims that a main character since season one is a nothing character, sort of an odd statement really, there are a few critics here who obviously as just wumming and are best put on ignore because they really have nothing worthwhile to say about the show.
Daenarys is a nothing character. Absolutely nothing she finds herself involved in can be described as being emotive or interesting, and her portrayal in the show - with the ham acting and such - makes it even worse.
Being a main character or not has nothing at all to do with it.
Being a main character or not has nothing at all to do with it.
Interesting take, being a main character and a nothing character at the same time.
You do realise they can be independent of one another, yes? Just because the writers make her a prominent character in the story, it doesn't necessarily equate to her being a valuable character.
Yes, sometimes. It depends entirely on the quality of the writing.
Jon has decided to travel half way across the 7 kingdoms to visit Danny. It's the first time he's left the North. He's obviously taking some people with him... maybe someone there has taken a fancy to him.
I mean compare it to Robb Stark. He had people around him could trust and people around him he couldn't trust. He was meant to marry a Tully to cement the friendship between the two houses. He instead got in a relationship with that Skins woman with great tits.
If we hadn't had all that side story, we would never have got to see those boobs. But more importantly, the pay off would have been far smaller. And by the the pay off, I mean. Well, you know what I mean.
The problem isnt with the show. Its with you and your love of tits!
It's like one hour per week. After having put so much time into it I'd consider it a bit of a waste not to see it through to it's conclusion for the sake of a few more hours of my life.
This is why I'm still watching The Walking Dead though, so I realise I may have just destroyed my own argument.
Isnt that planned for like, 15 seasons? 15 seasons of nothingness and idiots constantly being outsmarted by zombies.
Cannae even remember what season i stopped on twd.
NOTE: The you is not meant to be YOU Welsh Wonder, just a generic you.
But then it also makes little sense to keep complaining about how awful the show is. You make your choice to watch a show that you have come to hate. Then you go out to an internet forum to complain about how awful the show is, spending additional time on it. I guess I can understand wanting to see it through to the end, but if a person makes a choice to continue watching a show they hate, it makes very little sense to complain about the show, especially if the poster then wants to talk about logic and reason.
But then again this type of behavior then sort of proves the point that you can't really make judgements about how characters should behave since real life humans are also prone to doing things that do not seem logical.
Maybe that's the secret GOT plan too!
Kill off all the main characters to cut the wage bill.
Then have 10 seasons of them fighting the dead.
Ser Rick....Ser Coral....come quickly the White Walkers are attacking Ser T-Dog IX!
This is my club of Valerian Steel I call it Lucille!
I absolutely love the teleportation plot twist, in case no one have noticed or discussed that already.