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Germany at World Cup 2014

Mali_Zeus

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The generation that is praised so much ain't the Schweinsteiger and Lahm generation - Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Mertesacker and Podolski are the leftovers of the generation before. And how old are the others. The oldest of the ones that should be concerned are the ones born 88 or even 90. They are 24 or 25 and just came out of talent age...

I guess we can talk about this in Qatar in 2022 again...
With Low still at the helm? :)

Just to correct myself, if we are not talking about that and that generation we are talking about Germany constantly having great players and great teams but not going all the way and not winning a major trophy since 1996.
 

Blackwidow

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With Low still at the helm? :)

Just to correct myself, if we are not talking about that and that generation we are talking about Germany constantly having great players and great teams but not going all the way and not winning a major trophy since 1996.
I do not see them having a really good generation since then. Now is the first time. Tell me about the German players that all big international clubs wanted to have since then...
 

Mali_Zeus

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I do not see them having a really good generation since then. Now is the first time. Tell me about the German players that all big international clubs wanted to have since then...
Just wanted to say that now, as was in 2012 and in 2010, is a big oportunity to go all the way given the great squad Germany has. Sure, there has been a lots of different teams since 1996 but since 2006 when Low took over Germany should have won a major title.
 

maze

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it's not about what they may have achieved in recent matches, let alone whole tourneys. it's about what they did not achieve, regarding the hilarious amount of talent and squad depth. feck their "got out quite unluckily against italy in the semis" type of approach. yet löw and his fellows (adrion, bierhoff, flick) are undisputed and do indeed form kind of a mafia clan of the highest order. dunno what could actually happen to ever breach this wall of halfhearted spirit/approach.
 

Carter99

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So Flick and Löw stated that they will keep Lahm in Midfield.

Those two will never admit a mistake even if they go down with the ship.

That means Boateng (not fit) will play at RB. Khedira is likely fit aswell (well he clearly isnt).

So we likely wont see any change in the formation. Great
 

MikeMango

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So Flick and Löw stated that they will keep Lahm in Midfield.

Those two will never admit a mistake even if they go down with the ship.

That means Boateng (not fit) will play at RB. Khedira is likely fit aswell (well he clearly isnt).

So we likely wont see any change in the formation. Great
could mean that Mustafi starts :smirk:
If you use Lahm as rb, you have to use Schweinsteiger as DM with the most defensive duties. In most cases it's also the position, which requires a lot of running. I'm not sure if he is fit enough to play that position over almost an entire game.
 

Carter99

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could mean that Mustafi starts :smirk:
If you use Lahm as rb, you have to use Schweinsteiger as DM with the most defensive duties. In most cases it's also the position, which requires a lot of running. I'm not sure if he is fit enough to play that position over almost an entire game.

Mustafi was outplayed and caused a goal against Ghana. I doubt he will see more WC time this time around.
 

MikeMango

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Mustafi was outplayed and caused a goal against Ghana. I doubt he will see more WC time this time around.
well yes, he wasn't good. Still, I bet he will get a decent amount of time on the pitch.
I dont really know what I would do if I was our coach. Probably play Großkreutz as rb, Lahm as DM and Schweini in front of Lahm instead of Khedira.
 

Carter99

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well yes, he wasn't good. Still, I bet he will get a decent amount of time on the pitch.
I dont really know what I would do if I was our coach. Probably play Großkreutz as rb, Lahm as DM and Schweini in front of Lahm instead of Khedira.

Its easy. Lahm shouldnt be in Midfield in the first place. He is just okay there.

He is worldclass at RB. Why change a worldclass RB to a decent midfielder?

Play Lahm as RB.

Put Schweinsteiger Khedira Kroos as Central Midfield.
 

Okocha119

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Its easy. Lahm shouldnt be in Midfield in the first place. He is just okay there.

