Escobar
Shameless Musketeer
It is an amazing show and people need to get over that shitty ending now ffs
Ive been thinking about it, and for me it probably is. I mean since 2000 im thinking about shows which might be better (that ive seen)Now that Digital Spy poll is obviously complete bollocks because there's no way GoT is the best TV show of the last 20 years,
I don't think it can be disputed that it was the biggest and most popular show of the century thus far, except maybe for Lost. But even then, Lost wasn't pirated to the extent that Game of Thrones was. Internationally, I remember seeing that season 7's episodes were downloaded more than a billion times in total (so, roughly 150m illegal downloads per episode), and those download figures were always consistently high, even during the early days where it was popular on HBO but not a worldwide phenomenon. If we're talking about event television (where battle episodes are like cup finals, and the weeks in between episodes are full of feverish excitement and anticipation) then I don't think GoT has any rival for this century. But in terms of quality, eh...Ive been thinking about it, and for me it probably is. I mean since 2000 im thinking about shows which might be better (that ive seen)
Shield, Wire, Breaking Bad didnt have the amazing drop off that GoT had. But I really think GoT had the highest peak of the shows and thats for 6 seasons. You could even include season 7 minus the episode they go north of north (as the moneytrain episode was just fantastic and the season finale was a lot of fun too).
Depends on preference of course and whether youre going for overall quality (or which had higher quality consistently and not worried about the drop at the end).
Who could have guessed eh?This goes on a bit so I'll spoiler.
I'm not clicking on it.Who could have guessed eh?
Ha.Who could have guessed eh?
@robinamicrowave For me the first four seasons had great characters, dialogue, plot. Season 5 dialogue and plot suffered once we went to Dorne (but outside of that it was still enjoyable). S6 had great moments and spectacles but still some strong characters and probably the last villain you wanted to see suffer. S7 changed direction, but the dialogue was suffering. And characters were doing stupid things that just didnt make sense. I mean people argue about Jon Snow in s6 BoB, but I think it fit with what he was and how he was after coming back from death. But his character amongst others became a parody of themselves for the convenience of plot whereas before it seemed plot was being driven by the characters action and nonaction.
But the highs of GoT for me, was higher than any other shows. Not just the spectacles but the intrigue behind mystery's (eg what is up with NK, what is up with the raven following Bran in his dreams, what is the story behind Jons parentage, who is the chosen one, when will Dany finally arrive with her amassed army and dragons, what will happen when the dragons take on the army of the dead, etc).
All of that seemed to just be wiped so they could finish it which will always be the disappointment, but the journey up until then was just magnificent. Not just as event TV but as a show itself with intrigue, plot, mystery and characters who were all driven with their own motives (and werent just the typical good guy/badguy).
It was season 7 when they had people travelling thousands of miles in the blink of an eye that I realised that continuity had gone out the window. They also started to develop story lines that didn't make sense like the travelling north and losing a dragon just to give the Night King a method of breaching the wall. I realised then that we had moved from a story driven spectacle to an action driven one.The episode itself was wonderfully produced, one of the most incredible bits of TV I can remember.
As part of a broader story though, it was a bit of a disappointment along with the rest of season 8, and probably season 7 as well.
I have some sympathy with them there. I really enjoy book 4 and 5, but they’re a lot more bloated than the preceding books. I think they have some of the best writing and definitely embody a lot of the themes that are important to Martin, but I don’t think the show could have followed the same path without having to add a lot of hours and characters to what was already a massive production.For me its quite clear the show runners only really liked the first 3 books and lost interest after they televised the red wedding.
Yeah I mean he introduced a whole load more characters in kingdoms that hadn't been visited up to that point and made them key to the story. Its probably not the easiest to do in a show with actors that you are paying millions for.I have some sympathy with them there. I really enjoy book 4 and 5, but they’re a lot more bloated than the preceding books. I think they have some of the best writing and definitely embody a lot of the themes that are important to Martin, but I don’t think the show could have followed the same path without having to add a lot of hours and characters to what was already a massive production.
They definitely strayed away from what made the books so appealing though, and by extension the show. The nuance just evaporated. Characters ended up becoming fairly broad strokes of their sole character trait. The blurred line between good and bad was abolished, their was no more grey. The lack of clarity over the WW and their motivations is unforgivable writing, they were just the big bad who had to be defeated by our heroes.
