German Football 20/21

Piratesoup

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Richard's still a bit suspect on defense but he's hit two lovely crosses now.
 

Piratesoup

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Can't defend free kicks to save our lives. Our defensive setup overall with Boateng and Alaba is not working at all anymore. Alaba has been especially horrible since the season started.
 

GhastlyHun

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Well that was easy.
 

Piratesoup

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And we win it with the Manchester United special. Phew...
 

hasanejaz88

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Brilliant game, feel for Herta who were brilliant themselves.

Lewandowski incredible, Muller's assist for his third, and overall performance, was great as well.

Really bad penalty to give by Mittelsdat, who created Herta's third with a great cross minutes before.
 

Blackwidow

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Bayern seems to do some transfer business in the next hours...

Marc Roca is already announced - Douglas Costa on loan for a year, Choupo-Mouteng for 2 year, Sarr from Marseille - whereas Cuisance could be loaned to Marseille and Zirkzee loaned to Feynoord. Martinez probably staying.

Nothing expensive or crazy - but enough to get more depth into the squad.
 

Acrobat7

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Bayern seems to do some transfer business in the next hours...

Marc Roca is already announced - Douglas Costa on loan for a year, Choupo-Mouteng for 2 year, Sarr from Marseille - whereas Cuisance could be loaned to Marseille and Zirkzee loaned to Feynoord. Martinez probably staying.

Nothing expensive or crazy - but enough to get more depth into the squad.
I am afraid Costa could be a disturbance should he not get too much game time. He didn’t leave on the best terms either.
And I keep forgetting they signed Kouassi as well.
 

do.ob

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It seems that according to RMC and Bild the big Hertha club is about to loan out Gouendouzi for a year, impressive capture for what is essentially still a midtable club until proven otherwise. On the flipside Bild reports that this opens the door for Arne Maier to be loaned out to Bielefeld. It's unfortunate that neither he nor Stark could deliver after winning their Fritz Walter medals. The latter especially was supposed to fill the post Hummels/Boateng void in DIE MANNSCHAFT.
 

PedroMendez

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It seems that according to RMC and Bild the big Hertha club is about to loan out Gouendouzi for a year, impressive capture for what is essentially still a midtable club until proven otherwise. On the flipside Bild reports that this opens the door for Arne Maier to be loaned out to Bielefeld. It's unfortunate that neither he nor Stark could deliver after winning their Fritz Walter medals. The latter especially was supposed to fill the post Hummels/Boateng void in DIE MANNSCHAFT.
I guess its a good match considering that so far Guendouzi is a mid table player with attitude problems. At least they don't buy him.
 

do.ob

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Since it's Bild we have to take this with a grain of salt, but even the fact that it's sort of believable tells a lot about the club's current state.

I guess its a good match considering that so far Guendouzi is a mid table player with attitude problems. At least they don't buy him.
Sure, he hasn't done that well for Arsenal, but he should still be able to do a lot for Hertha and given that it's a loan they don't even risk a lot.
 

Cheimoon

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Since it's Bild we have to take this with a grain of salt, but the fact that it's sort of believable tells a lot about the club's current state.
So, erm, he basically costs Hoffenheim no more than a minimum wage? And Schalke pays wages for a player they can't play. I didn't know Hoffenheim was skint and Schalke was swimming in it!
 

do.ob

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So, erm, he basically costs Hoffenheim no more than a minimum wage? And Schalke pays wages for a player they can't play. I didn't know Hoffenheim was skint and Schalke was swimming in it!
Assuming that this is true: It looks like Rudy is so desperate to leave and Schalke so desperate to save €3m on wages that both are willing to get absolutely fleeced by Hoffenheim. I mean I get that no one is going to pay Rudy €6m p.a. but you would expect at least something like a €2m (or whatever wage would represent market value for him) contribution from Hoffenheim. Not to mention that Schalke are gifting him to a team that's actually miles better than them at the moment, if he can help Hoffenheim he should be able to help them as well.
His replacement as R(W)B is some 20 year old who spent the last half year at Barnsley fighting relegation in the Championship, it's absolutely mental.
 