He is worldclass at RB. Why change a worldclass RB to a decent midfielder?
I am wondering that too. Is it because of his injury? Is it because he lacks pace now that he's older? Didn't look like that during his season at Bayern though. Or is he just an egotistical asshole? That's an impression I get sometimes, but I of course don't know him well enough to judge his character. Might be because Löw lacks original ideas, which is why he prefers to copy whatever Bayern does at the moment. If Guardiola says that Lahm is best in the centre and Lahm himself agrees with that, Löw might not have the guts to say otherwise, even if Lahm does nothing for the system he wants to play if he's placed in the centre. It's an odd decision, I have to admit. Though not quite as odd as playing Mustafi ahead of Ginter, Großkreutz and Durm.

I am against the three men centre midfield actually. It's damn usefull when you want to dominate the midfield in a game where that is key. But that won't be the case against the US. If everything goes the predictable way they are going to give up the midfield and focus on the defense like Ghana did, while looking for indvidual mistakes and staying dangerous on the counter. In that case a three men midfield of which only one man has his main duties on the attack is just not necessary. Especially with the three men up front that we have seen the last two games it makes things very difficult, because Kroos literally only has three options against 8+ defensive players and only two of these options can really make deep runs and are known for moving a lot. That position on the wing suits Özil fine when he has the ball and the space to create, but he isn't really known for being a quick winger that can run into the space when being watched by two men. In my oppinion Germany either needs to go back to a 4-2-3-1 or field offensive full backs. This 4-3-3 with centre backs as full backs hasn't been working on the offensive so far. How many chances has Germany been able to create from open play over those two games? Seven maybe? They got double that in their first game at the World Cup four years ago alone. Problem with the 4-2-3-1 is: Who are you going to field next to Kroos? Schweinsteiger didn't work too well for Bayern and Khedira - Kroos just looked absolutely terrible against Cameroon. It's a shame really that both the Benders are out of the World Cup since they would have probably been the perfect partners for Kroos (or Gündogan, wouldn't that have been great? Aaaaah ...) in centre midfield. So if Lahm is going to stay in centre midfield I would actually vote for Lahm - Kroos with probably Götze - Özil - Schürrle behind Müller. This way Löw can follow his centre back fetish and still have a decent amount of options on the attack.
But I guess we are going to stick with that terrible defensive version of a 4-3-3, even against a team that's parking the bus. Well, at least Johan Cruyff likes it.
 

Carter99

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How great is that German 2nd shirt!

Obviously not as beautiful as the French one but feck me, that's decent.


actually most people in Germany hate it.

Have not seen a lot of people wearing it.


Back to Germany. Im still not impressed by the way we play and i think we will go out early. Thats not because im pessimistic but even yesterday we saw the same problems all over again.

Whenever we are pressed or lose the ball in midfield there are HUGE holes on the field and it gets dangerous. Höwedes has been exposed big time yesterday. He will cost us the tourney. Klinsmann knew that and attacked him (well sometimes) with his right side.

We still lack the creativity upfront to create clear goal chances. Löw is criticizing it every game and yet fails to make an improvement. I just hope we dont fall back to that tiki taka holding the ball in midfield forever without creating chances mode.

We are extremely prone for the counter attack. We even saw it yesterday when the US should have scored in the last minute. That just cant happen against such opponents. By all fairness.

If you get run over by the likes of Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnson you are in trouble.

I know we didnt need to go out gunblazing yesterday but still i lacked some creating of chances.

Atleast the Podolski to start project should be over now.

Algeria is a very dangerous team. They love counter attacking and hit you hard with their wingers and Slimani.
 

OutlawGER

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I think our away kit is decent too!

But i hate our home kit. The kit itself is okay, but we are not wearing our traditional black pants. No more "schwarz und weiß". :mad:
 

kolli

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I think our away kit is decent too!

But i hate our home kit. The kit itself is okay, but we are not wearing our traditional black pants. No more "schwarz und weiß". :mad:
This! Same for Spain, yes they are 'La Roja', but it's the same as if United were wearing all red, because we're the Red Devils.
The away kit is great though.
 