One caveat: you said the first 3 books, but said it declined after S3: book 3 covers S4 as well and is often considered the best.Yeah I mean he introduced a whole load more characters in kingdoms that hadn't been visited up to that point and made them key to the story. Its probably not the easiest to do in a show with actors that you are paying millions for.
The problem for me is that the writers seemingly only enjoyed 'oh shit' moments and 'badassery' and not the political drama and intrigue or complex characters or development- which were what made the show great in between the 'oh shit' moments. As soon as they got freedom from GRRM's story the quality of the writing plummeted because they were only superficially interested in the world and likely didn't understand or care to understand anything about where it is heading beyond R+L=J
To be fair, the plot and series as a whole went very sketchy as soon it overtook the books. Most of the new plots developed by the show, and deviations from the books were generally a bit shit, so it’s no wonder the story nosedived after they ran out of source material.It was season 7 when they had people travelling thousands of miles in the blink of an eye that I realised that continuity had gone out the window. They also started to develop story lines that didn't make sense like the travelling north and losing a dragon just to give the Night King a method of breaching the wall. I realised then that we had moved from a story driven spectacle to an action driven one.
Cascarino said:I have some sympathy with them there. I really enjoy book 4 and 5, but they’re a lot more bloated than the preceding books.
I don’t have much sympathy there. I understand leaving out theYeah I mean he introduced a whole load more characters in kingdoms that hadn't been visited up to that point and made them key to the story. Its probably not the easiest to do in a show with actors that you are paying millions for.
Yeah very much agreed.The problem for me is that the writers seemingly only enjoyed 'oh shit' moments and 'badassery' and not the political drama and intrigue or complex characters or development- which were what made the show great in between the 'oh shit' moments. As soon as they got freedom from GRRM's story the quality of the writing plummeted because they were only superficially interested in the world and likely didn't understand or care to understand anything about where it is heading beyond R+L=J
I'm half with youI don’t have much sympathy there. I understand leaving out the
Aegon/Connington plot and Stoneheart
but what they did with Dorne and the Iron Islands is unforgivable, especially Euron. Those are two stories that could have really freshened up the show after the epicness of season 4 and they fecked it up about as bad as was possible. I just don’t think they were arsed with actually developing new, complex characters and plots at that stage. But there’s more than enough material in those two books to have done so.
Fair point, its after S4 that it goes to shit. There are aspects of S4 that were overly simplified from the books to the point where it destroys the important character development of their book counterparts because of the black and white goodies and baddies logic that seeped into the show even at that point (they should never have cut Tysha as that plotline is central to Tyrion in books 4 onward), however it was still close enough to the books to be great and Oberyn was cast superbly.One caveat: you said the first 3 books, but said it declined after S3: book 3 covers S4 as well and is often considered the best.
I don't recommend listening to the audiobook for 5. You run the risk of falling asleep. Doesn't help that Roy Dotrice is a really bad narrator and is disappointing considering how good his real voice is.I have some sympathy with them there. I really enjoy book 4 and 5, but they’re a lot more bloated than the preceding books. I think they have some of the best writing and definitely embody a lot of the themes that are important to Martin, but I don’t think the show could have followed the same path without having to add a lot of hours and characters to what was already a massive production.
They definitely strayed away from what made the books so appealing though, and by extension the show. The nuance just evaporated. Characters ended up becoming fairly broad strokes of their sole character trait. The blurred line between good and bad was abolished, their was no more grey. The lack of clarity over the WW and their motivations is unforgivable writing, they were just the big bad who had to be defeated by our heroes.
It’s a crap show and people need to stop overrating it from mediocrity ffs.It is an amazing show and people need to get over that shitty ending now ffs
Actually will check it out later as I enjoy reading your stuff (well some of what I've seen in this thread ha)Oi, check out this smarmy cnut.
Oh Bunny.People say that people never talk about the short livid British soap Eldorado. And yet here I am talking about it so many years later, in a GOT thread that is completely unrelated to the show. Love it, hate it, or ignore it, but that it's still alive in conversation so many years later proves just how bug the cultural impact of the show is and how you can't dismiss Eldorado.
Explain that atheists.
I would avoid it like the plague but ta very much.Actually will check it out later as I enjoy reading your stuff (well some of what I've seen in this thread ha)
You have got no taste thenIt’s a crap show and people need to stop overrating it from mediocrity ffs.
Opinions eh?