Cheimoon

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Assuming that this is true: It looks like Rudy is so desperate to leave and Schalke so desperate to save €3m on wages that both are willing to get absolutely fleeced by Hoffenheim. I mean I get that no one is going to pay Rudy €6m p.a. but you would expect at least something like a €2m (or whatever wage would represent market value for him) contribution from Hoffenheim. Not to mention that Schalke are gifting him to a team that's actually miles better than them at the moment, if he can help Hoffenheim he should be able to help them as well.
His replacement as R(W)B is some 20 year old who spent the last half year at Barnsley fighting relegation in the Championship, it's absolutely mental.
I have no idea how good Rudy is, but exactly, this makes no sense anywhere except if Schalke are absolutely desperate to get as many costs off their books as possible. Baum must be looking at the fine print in his contract to see if he can still get out. He can only damage his reputation in this scenario.
 

do.ob

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So now that the window has passed:

Bayern seem to have addressed a lot of their depth issues.

Dortmund did their business early.

Leipzig: this is perhaps a lesson for all the people who thought of them as the great hope of challenging Bayern. Lost their first choice attack in Werner and Schick, brought in Sörloth and Hwang, loaned Kluivert. On paper Nagelsmann might wonder whether he's still in Hoffenheim, though in reality he will make it work.

Gladbach: keeping their squad together while loaning two promising options has to be considered a good window for them under these circumstances.

Leverkusen: Trainwreck. Lost their only two consistent attacking players in Havertz and Volland, only brought in Schick as a replacement. Apparently tried to panic-loan Rashica but failed. They better hope that their only other signing, Arias, turns into Hakimi to compensate.
Arguably already started paying the bill with three draws and just two goals in from their opening three games.

Wolfsburg brought Maxi Philipp back to Bundesliga on a loan. Not a top player, but he was pretty good while Dortmund were a functioning team under Bosz. Maybe Leverkusen should've loaned him.

Schalke: Yep. fecked.

Bremen: Somehow ended up keeping Rashica, probably not so great for their finances, but could be a huge step in staying clear of relegation worries.
 
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GlasgowCeltic

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Would’ve liked to see Bayern loan in an Eriksen or Dele type to support Muller/replace Coutinho
 

2ndTouch

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So now that the window has passed:

Bayern seem to have addressed a lot of their depth issues.
Pretty good window from us, it might even be a truly fantastic one, depending on how guys like Nianzou or Roca develop. We even got ourselves a new Tiago in the dying minutes of the window, am happy :D

Dortmund did their business early.
And not a single Schulz among your signings:(

Leipzig: this is perhaps a lesson for all the people who thought of them as the great hope of challenging Bayern. Lost their first choice attack in Werner and Schick, brought in Sörloth and Hwang, loaned Kluivert. On paper Nagelsmann might wonder whether he's still in Hoffenheim, though in reality he will make it work.
Upa is still there, and they have quite a few quality options for their wings. That b-tec Haaland just needs to reach Dost levels, and they'll be fine. Expect them to defend their 3rd place.


Gladbach: keeping their squad together while loaning two promising options has to be considered a good window for them under these circumstances.
Yes, not losing one of their key players is actually quite an achievement for them. Think they've hit their ceiling, though.

Leverkusen: Trainwreck. Lost their only two consistent attacking players in Havertz and Volland, only brought in Schick as a replacement. Apparently tried to panic-loan Rashica but failed. They better hope that their only other signing, Arias, turns into Hakimi to compensate.
Arguably already started paying the bill with three draws and just two goals in from their opening three games.
Wolfsburg brought Maxi Philipp back to Bundesliga on a loan. Not a top player, but he was pretty good while Dortmund were a functioning team under Bosz. Maybe Leverkusen should've loaned him.
I think they'll be fine. They'll continue to ply their plastic trade in pursuit of unremarkable EL glory as if nothing happened. Schick is more efficient than Volland, Havertz' contributions can be collectively made up for by Demirbay, Wirtz and Amiri.

Schalke: Yep. fecked.
Doesn't look good for them, but there's a lot of dross swirling around this year

Bremen: Somehow ended up keeping Rashica, probably not so great for their finances, but could be a huge step in staying clear of relegation worries.
Yeah, the Kohfeldt-Cult might live on and prosper
 

do.ob

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And not a single Schulz among your signings:(
It's too early to tell, but Meunier is kind of looking that way.