MikeMango

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I'm really satisfied.

Well-controlled performance without errors and some nice football.

Schweinsteiger with a good game. He needs to stay in the team instead of Khedira.

Podolski war useless. Against Algeria I hope to see Götze or Schürrle in the starting line up.
 

Inspire

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I'm really satisfied.

Well-controlled performance without errors and some nice football.

Schweinsteiger with a good game. He needs to stay in the team instead of Khedira.

Podolski war useless. Against Algeria I hope to see Götze or Schürrle in the starting line up.
I Höwedes plays i'll turn off my TV - he annoys me everytime I see him playing. I hope for this lineup:

--Götze------Müller-------Özil--
------------kroos--------------
----Schweinsteiger----Lahm----
-xXx--Hummels--Merte--Boateng
--------------Neuer------------
 

Bojan11

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Don't they have any good fullbacks beside Lahm?

Not sure they will win it playing four centre backs and Lahm.
 

Cooksen

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I did bet on Muller being top scorer at 34-1 odds so i am estatic and I am backing the Germans to win as they have the best squad and it its weaknesses are more coverable then other teams weaknesses.
 

slig

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I Höwedes plays i'll turn off my TV - he annoys me everytime I see him playing. I hope for this lineup:

--Götze------Müller-------Özil--
------------kroos--------------
----Schweinsteiger----Lahm----
-xXx--Hummels--Merte--Boateng
--------------Neuer------------
yes! lets play with durm!!! don´t know why löw doesn´t let him play. though no one knows :-/
 

quackattack

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I Höwedes plays i'll turn off my TV - he annoys me everytime I see him playing. I hope for this lineup:

--Götze------Müller-------Özil--
------------kroos--------------
----Schweinsteiger----Lahm----
-xXx--Hummels--Merte--Boateng
--------------Neuer------------
Höwedes isn't fit?
Also, why not use (either) Benders in the middle? probably on par or better than Khedira at the moment (if fit). And I might also be wrong, but isn't Lahm a capable LB as well? (In case they HAVE to play Boateng/Großkreutz at the right).

And yes, Durm please.
 

Inspire

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Höwedes isn't fit?
Also, why not use (either) Benders in the middle? probably on par or better than Khedira at the moment (if fit). And I might also be wrong, but isn't Lahm a capable LB as well? (In case they HAVE to play Boateng/Großkreutz at the right).
Löw said he won't play Lahm again as LB. So he will probably stay in the midfield or maybe as RB. Even if he is one of the best LB in the world.
Both Benders stayed in germany :(
 

Lagger

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Germany aren't winning this tournament. As usual they start impressively but at some point they'll be put in their place by another big nation. While germany has all the players to do it, they don't have the coach to get it done.
Isn't it always like that? Until they bloody do it and then he's suddenly the messiah of all coaches. I'm not saying Germany will win this, but I find it a bit over the top to underappreciate Loew like that.
 

MikeMango

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yes! lets play with durm!!! don´t know why löw doesn´t let him play. though no one knows :-/
I dont really like Höwedes in the starting eleven either. He contributes nothing to our attacks and seemed a little insecure in defense yesterday.
Durm would add more to our attacks. In the friendlies he had really good understanding with Reus and they created a lot.
I'm not sure about his abilities in defense though.

Höwedes is the cautious approach. If we lose a bit attacking-power and gain some in defense, it might be the right choice, especially if you look at the other teams. Most of them are counter-attacking sides and not comfortable when they need to create something against a solid defensive line. So, the approach with Höwedes might be a good move from Löw.

2012 we played a very attacking style and got beat by the first team with solid defense. Spain played also very cautious during their 3 title winning cups.
So, a little bit of caution is maybe what we need as well, if we finally want to win something. Might be not exciting, but more successful. We will see.