I’d say the same about people creaming themselves over this. It was decent at best for a few seasons and then became staggeringly bad.You have got no taste then
Stuff like Breaking Bad, The Wire has endured. GoT disappeared from everyone's minds after a month.
Shane88 said:Location: Targaryen loyalist
I like this interpretation! I think if I was watching on TV the repeated incidents of people slowly rising to their feet after getting stabbed would get a bit repetitive, but I have always wondered how the story would have ended in the parallel universe where the Night King is the final boss and the Army of the Dead makes it to King's Landing, so I'll take this as parallel canon. You've actually inspired me to finish my own 'fanfic ending' that I've been working on, just on and off, during lockdown. Nothing in the plot changes in mine (except Jaime & Brienne don't sleep together because I always thought that was pretty unimaginative), but you just get more quiet scenes in between the bigger ones. Hoping to expand the season out to the full ten episodes by splitting 'The Last of the Starks' into 3/4 and 'The Iron Throne' into two.Oi, check out this smarmy cnut.
That was actually pretty cool man. Always thought the final battle should have been the WW in kings landing.Oi, check out this smarmy cnut.
I disagree. This show is still one of the best ever.I’d say the same about people creaming themselves over this. It was decent at best for a few seasons and then became staggeringly bad.
This in a nutshell.
Any moderately nerd fans could make a 10x better ending. But they can't finish it in 6x1.5 hours time slot.I wasn't really bothered about a lot of the last two series it's still good tv. It's just the final character arcs should have been so much better and they totally wasted the Night King ascpect they built up for so long.
I honestly don't think it is a stretch to admit that fans wherever they are from could have come up with better endings for many of the characters.
Guess at a timelineWho could have guessed eh?
I like this interpretation! I think if I was watching on TV the repeated incidents of people slowly rising to their feet after getting stabbed would get a bit repetitive, but I have always wondered how the story would have ended in the parallel universe where the Night King is the final boss and the Army of the Dead makes it to King's Landing, so I'll take this as parallel canon. You've actually inspired me to finish my own 'fanfic ending' that I've been working on, just on and off, during lockdown. Nothing in the plot changes in mine (except Jaime & Brienne don't sleep together because I always thought that was pretty unimaginative), but you just get more quiet scenes in between the bigger ones. Hoping to expand the season out to the full ten episodes by splitting 'The Last of the Starks' into 3/4 and 'The Iron Throne' into two.
The first three episodes stay exactly as they are. But "episode 4" instead cuts to black on Daenerys telling Jon not to reveal his heritage to Sansa and Arya ("I've just told you how"); "episode 5" ends with Tyrion blacking out after being hit on the head by that beam (after Rhaegal is killed); "episode 6" opens with Grey Worm trying to find Missandei on the beach and cuts to black on Jaime deciding to head south. Then I'd start rearranging things. Jon arrives at Dragonstone in "episode 7" and realises he can't follow through on his love for Dany, Tyrion and Varys have secret arguments over which Targaryen is best, Varys eventually turns on Dany and the episode ends with his execution. In "episode 8", Dany takes her armies to King's Landing and that's when Missandei gets beheaded. Then 'The Bells' stays at it is. "Episode 9" ends with Drogon taking Dany's body to the east; "episode 10" starts with Tyrion being brought to the council and ends where the show does.
Same plotline, just... more space.
Awwww you guysThat was actually pretty cool man. Always thought the final battle should have been the WW in kings landing.
I like this. It still just irks me that they rushed the ending. And for what? A Disney deal they no longer have.The first three episodes stay exactly as they are. But "episode 4" instead cuts to black on Daenerys telling Jon not to reveal his heritage to Sansa and Arya ("I've just told you how"); "episode 5" ends with Tyrion blacking out after being hit on the head by that beam (after Rhaegal is killed); "episode 6" opens with Grey Worm trying to find Missandei on the beach and cuts to black on Jaime deciding to head south. Then I'd start rearranging things. Jon arrives at Dragonstone in "episode 7" and realises he can't follow through on his love for Dany, Tyrion and Varys have secret arguments over which Targaryen is best, Varys eventually turns on Dany and the episode ends with his execution. In "episode 8", Dany takes her armies to King's Landing and that's when Missandei gets beheaded. Then 'The Bells' stays at it is. "Episode 9" ends with Drogon taking Dany's body to the east; "episode 10" starts with Tyrion being brought to the council and ends where the show does.
For your pleasure!I like this. It still just irks me that they rushed the ending. And for what? A Disney deal they no longer have.