Upa is still there, and they have quite a few quality options for their wings. That b-tec Haaland just needs to reach Dost levels, and they'll be fine. Expect them to defend their 3rd place.
They have just made the CL semi, Nagelsmann is as good a coach as they can ever hope to have, there were a ton of bargains to be had. Now was the time to prove that they are more than Leverkusen 2.0, a glorified advertising board that has no ambition beyond making top four for cost-efficient exposure.


I think they'll be fine. They'll continue to ply their plastic trade in pursuit of unremarkable EL glory as if nothing happened. Schick is more efficient than Volland, Havertz' contributions can be collectively made up for by Demirbay, Wirtz and Amiri.
As far as I know both their division head and Bosz spoke about trying to win titles. Last season they made massive investments by their standards, they have a built a squad that in many ways (especially depth) has a good chance to finish top 4 and to me it feels like they have just downgraded to top 6 by not putting on the finishing touches.
 

uamini

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It seems that according to RMC and Bild the big Hertha club is about to loan out Gouendouzi for a year, impressive capture for what is essentially still a midtable club until proven otherwise. On the flipside Bild reports that this opens the door for Arne Maier to be loaned out to Bielefeld. It's unfortunate that neither he nor Stark could deliver after winning their Fritz Walter medals. The latter especially was supposed to fill the post Hummels/Boateng void in DIE MANNSCHAFT.
Stark is a painfully mediocre player; I really don't understand why he keeps getting invited to the national team. Torunarigha would be a much better choice for that if he could avoid getting injured so often.

Overall it was a slightly disappointing transfer window finale for us but I think it's wise to not force the issue and go for loans instead if the deals they were hoping for didn't pan out.
They essentially swapped Rekik for a younger Alderete (+a bit of cash), loaned out Maier so he can get some playing time and got back Löwen who'll be a substitute at best.
Guendouzi should help the team a lot, even if it's only for one season. And if they really do manage to sign Götze then that adds even more options.

Overall it's not a bad lineup:
A-Team: Schwolow - Mittelstädt, Torunarigha, Boyata, Zeefuik - Guendouzi, Tousart, Darida - Cunha, Cordoba, Lukebakio
B-Team: Jarstein - Plattenhardt, Alderete, Stark, Pekarik - Ascacibar, Löwen, Dilrosun, Leckie - Piatek, Redan

That's a pretty deep squad for a mid-table club and I could see them challenge for a Europa League spot this season.
 

2ndTouch

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They have just made the CL semi, Nagelsmann is as good a coach as they can ever hope to have, there were a ton of bargains to be had. Now was the time to prove that they are more than Leverkusen 2.0, a glorified advertising board that has no ambition beyond making top four for cost-efficient exposure.
Didn't they also shell out 18m for the Croatian CB kid, Gvardiol? Red Bull always run their operations with money/reach-ratio in mind, expecting them to go on an outrageous spending haul is unrealistic


As far as I know both their division head and Bosz spoke about trying to win titles. Last season they made massive investments by their standards, they have a built a squad that in many ways (especially depth) has a good chance to finish top 4 and to me it feels like they have just downgraded to top 6 by not putting on the finishing touches.
JJonahJamison.gif followed by MJ.gif
 

do.ob

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Didn't they also shell out 18m for the Croatian CB kid, Gvardiol? Red Bull always run their operations with money/reach-ratio in mind, expecting them to go on an outrageous spending haul is unrealistic
Apparently he won't join until next season.
Since RB is ultimately still a company that has to follow business logic I never expected anything else from them, but the people who think they are going to pose a challenge to Bayern surely won't believe they can do so by being outspent by round about €300m-€400m annually, relying on value transfers from "obscure" leagues.
 