Also, I quite like that we are suddenly a threat after corners and freekicks. We've seen some rehearsed variants, like yesterdays goal. It partly due to our 4 cbs. They added arial power in defense, but in attack as well.
 
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Batrider

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They're not as impressive and flashy as 2006-2012 but they still seem to be reasonably clinical. Given that there's no blatant favourite to win the World Cup, it might as well be them. I don't think they're better than Brazil, France, Netherlands or Uruguay with Suarez though but they're probably on par.
 

Balu

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Unless the manager gets it hilariously wrong (like Löw against Italy in 2012), the worldcup knockout stages are in my opinion a lot more about mentality than tactics, at least compared to two-legged CL ties. It's one of the main reasons, why I like Löw being stubborn here with this somewhat wrong looking back four (compared to his constant experimenting in 2012). It's the first time since '96 that I have that feeling of a real German tournament, one about a not perfect team getting the job done anyway. It helps a lot that the attack isn't built around Özil anymore and that 3 man midfield looks like it can fight it out, if playing pretty doesn't work. A few good options on the bench, Müller upfront who'll score important goals if no one else does and a back four that can withstand constant pressure and isn't reliable on keeping the ball (even though they are very good doing it). I expect us to get past Algeria with another mediocre performance and hope that the criticism won't have an effect on Löw's decisions, because I'm sure that team will look great against France, Brazil, Chile in the quarter/seminfinals, if we make it that far.
 

fcbforever

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Unless the manager gets it hilariously wrong (like Löw against Italy in 2012), the worldcup knockout stages are in my opinion a lot more about mentality than tactics, at least compared to two-legged CL ties. It's one of the main reasons, why I like Löw being stubborn here with this somewhat wrong looking back four (compared to his constant experimenting in 2012). It's the first time since '96 that I have that feeling of a real German tournament, one about a not perfect team getting the job done anyway. It helps a lot that the attack isn't built around Özil anymore and that 3 man midfield looks like it can fight it out, if playing pretty doesn't work. A few good options on the bench, Müller upfront who'll score important goals if no one else does and a back four that can withstand constant pressure and isn't reliable on keeping the ball (even though they are very good doing it). I expect us to get past Algeria with another mediocre performance and hope that the criticism won't have an effect on Löw's decisions, because I'm sure that team will look great against France, Brazil, Chile in the quarter/seminfinals, if we make it that far.
Spot on. I have this feeling, too. After all the shiny performances we formerly showed before reaching the semis, now for the first time it seems like this team has the not only the talent but the will to do it. The last two tournaments were won by teams playing rather mediocre but beeing there when it got important. Not the ones battering opponents in the group stages. After all the world cup experiences, I don't give a feck about the group stages as long as it never looks like loosing the control over the game (to be honest, I never had the feeling germany could loose against Ghana: the team just turned up after the 2-1 and did their job).

I don't particularly like Löws setup, but it gives you a lot of control which probably is good in this conditions.
 

Lyricist

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Are you asking if there injured or telling me they are?
Yes, that is the big question (I'm not updated on their medical situation either:P)
Lars got injured in the WC training camp and Sven was injured for weeks prior to the training camp and probably didn't get fit in time. He'd be about fit now I guess but he's never played a huge role...if all are fit he's only 6th choice after Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Gündogan, Khedira, and his brother. Löw took his injury as a reason to axe him just like he did with Gomez. That said, both really were injured for ages.
 

quackattack

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Lars got injured in the WC training camp and Sven was injured for weeks prior to the training camp and probably didn't get fit in time. He'd be about fit now I guess but he's never played a huge role...if all are fit he's only 6th choice after Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Gündogan, Khedira, and his brother. Löw took his injury as a reason to axe him just like he did with Gomez. That said, both really were injured for ages.
Guess it's just one thing to do then, bring up Goretzka:D
 

