It’s annoying how much of a big deal they are making over this yet barely anything was said about that horrible challenge on Greenwood. The penalty call was completely subjective.
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
I think it’s a foul.
But clearly it’s debatable, and it’s not clear and obvious - therefore VAR should not be overruling the decision.
This is actually VAR working as it should.
I’m terms of the offside, it’s offside, and it doesn’t matter by how much, it’s not a goal, and there can be no debate.
Personally I think there should be more allowances given to the attacking team, but those are not the rules by which both teams play by at the moment.
But clearly it’s debatable, and it’s not clear and obvious - therefore VAR should not be overruling the decision.
This is actually VAR working as it should.
I’m terms of the offside, it’s offside, and it doesn’t matter by how much, it’s not a goal, and there can be no debate.
Personally I think there should be more allowances given to the attacking team, but those are not the rules by which both teams play by at the moment.
The frame rate for VAR is 50fps apparently. If you're doing 30kph (easily possible for top players) when the offside is called then between frames you could have travelled nearly 17cm. So to overturn the assistant for the sake of 2 or 3cm is frankly fecking ridiculous.
Edit: And that's if you assume the defender is stationary relative to you. If he was actually stepping up the other way then it could be even further between frames.
Edit: And that's if you assume the defender is stationary relative to you. If he was actually stepping up the other way then it could be even further between frames.
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Not really elation. Relief & glad it didn’t stand, but same elation as a goal..?
More strawmanning. You know that's not what this is about so why are you pretending it is? The people who criticize VAR believe the cost of getting the correct call can be too high. Actually, everybody thinks that; if VAR took 30 minutes to make a call, everyone would be against it. Some people believe the current use of VAR is an acceptable comprise between correct decisions and the flow and feel of the game. I and many others believe the gain (i.e. marginal offside calls) is too small to justify what it does to the flow and passion of the game (pausing to celebrate a goal because it might be ruled off, chalking off goals that not a single person would have complained about before VAR etc.). It's nothing to do with your caricature, which only makes yourself look silly.
Exactly. He contacts the ball at the same time as the shin ffs.
then let’s realise they zaha actually steps into Lindelöf to INITIATE the contact. They cried for 1000 hours over Bruno stepping onto the defender against Villa, well how’s that different?
It's offside Rio
So no one likes VAR for offside decisions which is one of the reasons they brought it in.
And no one likes it for not overturning a referees on all penalty decision as it wasn’t clear & obvious.
Which is VAR working at its best- So perhaps best to bin this idea
And no one likes it for not overturning a referees on all penalty decision as it wasn’t clear & obvious.
Which is VAR working at its best- So perhaps best to bin this idea
I celebrated it as much as Rashford's goal.
And then you talk about caricatures.
But I agree. If the VAR tool 3 centuries for each decision, I would have been against it. I would die first before getting the decision. However, considering that it takes roughly 30 seconds or so, no harm at all from it, and it gives the right decision.
Plus wan bissaka was Swinging his leg to block the cross, god knows where his leg would be in either frame.
I get that offside is offside and it’s meant to be black and white but we’re not able to get that close to black and white imo.
It went for us tonight but I still feel uneasy seeing goals rules out for that.
Bit subjective that
Yeah true, players' legs can definitely swing faster than they can move their entire body in some instances I should think.
For offsides? Not really. It either is or it isn't offside, it has always been like this. Just that the refs back then went with how they felt while now go with how it is.
You keep ignoring the posts about the accuracy or do you think there’s no problem and they get everyone bang on down to the mm
Before VAR, everyone and their mother spent the entire week bemoaning the blatant offside goals that were scored and the perfectly legal goals/chances that were called off. There wasn't a single football fan out there who saw their team concede an offside goal who then used any sort of common sense and moved on with a "ah that's football" type of attitude. We all bitched about blind refs, brown envelopes, corrupt FA/UEFA/FIFA etc to anyone that would listen, which could go on for years and even decades if it was an important game.
The difference between moaning about refs missing a two meter offside and moaning about VAR checking a two centimeter offside is that the latter makes the correct call which makes the game much more fair. Considering what's at stake in today's football I think it's the right decision to make sure things are correct rather than keeping some romantic flaw, however the PL needs to step it up and speed things up in the VAR room.
I don't mind the offsides. What you say is right. They might not be perfect but it is essentially fair - ie the same rules, applied the same, all the time, at both ends and every match.
The rest of VAR is nothing like that.
Yeh the weird thing is I think if VAR is to stay long term it may only be for offsides as that’s where it’s actually most effective
Why don't they have the same hawk eye of Cricket in football. Surely it can be that hard. 
Only 50 pixels per second, is a sham for 2020.
And I also think their should be a margin of error for offsides. You could use Pep's hair to seperate some of these calls.
Only 50 pixels per second, is a sham for 2020.
And I also think their should be a margin of error for offsides. You could use Pep's hair to seperate some of these calls.