Zehner

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As far as I know both their division head and Bosz spoke about trying to win titles. Last season they made massive investments by their standards, they have a built a squad that in many ways (especially depth) has a good chance to finish top 4 and to me it feels like they have just downgraded to top 6 by not putting on the finishing touches.
Yes, Bosz openly demanded further attackers but obviously didn't get his way. Carro was also very aggressive in his communication and claimed that we want to win titles but I guess he either referred to a long term vision or Corona made him eat his words. I don't think we'll make top four this season. In all honesty, many players just don't have the quality for that. Bellarabi, Bailey, Amiri, Wendell, the Benders, Weiser, Baumgartlinger, Dragovic, Jedvaj and more are average at best, some (first and foremost Bellarabi) downright atrocious and still they'll be integral parts of the team this season. And Demirbay is a joke of a record signing. Such a weird transfer window. Some great deals (Havertz, Schick for Volland, Arias) followed by atrocious actions (failure to get Rashica, failure to sell Jedvaj, Wendell, Dragovic and Alario). I'm just glad they failed at signing Kolasinac and Draxler. Those would've been nails in the coffin.

So I've got no real ambitions for this season. I'm primarily hoping Paulinho, Diaby, Palacios, Tapsoba and Wirtz (continue to) do well so that we're in a significantly better position come next season.
 

Cheimoon

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Yes, Bosz openly demanded further attackers but obviously didn't get his way. Carro was also very aggressive in his communication and claimed that we want to win titles but I guess he either referred to a long term vision or Corona made him eat his words. I don't think we'll make top four this season. In all honesty, many players just don't have the quality for that. Bellarabi, Bailey, Amiri, Wendell, the Benders, Weiser, Baumgartlinger, Dragovic, Jedvaj and more are average at best, some (first and foremost Bellarabi) downright atrocious and still they'll be integral parts of the team this season. And Demirbay is a joke of a record signing. Such a weird transfer window. Some great deals (Havertz, Schick for Volland, Arias) followed by atrocious actions (failure to get Rashica, failure to sell Jedvaj, Wendell, Dragovic and Alario). I'm just glad they failed at signing Kolasinac and Draxler. Those would've been nails in the coffin.

So I've got no real ambitions for this season. I'm primarily hoping Paulinho, Diaby, Palacios, Tapsoba and Wirtz (continue to) do well so that we're in a significantly better position come next season.
What's your opinion on Bosz? Is he doing a good job at Leverkusen, and do you enjoy the football he has you guys play?
 

do.ob

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Yes, Bosz openly demanded further attackers but obviously didn't get his way. Carro was also very aggressive in his communication and claimed that we want to win titles but I guess he either referred to a long term vision or Corona made him eat his words. I don't think we'll make top four this season. In all honesty, many players just don't have the quality for that. Bellarabi, Bailey, Amiri, Wendell, the Benders, Weiser, Baumgartlinger, Dragovic, Jedvaj and more are average at best, some (first and foremost Bellarabi) downright atrocious and still they'll be integral parts of the team this season. And Demirbay is a joke of a record signing. Such a weird transfer window. Some great deals (Havertz, Schick for Volland, Arias) followed by atrocious actions (failure to get Rashica, failure to sell Jedvaj, Wendell, Dragovic and Alario). I'm just glad they failed at signing Kolasinac and Draxler. Those would've been nails in the coffin.

So I've got no real ambitions for this season. I'm primarily hoping Paulinho, Diaby, Palacios, Tapsoba and Wirtz (continue to) do well so that we're in a significantly better position come next season.
I think most of those players are actually decent if your ambition is "just" top 4. Like Diaby and even Bellarabi, as frustrating as his decision making may be, are decent wide players. What the squad really lacks is another smart and direct attacking midfielder though, who makes the right runs and is efficient inside the box. Someone who Bellarabi and Diaby can pass the ball to instead of trying to dribble the ball into goal. Rashica or even Philipp (if his previous games under Bosz are anything to go by) could have been that player potentially. On loan even.
Rashica on loan and an actual L(W)B and I probably would've favoured Leverkusen over Gladbach, given I expect the latter to drop some points because of their CL fixtures.
 

Zehner

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What's your opinion on Bosz? Is he doing a good job at Leverkusen, and do you enjoy the football he has you guys play?
I'm a huge fan. In his first season, we played the best football I've seen from us hands down. It was brillant possession football. But he needs the right players for it. Especially Brandt's departure hit us very hard. Last season was still good but not on the same level.