Blackwidow

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Unless the manager gets it hilariously wrong (like Löw against Italy in 2012), the worldcup knockout stages are in my opinion a lot more about mentality than tactics, at least compared to two-legged CL ties. It's one of the main reasons, why I like Löw being stubborn here with this somewhat wrong looking back four (compared to his constant experimenting in 2012). It's the first time since '96 that I have that feeling of a real German tournament, one about a not perfect team getting the job done anyway. It helps a lot that the attack isn't built around Özil anymore and that 3 man midfield looks like it can fight it out, if playing pretty doesn't work. A few good options on the bench, Müller upfront who'll score important goals if no one else does and a back four that can withstand constant pressure and isn't reliable on keeping the ball (even though they are very good doing it). I expect us to get past Algeria with another mediocre performance and hope that the criticism won't have an effect on Löw's decisions, because I'm sure that team will look great against France, Brazil, Chile in the quarter/seminfinals, if we make it that far.
I think the same.

The only worry I have is that nobody really shows up in the offense but Müller... - but knowing Müller, the longer it stays 0:0 the more probable it is that Müller will score - and the bigger the match the more relieable he is. With Klose I am not so sure - I remember how long it took until he got goal no. 68 to equal Gerd Müller in the goal tally for the German team - that is why I am not so sure if he will be so helpful with the goal record pending.

But - the advantage of this 4-man-back is that the team seems to be really good in set-pieces now something we have not had the recent years. And that it probably is different to score at set-pieces against us...
 

steve9

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I was never a fan of Loew's and Hoewedes is for sure not the perfect left back, he's not even close. But there is one thing I really like about having him on the team: The superiority we have developed at set-pieces. Set-pieces have been our weakness for years. Now we have scored already thrice, and have conceded none. With Hummels, Mertesacker, Boateng, and Hoewedes we have 4 tall guys who can defend headers but also can score. Adding the other ones capable (Schweinsteiger, Klose, Khedira, Mueller) that's a real strength we have got, and that has payed off very well so far.
 

fcbforever

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I was never a fan of Loew's and Hoewedes is for sure not the perfect left back, he's not even close. But there is one thing I really like about having him on the team: The superiority we have developed at set-pieces. Set-pieces have been our weakness for years. Now we have scored already thrice, and have conceded none. With Hummels, Mertesacker, Boateng, and Hoewedes we have 4 tall guys who can defend headers but also can score. Adding the other ones capable (Schweinsteiger, Klose, Khedira, Mueller) that's a real strength we have got, and that has payed off very well so far.
Löw has been stubborn for years about this. Never trained set-pieces, thinking they are no important parts of the game.
As far as I've heard, he changed that now and trained them extensively.
 

Okocha119

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Unless the manager gets it hilariously wrong (like Löw against Italy in 2012), the worldcup knockout stages are in my opinion a lot more about mentality than tactics, at least compared to two-legged CL ties. It's one of the main reasons, why I like Löw being stubborn here with this somewhat wrong looking back four (compared to his constant experimenting in 2012). It's the first time since '96 that I have that feeling of a real German tournament, one about a not perfect team getting the job done anyway. It helps a lot that the attack isn't built around Özil anymore and that 3 man midfield looks like it can fight it out, if playing pretty doesn't work. A few good options on the bench, Müller upfront who'll score important goals if no one else does and a back four that can withstand constant pressure and isn't reliable on keeping the ball (even though they are very good doing it). I expect us to get past Algeria with another mediocre performance and hope that the criticism won't have an effect on Löw's decisions, because I'm sure that team will look great against France, Brazil, Chile in the quarter/seminfinals, if we make it that far.
I actually agree with you there. I think that we'll fare much better with the current set-up if the opposing team isn't just set on defending the entire game but tries to face us in midfield, where we are clearly superior. My only problem regarding that is the lack of pace our full backs have. Both Höwedes and Boateng had a few problems against Beasley and Johnson yesterday. And if that's what they can do, I don't want to see what Alves and Marcello may be capable of.
For the game against Algeria I see pretty much four different possibilities:

1. Algeria play like they did against Belgium (which the players supposedly did not like), analyse the last two games and come up with a a similar tactic. Germany plays exactly like they did the last two games. Germany plays efficiently, resulting in a close win.
2. Pretty much like the first, only Germany lacks in efficency, resulting in the game going to penalties or, in case of individual slip ups, a close Algerian victory.
3. The rumours about Algeria are true and the team doesn't go for the defensive route, but takes Germany head on. In this case they most likely get hammered.
4. Löw changes ups the tactics. This results in a higher scoring game, no matter how Algeria wishes to play, with Germany probably conceding at least one while most likely still winning by at least two goals.

I am kind of afraid of possibility number two. Algeria seems to be quite dangerous on the counter. The reason the last games weren't lost, was because Germany showed the efficency we are known for, which many people thought to be lost. If we don't show that efficency against Algeria, we might be in serious trouble, because, as in the last three games, we probably won't get many chances on goal. So I can definitely say that I'm not happy about playing Algeria. They have two matches to analyse where a defensive team managed to give us trouble, let's see what they'll come up with.

Löw has been stubborn for years about this. Never trained set-pieces, thinking they are no important parts of the game.
As far as I've heard, he changed that now and trained them extensively.
Don't like the approach though. I don't have an inside perspective on the way Löw uses and trains set-pieces, but to the outsider it just seems like they took the lazy way out by putting tall guys into the back four instead of focusing on training corners. A lot of teams still manage to be dangerous at set-pieces while having quick, smaller full backs. And you reall don't need four centre backs to defend corners efficently. Well, one step at a time, I guess.
 

Balu

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They have two matches to analyse where a defensive team managed to give us trouble.
I don't agree with that. The US did feck all, they didn't give us any trouble. We looked dangerous in the beginning and just lacked the intensity to play that way for 90 minutes, mostly because it wasn't necessary to win the game, so we shifted down a few gears, but won it anyway. We lost our concentration in the last minute when the group was long decided, that's it, that's the only time they created something dangerous. Ghana troubled us a lot with their physical approach in midfield in my opinion. They bullied us off the ball. It wasn't a park the bus, counterattack over the whole pitch approach and Schweinsteiger instead of Khedira pretty much solves all the problems against Ghana, which we saw when he came on in that game and in the beginning of the game against the US. Algeria looked dangerous, no doubt, but if they trouble us, it will be for different reasons than Ghana.
 

steve9

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I'm most curious about whether this Germany team can still accellerate their game speed. For most part of their three matches I barely recognized their playing style anymore. Most of the times it was so terribly slowly, it reminded me on TV slow motion. Going forward was usually done by passing ten times around the centre, defensive pressing was only sometimes on, mostly half-hearted. Supporters might say they were just trying to control their matches, but my guess is it was the coaches order to save energy because of the climate.

Granted, Germany was probably the only team in the tournament that had to play all three of their matches in the North of Brazil where it is indeed hot and humid. From now on every reaming match for them would take place in the South of Brazil in a rather European spring-type of climate. But will they be able to find the right gear to speed it up again?
 

Blackwidow

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I'm most curious about whether this Germany team can still accellerate their game speed. For most part of their three matches I barely recognized their playing style anymore. Most of the times it was so terribly slowly, it reminded me on TV slow motion. Going forward was usually done by passing ten times around the centre, defensive pressing was only sometimes on, mostly half-hearted. Supporters might say they were just trying to control their matches, but my guess is it was the coaches order to save energy because of the climate.

Granted, Germany was probably the only team in the tournament that had to play all three of their matches in the North of Brazil where it is indeed hot and humid. From now on every reaming match for them would take place in the South of Brazil in a rather European spring-type of climate. But will they be able to find the right gear to speed it up again?
I think they can. They controlled the matches apart from the Ghana match and you could see in the US match that they had parts in the match in which they initiated a powerplay. (At the beginning of the match, after the break). I think that they play very smart.