I don't think there is any problem with accuracy. I also have yet to see this decision that comes to mm, at worst case is a matter of a few inches. With matches being recorded at 50 frames per second, it means that they can take the image when the ball was released. Within 1 frame (0.02 seconds) the players cannot move much to make any difference, so the stoppage of the match should be very accurate. After all that is simply a problem of camera calibration which is more or less solved. Then all it remains is to draw the lines which any competent person can do, and here we get extremely accurate decisions. Probably not 100% accurate, but very accurate, much better than what the refs can do in real-time.
In addition, the majority of calls are not in these extreme situations of inches, so the accuracy in the vast majority of decisions should be 100%, with a few marginal ones, still being extremely accurate if not perfect.
Because the rest of VAR is making informed subjective decisions. And subjective decisions are well...subjective.
I believe the best way to ensure them are fair, is to do it like the other leagues, where the VAR referee only informs the referee that something fishy has happened. Then the referee checks it and makes the decision himself. In this way, there won't be any 'overruling'.
For whatever reason, EPL thought that they know better than countries that have been experimenting with it for two years. And well, they kind of fecked it up. I hope they change this next season and put the TVs in the stadium with the ref checking the decisions themselves. VAR referee should only make offside decisions, and inform the main referee to check VAR for dubious decisions.
So I have a question.
It's well documented that the accuracy of VAR offsides due to TV camera FPS restrictions is in question. My question is what is the difference between that and goal-line technology?
Obviously the ball can travel at a very fast speed so are the goal line cameras simply shooting at a higher frame rate? If so why can't they just implement new VAR cameras that can slow things down further for offsides? Isn't that just problem solved...
It's well documented that the accuracy of VAR offsides due to TV camera FPS restrictions is in question. My question is what is the difference between that and goal-line technology?
Obviously the ball can travel at a very fast speed so are the goal line cameras simply shooting at a higher frame rate? If so why can't they just implement new VAR cameras that can slow things down further for offsides? Isn't that just problem solved...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gi...ns-overturned-in-their-favour-this-season?amp
It is common knowledge that we have benefited the most from var this season. Ole is a very lucky manager.
I w
I like having lucky managers.
The goal line is a small static place, so they can have sensors all around it to capture what's going on within it (though it still has a tiny error for margin)... Its basically sensor /camera technology within the goal and the ball to measure it
Offsides however can happen anywhere across the pitch and involve various different moving parts. This plus the fact that you cant have sensors on players means that you have to rely on cameras and those stupid lines to sort it out.
I love VAR for offside calls. You'll get some decisions that are so marginal that they end up looking ridiculous, like Ayew's goal. That's the downside.
The upside is no more blatant offside goals allowed and no more legal goals being annulled.
It's pretty obvious the upside far outweighs the downside, but the moaners make a huge deal of the downside while pretending the upside doesn't exist.
What FPS would you need to need to shoot at to accurately determine offside? Has someone figured that out.
No clue.
I think they claim the cameras they have access to have super high FPS but, considering the pictures we see, I think that's bullshit
That's it really. If everyone is complaining about the technical limitation of shooting at 50FPS then surely it would be straightforward to just install cameras that shoot at a much higher FPS.
I think this is the more important debate surrounding offside. The technology has made it clear the rule is outdated.Why don't they have the same hawk eye of Cricket in football. Surely it can be that hard.
Only 50 pixels per second, is a sham for 2020.
And I also think their should be a margin of error for offsides. You could use Pep's hair to seperate some of these calls.
In my opinion, the attacker line shouldn't count the legs, only the defender's. That would give the attacker a small leeway without the need to utilise an arbitrary measure (which would end up in the same original problem, if there was a 50cm leeway, people would complain about 51cm calls).
I dont understand why the whole of England are up in arms about the Palace appeal for Penalty. It wasnt a penalty for goodness sake, he go the ball and it was the follow through that got the man. I am of the opinion that the Martial incident was a m9re credible shout. Oh please, the English and there dramatic need to blow everything out of proportion.
Even more reason to get behind him!
There is a big difference between the Zaha and Martial incident.
Lindelof pretty much took the man and ball at the same time ( I still am not sure which came first) and IMO was a foul and we got lucky that the referee didn't see it again.
The Martial one isn't even a debate, the defender clearly got his foot to the ball before any contact with Martial, that was a good tackle.
At least 2000FPS if you wanted to be accurate to less than a cm.
How are you people still being politically correct? For instance, I cheered last night’s offside hard but swore at the TV when Pukki’s was disallowed against Spurs. Love it when something so nonsensical benefits United, especially when we’re playing well. Just makes everyone hate us.
I dont get people moaning about VAR, Is it cool to lose the league against Chelsea with an offside goal on Drogba of about 1 meter?
Then you’re wrong and I disagree fully. It is not accurate enough due to the angle of the pitch, the speed of the play and the paint lines.
Its make believe football
If we had VAR in that game, your handball goal also would've been ruled out so the result would've been the same.
I don’t get people sticking up for VAR. is. Cool to get relegated due to a made up Guessed 1cm offside?
It doesnt matter what angle is used, the technology is calibrated so its the same result no matter what angle you see