However, I think he could've trust some players more, notably Paulinho (who still had some very good games under him) and Palacios.

I think most of those players are actually decent if your ambition is "just" top 4. Like Diaby and even Bellarabi, as frustrating as his decision making may be, are decent wide players. What the squad really lacks is another smart and direct attacking midfielder though, who makes the right runs and is efficient inside the box. Someone who Bellarabi and Diaby can pass the ball to instead of trying to dribble the ball into goal. Rashica or even Philipp (if his previous games under Bosz are anything to go by) could have been that player potentially. On loan even.
Rashica on loan and an actual L(W)B and I probably would've favoured Leverkusen over Gladbach, given I expect the latter to drop some points because of their CL fixtures.
I don't know if you've watched many games of us in recent years but Bellarabi is truly awful. He also occasionally has four or five very good games in a row, he usually keeps it simple then. My experience is that people who don't really follow Leverkusen games live are usually surprised how poor his decision making actually is. His match against Stuttgart was one of the worst I've ever seen. He had 57% passing accuracy, missed the ball five meters before the goal line, then gifted the opponent the free kick that lead to the equalizer before grabbing his opponent in the face red worthy. Honestly, he was so bad that I believe just putting a winger who does the basics right most of the time would've made the difference between a 3:0 win and the 1:1 it ended on. I recently read he scored only 4 goals from over 50 shots last season. There's probably no player underperforming his xG like Bellarabi on top of his bad decisions. I mean, we were pretty bad against Stuttgart and still managed to create enough great chances for 3 or 4 goals. But if you see how many counters we gifted away because of Bellarabi making a bad decision, you start to see why a decent RW would be so important.
 

Cheimoon

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I'm a huge fan. In his first season, we played the best football I've seen from us hands down. It was brillant possession football. But he needs the right players for it. Especially Brandt's departure hit us very hard. Last season was still good but not on the same level.

However, I think he could've trust some players more, notably Paulinho (who still had some very good games under him) and Palacios.
Nice - thanks. I kinda like him, and more generally I always hope coaches with his kind of style/approach do well.
 

do.ob

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I don't know if you've watched many games of us in recent years but Bellarabi is truly awful. He also occasionally has four or five very good games in a row, he usually keeps it simple then. My experience is that people who don't really follow Leverkusen games live are usually surprised how poor his decision making actually is. His match against Stuttgart was one of the worst I've ever seen. He had 57% passing accuracy, missed the ball five meters before the goal line, then gifted the opponent the free kick that lead to the equalizer before grabbing his opponent in the face red worthy. Honestly, he was so bad that I believe just putting a winger who does the basics right most of the time would've made the difference between a 3:0 win and the 1:1 it ended on. I recently read he scored only 4 goals from over 50 shots last season. There's probably no player underperforming his xG like Bellarabi on top of his bad decisions. I mean, we were pretty bad against Stuttgart and still managed to create enough great chances for 3 or 4 goals. But if you see how many counters we gifted away because of Bellarabi making a bad decision, you start to see why a decent RW would be so important.
Obviously you have seen more of him than me, but I'm quite aware of how aweful his decision making is. The thing is that his G+A/90 performance is still quite good. In terms of xA/90 he's actually Leverkusen's most productive player for three seasons going now, for the first three games of this one as well. I have no doubt that he wears you down as a supporter, but realistically speaking what kind of wide player can Leverkusen afford? It's either someone who keeps it simple, but who can't dribble well enough to create space or it's someone like Bellarabi who can dribble well, but is inconsistent with his decision making. Someone who can do both is basically worth upwards of €40m by definition and thus out of reach. I think the most common setup these days is that you have two dribblers out wide and two efficient players as #9 and #9.5/#10, who leverage the space and momentum created by dribblers into something tangible.
Even Bayern have this dilemma to some extend, Coman is a bit like the rich man's Bellarabi, Costa as well, whereas with Perisic they opted for someone who is efficient, but doesn't really dribble.
 
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Zehner

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Obviously you have seen more of him than me, but I'm quite aware of how aweful his decision making is. The thing is that his G+A/90 performance is still quite good. In terms of xA/90 he's actually Leverkusen's most productive player for three seasons going now, for the first three games of this one as well. I have no doubt that he wears you down as a supporter, but realistically speaking what kind of wide player can Leverkusen afford? It's either someone who keeps it simple, but who can't dribble well enough to create space or it's someone like Bellarabi who can dribble well, but is inconsistent with his decision making. Someone who can do both is basically worth upwards of €40m by definition and thus out of reach. I think the most common setup these days is that you have two dribblers out wide and two efficient players as #9 and #9.5/#10, who leverage the space and momentum created by dribblers into something tangible.
Even Bayern have this dilemma to some extend, Coman is a bit like the rich man's Bellarabi, Costa as well, whereas with Perisic they opted for someone who is efficient, but doesn't really dribble.
I don't think you should put too much emphasis on such stats. Most of the time in the Bundesliga, we're the superior team and creating more chances than the opponent. A player with as much game time as Bellarabi will naturally get assists and goals, especially if he's trying as much es he does. It's been the same with Volland to a lesser extent. He was our top scorer but that was primarily due to his position.

That being said, I don't really think that Coman is a rich man's Bellarabi. I think Diaby is a far better comparison. Both very, very good in one on ones, technically strong, incredibly fast but with flawed decision making. But Bellarabi.. he makes decisions you can't get your head around. Leaves you in utter disbelief. Last game, there were three or four occasions when my pulse went up because we won the ball in a dangerous area just to realize it's Bellarabi on the ball. Didn't even care after that and was proven right again and again. He just refuses to learn, commits the same mistakes game after game. The equalizer has happened at least 10 times during his time with us. Honestly, I've never seen a player who makes you laugh in front of the screen like Bellarabi does. It's unreal. He's not even a good dribbler anymore. Yes, he still scores his goals and assists and if that wasn't the case there's no chance he'd be a professional anymore. But I'd say he's easily the worst player to get regular games at one of the top 5 Bundesliga teams.
 

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The annoyance I feel when I hear Löw speak these days is borderline pathologic at this point. Seeing Podolski with a mic, standing there like a school boy, makes it even worse.
 

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The annoyance I feel when I hear Löw speak these days is borderline pathologic at this point. Seeing Podolski with a mic, standing there like a school boy, makes it even worse.
He really should have stepped down long ago. There is just no way a coach can reach a team and stay fresh after more than 10 years.
(Except for Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger I know of no coach, who managed that.)

But at least Löw did accomplish a lot. He's stayed too long in the job - who can blame him with that pay? - but I would stay as long as possible in the natonal team coaching job, too. He'll never get a better job.

Bierhoff on the other hand. I really don't know what he's done for the DFB, except book some Hotels of doubtful quality, cost money and give cringeworthy interviews. Sammer accomplished far more for German soccer than Bierhoff in far less time at the DFB.
 

strongwalker

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He really should have stepped down long ago. There is just no way a coach can reach a team and stay fresh after more than 10 years.
(Except for Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger I know of no coach, who managed that.)

But at least Löw did accomplish a lot. He's stayed too long in the job - who can blame him with that pay? - but I would stay as long as possible in the natonal team coaching job, too. He'll never get a better job.

Bierhoff on the other hand. I really don't know what he's done for the DFB, except book some Hotels of doubtful quality, cost money and give cringeworthy interviews. Sammer accomplished far more for German soccer than Bierhoff in far less time at the DFB.
Bierhoff is an accountant with the charisma of a shampoo model, the moral compass of a mafia capo, and the wits of a shampoo bottle. Probably the next head of DFB with that set of qualificarions.
As of coaches who can do their thing for a long time with one team with some success, this is a lot easier coaching a national squad for lack of daily routine, still I think Löw may have missed the point in time to go out unscratched, he or his small-town mindset doesn't really seem to be in tune with the current player generation any more. True there are quality gaps between certain team parts but the quality existing should bring better results. Also the overhasty cutting of Müller, Hummels and Boateng for players who haven't proven themselves yet at the top level may have hurt his position.

I agree about Sir Alec and Wenger but you forgot Rehagel and Streich. I do think that many of the modern style coaches have the potential to succeed with one team for a long time, those that combine brilliant tactics with matched people and motivational skills. On that scale, I rate Nagelsmann or Flicck very high, also Tuchel. Klopp just a tad bit below that based on what happened in his later BVB days where he clearly lost contact to the team. Maybe he learned from it. I love Pep but I think his way of micromanagement may tire the teams as well.

Germany is actually blessed with a brilliant set of coaches currently in their prime, sooner or later the DFB absolutely has to get one of them for the national squad.
 
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Zehner

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Bierhoff is an accountant with the charisma of a shampoo model, the moral compass of a mafia capo, and the wits of a shampoo bottle. Probably the next head of DFB with that set of qualificarions.
As of coaches who can do their thing for a long time with one team with some success, this is a lot easier coaching a national squad for lack of daily routine, still I think Löw may have missed the point in time to go out unscratched, he or his small-town mindset doesn't really seem to be in tune with the current player generation any more. True there are quality gaps between certain team parts but the quality existing should bring better results. Also the overhasty cutting of Müller, Hummels and Boateng for players who haven't proven themselves yet at the top level may have hurt his position.

I agree about Sir Alec and Wenger but you forgot Rehagel and Streich. I do think that many of the modern style coaches have the potential to succeed with one team for a long time, those that combine brilliant tactics with matched people and motivational skills. On that scale, I rate Nagelsmann or Flicck very high, also Tuchel. Klopp just a tad bit below that based on what happened in his later BVB days where he clearly lost contact to the team. Maybe he learned from it. I love Pep but I think his way of micromanagement may tire the teams as well.

Germany is actually blessed with a brilliant set of coaches currently in their prime, sooner or later the DFB absolutely has to get one of them for the national squad.
I think Klopp's last season at the BVB is perceived very wrongly in general. First and foremost, Dortmund went through a result crisis. It had nothing to do with the manager but with bad luck. Here's a good article on that. Only the first few paragraphs are interesting for this topic although the whole article is worth a read.

But yes, especially Flick seems predestined for the position as national coach. However, he's just started his career as a club head coach. Tuchel and Nagelsmann have far too much less to prove to take the step back and take over the German team and Klopp doesn't look like he's going anywhere anytime soon. So I don't think those guys are available for the DFB short to midterm. There don't seem to be many alternatives to Löw right now.
 

PedroMendez

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Germany is actually blessed with a brilliant set of coaches currently in their prime, sooner or later the DFB absolutely has to get one of them for the national squad.
I think many people running the DFB know that they'll never ever get a job like that anywhere else and there is nobody who could kick them out. Löw isn't exactly young, but he hasn't shown any fatigue. I could easily see him stay there till his retirement. They are holding on to their seats for their dear life. It was probably never different, but I have to gag when I read who is in the DFB Präsidium. Its the German version of old-boy-networks. Its hard for me to imagine that they'd pick someone who could threaten their grip on all the pork. The (public) media is also so deep up their ass, that they probably need to murder someone to get some pressure.
 

do.ob

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Bierhoff is an accountant with the charisma of a shampoo model, the moral compass of a mafia capo, and the wits of a shampoo bottle. Probably the next head of DFB with that set of qualificarions.
As of coaches who can do their thing for a long time with one team with some success, this is a lot easier coaching a national squad for lack of daily routine, still I think Löw may have missed the point in time to go out unscratched, he or his small-town mindset doesn't really seem to be in tune with the current player generation any more. True there are quality gaps between certain team parts but the quality existing should bring better results. Also the overhasty cutting of Müller, Hummels and Boateng for players who haven't proven themselves yet at the top level may have hurt his position.

I agree about Sir Alec and Wenger but you forgot Rehagel and Streich. I do think that many of the modern style coaches have the potential to succeed with one team for a long time, those that combine brilliant tactics with matched people and motivational skills. On that scale, I rate Nagelsmann or Flicck very high, also Tuchel. Klopp just a tad bit below that based on what happened in his later BVB days where he clearly lost contact to the team. Maybe he learned from it. I love Pep but I think his way of micromanagement may tire the teams as well.


Germany is actually blessed with a brilliant set of coaches currently in their prime, sooner or later the DFB absolutely has to get one of them for the national squad.
To be honest I'd actually claim the exact opposite of the bolded part:

Tuchel has had three professional clubs, judging by the quotes I've seen from Leonardo he's had a falling out with the management of all three of them, at Dortmund he caused deep rifts in the dressing room as well. He's a great tactician, but he'd be about the last coach I could see grow old on his post.

Flick has had less than one season at Bayern, there really is no telling how well he will do long term.

Nagelsmann had his 3.5 year stint at Hoffenheim, but they kind of sold half their squad each year, it'll be interesting to see how well he does in a more stable environment as well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was grating on his players, too. He seems as detail obsessed as anyone and some of his statements are so overambitious/edgy that I wouldn't be surprised if players get tired of him eventually. Not to mention how much of an careerist he is, the more successful he is at his current job the more he would probably long for a new challenge.

Klopp is the literal opposite. He stayed 7 years at Mainz, 7 years at Dortmund and is 5 years, with a contract for another 4, into the Liverpool job. Even at the end of his time at Dortmund he turned things around himself, if the club was richer at the time they probably would have kept him and overhauled the squad.


And while Boateng, Müller and Hummels made Löw eat his words in a lot of people's eyes, even now I wouldn't necessarily call it a wrong decision:

Boateng is 32 years old, his body seems to be in decline, while he was still playing for Germany he was struggling quite a bit with injuries. He's not someone to rely on.

Müller ist doing great for Bayern, but there are two versions of him: the Heynckes, Pep and Flick version and the Ancelotti, Kovac and late stage Löw version. Now of course on paper you'd still rather have him in the squad than not have him, but given how well he's doing at club level you would never hear the end of it if he didn't start. I can understand why Löw doesn't want to have Havertz, Werner, Brandt or whomever plays subjected to constant comparisons with a player that doesn't exist for DIE MANNSCHAFT.

Hummels, on the sporting side, should be included. He seems to have no fitness issues, ever since Löw axed him he's been playing some of the best football of his career and he's a shoe in for the central role of a back three. However as far as I can tell he's also a bit of an opinionated twat and there were reports of some cultural conflicts within the team in 2018, I could easily see him play his part in that and in that case I can see why Löw would rather leave him at home. Given his age he, too, doesn't have much a long term future either.
 

Lagger

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Müller ist doing great for Bayern, but there are two versions of him: the Heynckes, Pep and Flick version and the Ancelotti, Kovac and late stage Löw version. Now of course on paper you'd still rather have him in the squad than not have him, but given how well he's doing at club level you would never hear the end of it if he didn't start. I can understand why Löw doesn't want to have Havertz, Werner, Brandt or whomever plays subjected to constant comparisons with a player that doesn't exist for DIE MANNSCHAFT.
Müller's performances fluctuating with his managers is probably more of a statement of the quality of those managers than Müller's. We know he's got his particular playstyle and depends on his freedom, but if you don't play him to his strengths, don't expect him to perform. That's not really on Müller, that's on the manager picking the wrong tool for the wrong job. You wouldn't put Neuer in midfield and then expect him to outshine everyone else there, why try to force Müller into a position he's wasted on and then complain that he doesn't perform?

I know you didn't say that, but I don't think him not getting callups and/or underperforming under certain coaches is indicative of his potential to help a team.
 

do.ob

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Müller's performances fluctuating with his managers is probably more of a statement of the quality of those managers than Müller's. We know he's got his particular playstyle and depends on his freedom, but if you don't play him to his strengths, don't expect him to perform. That's not really on Müller, that's on the manager picking the wrong tool for the wrong job. You wouldn't put Neuer in midfield and then expect him to outshine everyone else there, why try to force Müller into a position he's wasted on and then complain that he doesn't perform?

I know you didn't say that, but I don't think him not getting callups and/or underperforming under certain coaches is indicative of his potential to help a team.
Well his last year or so under Löw was a pretty good indicator of how much he could help Löw's team. If they were playing a well drilled possession game I'd be all for Müller returning. But they aren't and probably won't in the future either as long as there isn't a new coach.